120

I just wanted to edit a comment of mine and when I tried to submit the edit I got the message that comments cannot be edited after 5 minutes.

However I was able to delete the comment and post a new one with the updated text.

So what is the rationale behind the 5 minute block when I can actually circumvent this block anyways? Wouldn't it be more user-friendly to just allow editing after 5 minutes instead of having me delete the old and create a new comment?

22
  • 2
    I was going to say that it allows for notifying users of late edits, but I don't think that holds water considering many comment discussions happen in real time and edits within the 5-minute window don't notify.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 4, 2015 at 6:22
  • 30
    You can't circumvent it entirely, because if someone else has commented after you then your comment appears below theirs if you delete and recreate but above theirs if you edit.
    – samgak
    Commented May 4, 2015 at 6:29
  • 24
    That would be one more reason to allow edits after 5 minutes.
    – Jan Thomä
    Commented May 4, 2015 at 6:44
  • 86
    It is pretty annoying to have comments change while the comments below it might respond to something you removed. The five minute window is already a concession. Commented May 4, 2015 at 6:56
  • 8
    That is true, but in that case it shouldn't be possible to delete the above comment either because that would be annoying as well. I see valid points for allowing and disallowing late edits, so what would at least help would be some consistency - either allow late edits and deletes or prohibit both.
    – Jan Thomä
    Commented May 4, 2015 at 6:58
  • 5
    Having them removed is annoying too, but at least it doesn't make the one responding look like an idiot because of responding to part of your comment that has now been removed or drastically rewritten. Commented May 4, 2015 at 6:59
  • 24
    What SO really should do is allow you to edit comments up until someone has started composing a reply or taking any other action which would no longer make sense as a reply to the new version. But I think that would be a little difficult to implement; the 5-minute rule may not be a great approximation, but can you think of a better one?
    – abarnert
    Commented May 4, 2015 at 7:44
  • Yes, I see that this is hard to put into an algorithm, because the system would need to understand the actual content of the comments which is not going to happen anytime soon.
    – Jan Thomä
    Commented May 4, 2015 at 8:01
  • 9
    In my opinion the timer should reset on each edit. That is, the comment should close when I have not edited it for five minutes, not five minutes after I first submitted it. I say this as someone who has a bad habit after submitting a comment - it's called thinking.
    – matt
    Commented May 5, 2015 at 1:36
  • 4
    @MarkRotteveel No, you are wrong. From logic point of view, there is absolutely no difference between editing (drastically) a comment and deleting and rewriting it. Context is the only thing, that matters here. Your reply will look dumb, no matter, if I edit or delete+repost, if context change significantly. While I agree with most of your arguments, I'm pretty sure, that 5 minutes threshold is by far too short. Especially for non-English speakers.Having comment edits allowed indefinitely is, on the other hand, of course very wrong. It should be at least 10, 15 or 20 minutes IMHO.
    – trejder
    Commented May 5, 2015 at 6:16
  • 8
    I ran into this issue on a mobile device. Typing a response takes longer on a phone. I also had a crying child interrupt me at one point. Both combined and forced me to resort to delete + add. Commented May 5, 2015 at 17:12
  • 4
    @trejder If you respond to a deleted comment, the comment you responded to isn't there. This looks very different than responding to a comment (on the same subject) that now says something different (say, where you wanted to correct it). Context matters, and the context of the other comment being under you is informative. Commented May 5, 2015 at 17:57
  • 4
    What about allowing the last comment to be edited indefinitely? Meaning that as long as there are no comments posted below yours, you can still edit it. As soon as someone posts a new comment below yours, the current 5 minute rule applies. This will prevent confusion in the order of replies. Commented May 6, 2015 at 7:25
  • 2
    This is why we should be able to see comment edit revisions.
    – TylerH
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:18
  • 1
    @TylerH Of comments? It's been requested before, and declined. If you feel you can convince SE that SO should become a-Q&A-site-with-a-forum-tucked-underneath-posts then post a feature request. Everything relevant should be in the posts. Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:34

7 Answers 7

55

At the core, both should serve a different purpose:

  • edit should be used to fix a comment (typo, syntax, code correction, ...)
  • delete should be used to remove an obsolete comment

Using delete+add instead of edit is an abuse of the system and, at the very least, leads to difficult to read threads (when someone answered).

