44

Take for example this post. It's the only post by the user that is visible. It was also nearly immediately downvoted (for good reason). However, his "people reached" stat is at 7 (the number of views on his question).

I thought this stat was supposed to only apply to helpful questions. I understand that we would rather overestimate, but really?

Note, I'm pretty sure caching isn't to blame, as I saw the number go from 6 to 7 while at -2. So unless the score part of the script runs at a different time than the view part, caching isn't the problem here.

Is this behavior expected? Probably low priority, but can we fix it?

13
  • 18
    Haven't looked at how this is implemented, but a reasonable guess would seem to be that qualifying posts are cached (or simply never removed), while the view-count is updated in real time. I deleted the post to test this theory (and also because it hurt my eyes), and the count remained constant. [Update: now it's back at 0.]
    – Shog9
    May 9, 2015 at 1:02
  • 11
    Are you implying that the 11 bazillion people I've reached is totally bogus?
    – slugster
    May 9, 2015 at 7:59
  • 99
    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Perhaps when the majority of a user's posts is negatively scored, the stat should be "people annoyed"?
    – yannis
    May 9, 2015 at 9:08
  • 7
    But I love the optimistic view. It makes me feel helpful :P
    – John Odom
    May 9, 2015 at 21:14
  • 10
    If it was supposed to only apply to helpful questions, maybe it would have been called "People helped" ? You can reach people with good or bad informations
    – Soma
    May 10, 2015 at 11:58
  • 6
    That would be good, three stats "people helped", "people annoyed" and "communities annoyed" :P
    – Sammaye
    May 10, 2015 at 18:46
  • @Sammaye: "communities annoyed" - does that translate to "SE's which have banned this person?"
    – Kevin
    May 11, 2015 at 2:02
  • 8
    @Soma: That has been suggested several times (in fact I believe it originally said that) but the consensus is that "people helped" is ultimately going to be a lie no matter how you spin it. Just because I read a SO post (and I read hundreds every day) doesn't mean it "helped" me in the slightest. May 11, 2015 at 2:11
  • 1
    Well, we can keep the "Reached", but negative-score posts shouldn't be taken into account!
    – Docteur
    May 11, 2015 at 2:49
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit I couldn't agree more! Those posts didn't help, but you was reached ;)
    – Soma
    May 11, 2015 at 11:52
  • @Docteur Post with negative score still reaches people. The question could be downvoted on plenty reasons, but answers might still be very helpful
    – Soma
    May 11, 2015 at 11:52
  • @Soma, please see my answer - we would keep the same system for answers, just add some more calculations for the questions :-)
    – Docteur
    May 11, 2015 at 11:54
  • @Yan lol, should be proposed! :D
    – nicael
    May 11, 2015 at 21:15

2 Answers 2

2

Either way it's an estimation, which by the very definition of an estimation, is never accurate.

We could consider the number of upvotes and downvotes as the general opinion and extrapolate that to estimate the opinion of voters. If an item had 4 upvotes and 6 downvotes, we can estimate that 40% of voters thought the item was helpful, and extrapolate that to a positive impact on 40% of viewers.

This doesn't account for people who considered voting for the question and deliberately decided it didn't merit a up nor downvote, which is indistinguishable from members who viewed the post and realized it didn't apply to their problem. We could try to resolve this by considering views for members who did not vote, but that would also includes a large number of members who typically don't vote at all, so this count would be overly large.

You could try to compare the question to other questions on SO using some sort of statistical analysis based on number of views and up/down votes. The goal would be to try and determine if question is being viewed in cases where it doesn't apply to the viewer's problem, and thus a disproportionate number of people view it without voting. For example, if a question only got 10 votes and 100,000 views, while most other questions with 10 votes only have ~1,000, then one might estimate that the question with more views is probably turning up in searches where the question doesn't apply.

The other similar approach would be to look across questions with similar number of views, and establish a distribution of voter participation to see if your question is an outlier.

Either way, basically trying to normalize the view counts based on voter participation. It gets more complicated as you consider the impact of non-top answers. Do you calculate voter participation based on the top answer, the question, or the non-top answer you are calculating impact for? Do you also only attribute a percentage of views to the non-top answer based on it's relative net score compared to all the other answers?

So it indeed can certainly be improved, would likely need a statistical approach to do so, but will never be perfect because you can only assume so much from a view count.

I imagine SO devs considered some of these things, and that's probably why they chose a neutral word such as "impact" that doesn't imply positive nor negative connotation. Someone's impact might be a big smoldering black crater on the face of the internet.

