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So, I've been pretty active on for about a year. Currently it's a C#/.Net tag exclusively as it's the mainstream language that introduced it.

Lately though, as other languages introduce this concept, new non-.Net questions have been popping around tagged . I usually retag these as they don't fit the current tag, but that's not a sustainable solution.

This problem is only going to get worse as more languages add that (like python, javascript, etc.) and more people use it.

My suggestion to solve this issue going forward is to rename the existing tag and add C#/.Net (like ) and create a new all encompassing tag for the conceptual idea and not a specific implementation. (EDIT: I can go without the general tag, it's probably not that useful. What's important to me is the language specific tags)

So, what do you think?

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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. Jun 2, 2015 at 18:15
  • The conclusion was to use separate technology specific tags. Further information in my answer or in the chat
    – i3arnon
    Jun 21, 2015 at 21:49
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    @i3arnon: I'm sorry, that's not the conclusion that reflects community voting here. It is a conclusion you may want, but it is not the consensus.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Jul 9, 2015 at 21:49
  • @MartijnPieters It's not what I want, it's the best decision for the community that actually participates in that tag. And making a decision based on votes from users outside of it is not how you reach the best decision.
    – i3arnon
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:03
  • @i3arnon: those users have experience with the system and tagging in general. I do too, and there are going to be a lot more users with experience with the concept. You cannot close those users out.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:27
  • @i3arnon: moreover, I see little point in creating per-language tags here. Regular expressions have per-language subtleties, string objects do too, etc.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:28
  • @MartijnPieters the async-await tag isn't about a general concept. It's about the specific .Net technology named TAP. Regex is a language that exists outside of any programming language with specific libraries in each ecosystem. TAP has nothing in common with any other technology except for (potentially) using the same keywords. It would be like combining SQL and LINQ together because they both use select and from. I'm not keeping other users out, I'm suggesting giving them their own space. Why should I be able to close python questions just because I'm familiar with TAP?
    – i3arnon
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:34
  • Then create a TAP tag and start using it.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:35
  • @MartijnPieters If I create a TAP tag, and retag all the current questions in async-await, and copy over the tag info and tag synonyms, how would that be any different than simply renaming the current tag?
    – i3arnon
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:36
  • @MartijnPieters I have no problem with doing that. Would I really be able to?
    – i3arnon
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:37
  • There is no rename option for tags, not really. If you were tagging TAP questions with async-await (which is a specific coroutines approach) then why did you use the tag in the first place?
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:37
  • @MartijnPieters I didn't tag anything. The async-await tag isn't about an approach, it's about the technology. The async await words just make a better name. And people used it to mean the same thing, TAP.
    – i3arnon
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:43
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    It is only been used exclusively for that tech because you kept removing the tags from other languages!
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Jul 10, 2015 at 15:48
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    @Bergi: I have. I also talked with the CM team and other moderators. The community feels there is no point in per-language tags for the same concept across all those languages, other moderators and a CM agree. Most importantly, so does the community vote.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Jul 10, 2015 at 21:57
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    @bergi I did this for the ecmascript tag, because ecmascript-async-await is an actual committee proposal and only 19 or so questions needed retagging, but I don't consider it a generalized solution. Jul 10, 2015 at 23:44

4 Answers 4

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There are many [tags] like this, some of the more popular ones are [exception], [regex], [xml], [database], [performance], etcetera. Used in many different languages but never a problem, the questioner never forgets to include a main tag like [c#] to disambiguate the question.

You just need to hone your tag query a bit to select only C# questions that ask about [await-async]. Use the AND operator, like this.

And don't overlook the value of actually seeing how it is used in different languages, also the core reason why SO isn't split up into multiple sites, you can learn a lot from seeing how it is applied elsewhere. When this helps you to post good answers in, say, the [python] tag about the same subject then you're ahead big time. Everybody wins.

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  • Or use the .net
    – ChrisF Mod
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:30
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    I usually do that, but that would make us miss some of the questions, as people don't always tag properly :\ Apr 18, 2015 at 13:30
  • @YuvalItzchakov - questions can always be retagged and you could do an occasional wider search to see if there were any you'd missed.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:31
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    @ChrisF the cost of having to do that with every. single. question. is too high.
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:32
  • You're right, i'm simply looking for the simplest solution with less ambiguity. Not just from a search perspective, but from a tag perspective as well. Apr 18, 2015 at 13:32
  • Regarding overlooking how it is used in different languages - I started reading the python PEP out of self interest because i find it intriguing how they implement it across multiple languages and i completely agree with that statment. But i don't think it has to do with tag filtering. Apr 18, 2015 at 13:37
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    Just to emphasize... currently everything about the tag (info, links, etc.) is all .Net specific.
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:41
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    Using and isn't an option. Because people just tag [async await], you would miss it. Apr 18, 2015 at 13:43
  • Also, most filtering options don't support it, like email notifications
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:45
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    I think a nice test would be to ask yourself whether you would bundle all the language specific question into a single tag if the keywords weren't the same. if async-await in Java will be called [AsynchronousGenerator-AsynchronousWaiter] would you still want to include it? My answer would be no.
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 14:12
  • I didn't think there's an and operator in the search? "and" as a word that is on the ignored-keywords-list, and you'd just use [async-await][c#] to search.
    – Bergi
    Apr 18, 2015 at 18:07
  • @SriramSakthivel: Then those need to be fixed.
    – Bergi
    Apr 18, 2015 at 18:12
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    "the questioner never forgets to include a main tag"... hmm... you should visit [regex] more often :-) Apr 18, 2015 at 22:37
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    @Deduplicator I always wanted to have something similar to this for [regex]... I'll submit a feature request. Apr 18, 2015 at 22:51
-4