11
  • 1
    I see. It's one of those things that you can't just hack into an algorithm. Thanks :)
    – Jan Thomä
    Commented May 4, 2015 at 7:13
  • 60
    While this answer perfectly explains difference between these two operations, it is far from actual reality. It was pointed out (too) many times, that 5 minutes threshold is by far too short. Therefore, many SE users uses edit+delete technique not to abuse system, but to work-around too tough limits, AFAIK.
    – trejder
    Commented May 5, 2015 at 6:10
  • 7
    Worst case scenario, someone could edit a comment with a high amount of upvotes and put something really stupid, or just change the message.
    – Ben Morris
    Commented May 5, 2015 at 17:37
  • 4
    @BenMorris The same should apply to answers, then.
    – Ypnypn
    Commented May 5, 2015 at 17:53
  • 8
    @Ypnypn edit logs of answers are kept, and can be accessed, and bad edits reverted. Commented May 5, 2015 at 17:58
  • 5
    Sorry, but this is rubbish. Comments are not intended to be long-term thing. The only abuse of the system with comments is any attempt to preserve them in an ideal manner. Confusing comment-thread? Flag. Question/answer to get rid of the lot, individual ones where some are still waiting for action. Commented May 6, 2015 at 9:06
  • 3
    @Bill: No, being "confusing" is never a reason for flagging a comment thread. Being confusing to just one user, even less so.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 13:59
  • @BenVoigt I don't mean "confusing" in a general sense (that can happen often enough in a quite natural way) I mean confusing through the deletion of comments. If the comments no longer make sense in that items have been acted upon or otherwise resolved, then the comments can go. That's what obsolete is for. Unconstructive and too chatty are also very useful for removing noise. What's the problem? Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:05
  • @BillWoodger So you mean like a comment just reading "No, I don't think..." that would have made sense had not someone deleted their comment?
    – Ben Morris
    Commented May 19, 2015 at 16:32
  • @BenMorris Did someone delete a comment in front of yours? Commented May 19, 2015 at 17:32
  • @BenMorris It's being discussed again today. See here, for instance: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/294674/… Commented May 19, 2015 at 17:39
34

After 5 minutes it is reasonable to believe that the OP of a question or answers that you are commenting on may have read your message and decided on a response. At least there is a small but realistic probability of that.

At some point (arbitrarily set at 5 minutes by SO), edits to your comments risk more damage due to changing responses-in-progress than the benefit to you of getting your comment just right.

A smarter system might be able to adapt to likely risk, but would be much harder to understand than the fixed 5-minute window.

If you are posting a comment in a non-busy question, or at a quiet time on the site, and you really feel the need to revise, then I think it is safe to delete-and-repost. Otherwise, it is something to avoid since it causes impact to other users.