2
  • I understand all these things, but going with the stated algorithm I am reporting a potential bug. May 11, 2015 at 23:26
  • @BradleyDotNET Sorry, I interpreted as a proposed behavior change, but on re-read I realize I misunderstood the intention of your post.
    – AaronLS
    May 11, 2015 at 23:33
1

I think this statistic is indeed biased. You aren't reaching people if you make a low-quality post: you are annoying them. (thanks for Yannis and his great comment)

I recommend taking votes for questions aswell into account for this statistic, according to the following formula :

people reached = (views*upvotes)/total_votes

(there is such an algorithm for answers, but the only condition for questions is "Non-deleted")

This way, you would still take the people you've helped into account when you have a negative score post, but not the people who were angry at you. Of course, it will still be a lie : you can't know exactly what percentage was helped, annoyed, and the percentage that didn't care- but it would be a more accurate lie. :-)

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  • If downvoters could explain what they don't like about this, I'd appreciate it!
    – Docteur
    May 11, 2015 at 8:01
  • 8
    I didn't downvoted ;) A more accurate lie but still one. Why bother if we'll never reflect the reality ? I'm reached by a post, no matter if it helps me or not, as long as I read it. Well, English isn't my native language so I might not get all the variations of the meaning ;)
    – Soma
    May 11, 2015 at 12:02
  • 3
    0 vote questions = divide by zero error instantly. If you give a default value of total of votes to be 1, the formula essentially means 0 upvote questions gives 0 people helped. 100% inaccurate formula!!!
    – Aify
    May 11, 2015 at 21:19
  • @Aify 0 upvotes = 0 person helped; it seems more accurate than -4 votes, 2000 person helped.
    – Docteur
    May 11, 2015 at 23:02
  • @Docteur what about people that come to the site and don't make accounts, or have too low rep to upvote? (a lot of SO users) Not exactly fair to say 0 persons helped. In fact, I don't always upvote answers - even if they do help. I only upvote if they're REALLY GOOD.
    – Aify
    May 11, 2015 at 23:07
  • 1
    This is why this uses a ratio. If you have 0 upvotes, your question probably helped no one. If you have 1 upvote, 9 downvotes, and 100 views, you still probably helped a few persons but not a 100.
    – Docteur
    May 11, 2015 at 23:08
  • 2
    While this is interesting, please note that I am simply reporting a potential bug in the implementation of the algorithm given to us that generates the numbers, not whether or not the algorithm is correct. May 11, 2015 at 23:27
  • @BradleyDotNET You're right, sorry if you think my answer was off-topic!
    – Docteur
    May 11, 2015 at 23:35
  • 3
    I highly disagree that 0 upvotes mean you've helped noone. I have lots of 0 vote accepted answers. I've used a lot of 0 upvote answers off this site- and not gone back to upvote. For that matter I have negative voted answers that I know are right, and I've used negatively voted answers and they've worked. The idea that an answer needs to have upvotes to be useful is completely wrong. I'm not even sure if its a good signal, I see a lot of highly upvoted bad answers. May 12, 2015 at 0:50
  • @Aify and Gabe : Do you know why I put the word "question" when I explained my formula? Because this is for questions. There is already a special algorithm for answers.
    – Docteur
    May 12, 2015 at 0:53
  • 1
    @Docteur Oh then its even worse. The number of horrible questions I see upvoted is close to 90%. May 12, 2015 at 0:56
  • I seem to have mistyped answers instead of questions - i apologize for any confusion.
    – Aify
    May 12, 2015 at 0:59
  • @GabeSechan Excellent news, then! With the current system, 100% of views goes to People Reached. With a system such as the one I propose, you could reduce that ratio with a click of the mouse. :-) Why don't you want to see the obvious?
    – Docteur
    May 12, 2015 at 0:59
  • 1
    Because regardless of whether or not it helped the person, a person reached is a person reached. If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound? Do note that the stat is people "reached", not "helped".
    – Aify
    May 12, 2015 at 1:00
  • 1
    Mostly I think any work on this is a waste of time. They threw in the feature for fun. Take it as that. Its not accurate anyway, there's no way its getting unique people. They have far far more important things to work on. But ignoring that- if you were to try to count people helped (instead of reached) ratios are a bad way to do that because almost nobody votes. Even of those that can- I upvote maybe 1 in 500 answers I read. I'm just not the type to do it. If you want acuracy, all you can say is a downvote is a -1, not a ratio. May 12, 2015 at 1:03

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