I think a per-technology tag is due. I would run like hell from a global async-await tag, as I think the most use for it would be to newcomers who aren't familiar with the tag system. It would eventually turn into a garbage tag.

I'm not sure how much effort it takes to refactor async-await to something like , but I think it's worth the effort and I'm all in with on that.

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    You can create a synonym the when they get merged swap them round so that async-await.net is the master.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:28
  • @ChrisF but async-await would still be an option while asking a question wouldn't it?
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:43
  • @i3arnon if the tag is synonymized, all uses of [async-await] would be shifted to [.net-async-await] or whatever the main tag would be.
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:48
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    @Braiam That would be exactly what we don't want. Apr 18, 2015 at 13:50
  • @Braiam indeed. But that doesn't answer the question. Will async-await still be an option? I think so, even for synonyms. That means people can tag their questions with that tag as if it's a general tag even though it may not be .net specific.
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:50
  • @i3arnon when someone tries to use [async-await] it would be renamed to [.net-async-await] in the case that the synonym is in place. So [async-await] would become [.net-async-await] upon submition, tl;dr: no, submitting a question with factual [async-await] will not be possible due the synonym.
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:52
  • @Braiam I think we're at risk for too many false-positives on that. I wouldn't want async-await.net to become a default "spam" tag. Apr 18, 2015 at 13:54
  • @Braiam you just described how it is possible. It would lead to people posting general async-await question into the specific async-await.Net
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:55
  • @YuvalItzchakov that's not what I'm suggesting. Actually, I'm suggesting that [async-await] isn't used, not as synonym, not as an actual tag, for the same reasons you wouldn't want it as synonym of the .net variant: it would get misused.
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:55
  • @i3arnon again, I'm just explaining how synonyms work, not that I'm proposing that as solution, check my answer, it is very clear.
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:56
  • @Braiam you don't need to. We all know how it works. We're just raising the problems that can create.
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:58
  • @i3arnon of course I'm aware of the problems this would cause, which is why I'm against it.
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:58
-5

My suggestion to solve this issue going forward is to rename the existing tag and add C#/.Net (like async-await.net)

If you find an actual usage, this is fine.

and create a new all encompassing async-await tag for the conceptual idea and not a specific implementation.

And this is not fine.

You are basically saying that you don't want problems when the tag is used for what you are interested, but leave the problem to your fellow answerers of other languages to figure out?

You found how quickly that tag got misused for the C#/.NET guys, and now you are essentially shifting the problem to someone else. I say, if those languages believe that they need a tag for async-await method/function/whatever, they would create them organically.

Not all implementations are equal across the board, so you can't have a all encompasing, ambiguous tag for others to use that you wouldn't use yourself.

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  • If you find an actual usage, this is fine Doesn't the question seem like there already exists an "actual usage"? Apr 18, 2015 at 13:47
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    @YuvalItzchakov I'm contrasting both parts of the solution presented. If someone finds that they need a tag to categorize a determinated topic, that is fine. But leaving a loose end on the other hand for others to clean up is not.
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 13:49
  • @Braiam that really wasn't what I meant. I see the general tag as a general one for everybody. I can see people tag questions as both async-await AND async-await.Net. There are already many examples for that. When I ask a mongodb question i tag it mongodb AND mongodb-csharp-driver.
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 14:00
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    But I do agree a general tag is probably not that useful.
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 14:01
  • @i3arnon the problem with "general tags" is that there isn't a clear boundary of when the tag shouldn't be used. I'm saying that if you are going to propose a solution, make it complete. Ask for retagging [async-await] + [c#]/[.net] to something else, and remove [async-await] from everything else. I'm not saying that we don't have a problem, I'm saying lets fix it completly and in a way that doesn't creates troubles for someone else.
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 14:03
  • @Braiam I'm cool with that (I actually just added it to the question). The point I was trying to make was about the language specific tags. I don't care about the general one.
    – i3arnon
    Apr 18, 2015 at 14:06
  • @i3arnon oh, maybe we were so focused on our own problems...
    – Braiam
    Apr 18, 2015 at 14:09
-5

After thorough deliberation I've managed to convince Robert Harvey♦ that separate tags for different technologies will benefit everyone (partly since you can't filter by tag combinations everywhere)

We went ahead and created a new tag for questions regarding async functions in javascript named and remains only for .Net's Task-based Asynchronous Pattern.