17
  • 2
    No. Comments are not supposed to be anything. It is always "safe" to delete. Commented May 6, 2015 at 9:09
  • 4
    @BillWoodger: Comments can definitely become redundant if they are acted on, or are ignored suggestions, and comments are clearly secondary to questions and answers. Some of the beta sites have rigorous comment clean-up policies to prevent forum-like conversations. However, it is worth considering impact. If comments had no purpose at all, then we wouldn't have them. Commented May 6, 2015 at 9:26
  • 3
    No. That comments have a purpose does not preclude the purpose being temporary. There is no logical connection. Non-sequitur. When someone sticks a post-it on my desk, I don't leave it there forever, or worry about the order in which it may have arrived, or anything. It has a purpose, but once the purpose is served, it heads towards the bin. Those that don't go to the bin are clutter. If someone want to make a brilliant point about something, don't put it on a post-it. Or a comment. Commented May 6, 2015 at 9:49
  • @BillWoodger: I don't disagree that comments are temporary. See my comment on your answer. I think you are looking too far beyond the OP's question. The original question is not "is it safe to delete my comment whenever I want?", but "why five minutes limit, when I could just delete and re-post anyway?". When someone puts a post-it on your desk, you probably leave it there up to the point it stops being useful, and you may well care about the order of things if you are in the unlucky position of having more than one post-it to respond to. Commented May 6, 2015 at 9:54
  • 1
    Or keeping with the post-it analogy: If someone put a post-it on your desk asking for something, you saw it and got up to do something about it, then they came back and put a different post-it with new information on your desk while you were up, then you might be reasonably annoyed with that person when you came back and found out that the requirements had changed whilst you were working Commented May 6, 2015 at 9:56
  • If significant, it is already documented (I've done something and recorded it in whatever appropriate way). If insignificant, so what? Either way, no, I can't think of a reason to be annoyed. Things change. In their changing, insignificant communication about a previous state is simply obsolete. Commented May 6, 2015 at 10:03
  • @BillWoodger I think the post-it analogy breaks down because the writer of the comment doesn't generally know whether you've read it or not. There's no "acknowledge" button, or way to delete someone else's comment once you've started acting on it. Also, delete and add is like swapping the post-it note; edit is like the lettering on the post-it mysteriously changing while it's in your hand. If the edit is that important that it needs to be made after more than 5 minutes, it probably needs to be a new comment so it will actually get read, rather than pretending it always said that.
    – IMSoP
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 15:41
  • @IMSoP Not intended as an analogy except peripherally in the sense of something that is throw-away. If something is throw-away, you do so, once it has been "consumed". It was Neil who made it an analogy, so feel free to defeat it in as many ways as you like (except the actual way, the throw-away) :-) Commented May 6, 2015 at 15:57
  • @BillWoodger OK, but I'm challenging the throw-away part of the analogy as much as anything: post-its are thrown away by the recipient, which is impossible with StackOverflow comments. Repeatedly deleting and adding very similar comments does impact the author of the post being commented on (e.g. it will ping them repeatedly in the status bar) so saying "do it as often as you like" doesn't seem like good advice.
    – IMSoP
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 16:11
  • @IMSoP Presuming that something useful has changed in the new comment, the only way to get OPs attention to it is to ping them in a new comment, so editing would seem useless from that point of view. Can I demonstrate it, no, but what I think is that far too many people are "attached", in an emotional sense, to their comments. They are (hopefully) useful in a moment, and beyond that they are detritus waiting to be brushed away. Throw-away in the sense I intended is just about throw-away, not about who does it. It was only in a comment, after all :-) Commented May 6, 2015 at 16:28
  • @BillWoodger I think we mostly agree, but ... if the intention is to perform a minor edit more than 5 minutes after the post was made, then deleting and re-adding (thus re-pinging the author) is disruptive, and you should probably just shrug and move on; if the intention is to make a new point significant enough that a new ping is desirable, then just add an extra comment, and don't delete the old one; if the comment is no longer relevant, delete it and don't add a new one. Trying to roll new points into an old comment is giving that old comment more value than it deserves.
    – IMSoP
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 16:35
  • @IMSoP Yes, I'm not suggesting re-comment to fix a typo. My intervention in this topic is "today's comments are tomorrow's chip wrapping", so don't get all angsty and make up fictitious "rules" about them. Ephemeral. Second-class. If the timing of the thread were important of itself, why would we have to "expand" to see the true timing? Upvoted stuff gets picked first, without taking its context with it. Why does someone want extra effort, extra storage, lesser response, to "preserve" something you can only see if you step a little bit out of your way to do so. Ephemeral. Second-class. Commented May 6, 2015 at 16:54
  • @BillWoodger I'm not sure in what way that contradicts anything in Neil Slater's answer, and therefore why you started your first two comments with "No."
    – IMSoP
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 16:57
  • @BillWoodger: I have tried to make it clearer that my answer is addressing delete-and-repost actions to work around 5-minute limits to edits, and is not about "safe to delete" in general. Commented May 6, 2015 at 17:34
  • 1
    @IMSoP the point of my No, is that it is always, as in any time you want, "safe" to delete comments for any reason you like. I wasn't even considering a desire to fix small things, but, for instance, and egregious error along with other pertinent points. Why'd I not delete the comment and repost the meaningful stuff? It is always 100% "safe" to do this. If I were to do this, I'd ping to invite someone pointing that out to remove, and once I know that they have visited again, consider flagging as obsolete. I can't remember doing this, but I'd not have any qualms about doing it. Always "safe" Commented May 6, 2015 at 17:46
12

What you can do doesn't mean you should do. You should not delete and add a comment instead of an edit. If you had something to add/modify in your comment, and that you cannot edit it anymore, then add another comment and no need to delete your previous comment. Doing so would break the continuity, and might make the entire discussion meaningless.

Imagine a topic thread, where you deleted a comment just because you thought you could have replied in a better manner, and now that you cannot edit it. So, you simply deleted it, meanwhile some/few/many folks responded to your comment.

It would look bizarre to see comments as a response without the comment which originated these replies. And it looks even more pathetic, when the replies have a @user in the beginning to notify the user being replied to, and then there is no clue about what that user originally commented.

1

Said first...I think the current add, edit, delete abilities of comments are acceptable as is.

To me, Questions & Answers are analogous to printed material and Comments are analogous to verbal speech.

Quick edits and deletions

Like spoken conversations, it seems quite logical that one would throw out a comment and fairly quickly amend that comment (either after further thought or additional comments by others). It also seems logical that one would "take back what I said" (again after further thought or additional comments).

Ephemeral Nature

It also seems to me that Comments can be used to clarify intent. You might "@" someone in the conversation with "Did you mean..." and receive a personal response like "I meant...". After both people have clarified their positions, the comments might no longer add to the value of the question/answer and be deleted.

My 2-cents

So the current system of adding, quickly editing & deleting comments fits well with the analogy of people having a quick, mostly on-topic conversation (with lengthy conversations instead being chats).

0

There's two small updates to comments that I think would make them a lot more user-friendly for editing, and reduce how often this error is shown to users:

  • Hide the "edit" link client-side when the 5 minutes are up
  • Allow 1 minute extra "grace period" for when the edit box is already open (just extend the edit duration to 6 minutes)

There've been plenty of times when the comment says it was 4 minutes prior and I notice a typo, then quickly try to edit it and get the error because it rolled over 5 minutes right at that time.

(And I suspect the timestamp isn't updating as quickly as it should be, which just makes this happen more often - still saying "4 minutes ago" when the 5-minute limit has already passed)

1
  • 1
    Whilst this may make sense, assigning developers' time to things like this opens the floodgates on the slippery slope to comments-as-a-forum. "Hey, you made that good change for Izkata, this'll also improve things...". Don't wait up. Commented May 7, 2015 at 12:25
-2

I think what the other answers did not address is the fact that if you delete and re-comment, your new comment lands at the bottom of the list of comments. This way, once a comment has been around for 5 minutes, it's locked in at its position in the list of comments. This behavior goes a long way to help ensure that responses will actually make sense.

Why should others be obligated to update their responses to your comment if you come back a month later with your revisions? Even if well-intentioned, it can often pull the rug out from under the flow of the conversation.

You may delete a comment, of course, which still potentially hurts the coherence of the discussion overall. Like others have mentioned, this is a compromise, and the idea is to provide some incentive against continually changing the content, while still allowing you a "way out" if you posted something you truly regret.

1
  • 1
    They didn't need to, there's a highly upvoted comment to the question that points this out.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:03
-3

In the long-term, comments don't matter. The fewer the comments, the cleaner questions and answers look.