As requested, a summary of my arguments:

  • The tag, while colloquially named "async-await", is actually about TAP (Task-based Asynchronous Pattern). It's already a technology specific tag and doesn't contain any general "async-await" concept questions.
  • A general "async-await" tag would not add value as there's no reason people familiar with TAP in .Net should be able to answer javascript "async-await" questions (unless they are separately familiar with this technology)
  • You can't (still) filter by using tag combinations in some parts of the site (Support AND combinations of tags on the meta filters and RSS feeds)
  • If javascript, instead of async and await, used other keywords we wouldn't suggest combining the tags. Imagine EntityFramework, Hibernate and Dapper sharing the same tag just because they solve similar problems.

The complete discussion can be found in this chat room.

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  • Can you summarize the arguments pro- and contra for this solution per your discussion? You're not suggesting [.net-exception] or [.net-regex] either, so why would you do this here? Even worse is segregating other languages by prepending the language name and leaving the general tag to point to a specific language as well. That's wonky and will only cause the entire debate again in some time when other async-await tags have become more popular. Jun 21, 2015 at 21:53
  • @JeroenVannevel exception and regex aren't specific technologies, they are general programming concepts. Questions in the async-await tag are never questions about the concept of asynchronous programming. They are about the specific technology named TAP (colloquially referred to as async-await).
    – i3arnon
    Jun 21, 2015 at 22:00
  • @JeroenVannevel For example, you can have a single ORM tag, but you it doesn't mean you shouldn't have EntityFramework, Hibernate and so forth just because they solve a similar problem.
    – i3arnon
    Jun 21, 2015 at 22:01
  • I see where you're coming from, but in your analogy you would create Entity-Framework, NHibernate and have ORM point to Dapper. If you're going to make language specific tags, then it makes sense to do this for every language. Jun 21, 2015 at 22:04
  • @JeroenVannevel We did, it's currently only relevant to JS and .Net. I agree that async-await's name should probably be changed to async-await.net just as I suggested in the question. But I take what I can get. A general concept async-await tag would be pretty useless IMO.
    – i3arnon
    Jun 21, 2015 at 22:05
  • This isn't exactly what I agreed to. ecmascript-async-await is a point solution only for the ecmascript-specific tags, and only involves 16 questions. I didn't extend the concept to include all variations of the async-await concept. async-await is still the preferred tag of choice for the C# variant, and the lack of a feature for tag filters doesn't justify further bastardizing the tags. Lobby for the correct feature, not a workaround. Jun 21, 2015 at 22:32
  • These things get hammered out in a chat room by 3 people these days??? Jun 21, 2015 at 22:34
  • @RobertHarvey I removed the scala mention. Is this closer? ecmascript question go to the ecmascript-async-await and .Net ones to async-await.
    – i3arnon
    Jun 21, 2015 at 22:36
  • @RobertHarvey This is the correct feature. And I lobby for both.
    – i3arnon
    Jun 21, 2015 at 22:37
  • @HansPassant: This isn't a major change. All of the ecmascript async await questions (there are only 16) were given their own tag, that's all. Jun 21, 2015 at 22:37
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    @RobertHarvey - what's the point in having SO users vote on these proposals when they just do whatever the hell pleases them anyway? This entire discussion is nonsense then, just delete it and lets stop pretending it matters. Jun 21, 2015 at 22:47
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    @HansPassant I've read the answer and it's not relevant as 1.The [async-await] tag is nothing like [database] or [performance] as I've explained in my answer and in the chat. The people who actually contribute to that community (Yuval Itzchakov, Sriram Sakthivel & I) know that unlike the people who voted up your answer. 2.You can't hone the tag query as it doesn't work. 3. No one would ever be able to answer a different language's [async-await] question (unless fluent in both) as they are completely different technologies that happen to share a name, like TPL in .Net and TPL in python.
    – i3arnon
    Jun 21, 2015 at 23:28
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    BTW, I've just discovered the dart-async tag which was created organically by the dart community and has a lot more questions than the ecmascript-async-await
    – i3arnon
    Jun 21, 2015 at 23:46
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    I've raised this with the CMs to see if a rename is possible. Keeping the tag async-await for .NET only is not going to scale, it'll only lead to more conflicts as other communities gain the same feature.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Jul 8, 2015 at 12:34
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    The voting here on meta clearly disagrees with this, and for good reason: imagine if we did this for every common programming term or pattern! We'd have [python-string] and [javascript-observer-pattern] and [asp.net-mvc-mvc] and...
    – Shog9
    Jul 9, 2015 at 21:46

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