A question or answer should stand fully without reference to comments. If a comment is deleted, it should not affect the ability of the next search-enginer along to be able to find what they want.

Comments are supposed to be "ephemeral".

Relevant information from comments should be included in the question/answer, either by edit by OP or by someone else.

Once this is done, the comment in question is obsolete. Guess what, you can flag a comment as such to get it deleted. Comments are noise. You shouldn't need to read them historically, unless you need to read them.

Which leads to an instance where they are not ephemeral. If an answer is "wrong" to the extent it can't be fixed by editing, or it is "dangerous", then there seems to be no other way to indicate such a thing except by a comment. And those should stay.

Why get all scrunched-up about comments, and order, and whether something is referenced that is no longer there? There should not be things with content.

You can always "ping" people (using the @ in a comment) to ensure they know of changes, and delete those afterwards.

You can always flag comments individually, or a question/answer with a custom flag saying that all comments are obsolete, not constructive or whatever.

You can edit a comment, without an edit history, for five minutes, the intention being that you can fix typos, and simplify wording, for instance. You can delete a comment at any point after you have posted it. Work out for yourselves which of these functions has greater importance to the system.

If there is a comment that is obsolete, delete. If it is partially obsolete, delete and re-post. If another comment refers to the original, ping and tidy up afterwards. If the other comment is not removed, flag.

Other than for answers-which-people-should-not-use, comments should not be a long-standing thing. Once acted-upon, they have no use. They should be removed.

Here's a pot of links:

https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/237980/218565

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/254805/1927206

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/278517/1927206

Highlight and comment parts of questions for comments

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/258172/1927206

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/278087/1927206

Code-Changes behind Links. What exactly to do?

8
  • 1
    Whilst this is true in the long-term about comments, the OP's question is about short-term effects (and the 5-minute edit window). Whilst having a discussion about the contents of a question or answer, it is helpful to have a sequence, and to avoid the cross-talk of changing comments during an active period on a question. Yes, once that is done, a lot of comments can and should be cleaned up. Commented May 6, 2015 at 9:28
  • 1
    @NeilSlater I can see nothing in OPs question which alludes to what you state. For me, the only clue to time is the word-selection of "old" rather than "original" which, if I'd been writing that, would mean an old comment rather than a "fresh" one as part of an ongoing resolution. But I'd not boldly assert that without much more to go on. Commented May 6, 2015 at 9:51
  • That exception, for comments pointing out flaws, is so broad you could float a tanker through it, which makes the generalizations pretty worthless.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:06
  • 1
    @BenVoigt I didn't say I like it. It is a contradiction which arises whenever the ephemeral nature of comments comes up. If they are ephemeral and second-class, then to my mind they always should be. However, we aren't exactly encouraged to edit an answer to say "don't ever, ever, do anything as stupid as this suggests. Ever. It will cause the CPU to shut down". So those comments, don't have much choice but to stay. I don't see it as massively broad. You got some examples? Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:15
  • In the c and c++ tags, a rather large fraction of comments, maybe even a majority, concern undefined behavior.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:18
  • My random lunge into a number of C++ answers didn't find any, but anyway I don't see what the problem is. If an answer relies for its "correctness" is an artifact of undefined behaviour, and there is no other means (which there aren't, we're not supposed to delete bad answers or edit in such things) then a comment is the only recourse. I don't see how that can be regarded as "broad" however. Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:28
  • There. I even edited that one, and still left it bad. Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:46
  • @BenVoigt My random lunge into a number of C++ answers didn't find any, but anyway, regardless of that, I don't see what the problem is. If an answer relies for its "correctness" on an artifact of undefined behaviour, and there is no other means (which there aren't, we're not supposed to delete bad answers or edit in such things) of expressing that to the casual search-enginer, then a comment is the only recourse. I don't see how that can be regarded as "broad" however. Commented May 6, 2015 at 14:50

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .