25

I follow an RSS feed of Scott Hanselman's, and by clicking through some of today's post I came across this "crowd-sourced mentorship" site for coding. http://exercism.io/ (it is sfw as long as you don't mind a slightly demonic color scheme). If you are worried about visiting the URL I completely understand, here is a screenshot of part of the homepage:

From their site, they link back to Stack Overflow which was slightly surprising (but not entirely surprising given the size of SO). My surprise turned to full on curiosity when I followed the link to find that their website had created a tag here. . If you browse the tag you will find a collection of questions about boilerplate problems they solve. However, none of these problems benefit from the tag, and all it really looks like is advertising.

Is this condoned? I find it hard to tell, and there are only 15 of these tagged so it seems like it could possibly have just slipped under the radar.

7
  • 2
    Looks like 0 tagged to me Mar 10, 2015 at 22:28
  • 10
    It is "exercism", not "exorcism" Mar 10, 2015 at 22:33
  • 4
    I say let it burn!!! Its not adding anything to those questions. Mar 10, 2015 at 22:41
  • 15
    In the vein of the recent flurry of humorous (or plain bad) 'burninate' post titles: "Let's exorcise [exercise]!"
    – Jongware
    Mar 10, 2015 at 23:00
  • 10
  • I did a pretty slow roast of the tags where and when I could. Some questions were exceptional, others I voted to close. For the most part though, the tag is cleaned out. Unless we're looking for a blacklist, can we say status-completed?
    – Makoto
    Mar 12, 2015 at 17:11
  • @Makoto - Yeah it didn't seem hard to remove, but the context is no longer present. Since there are now no tagged questions in this tag it will be automatically removed by the roomba. However, as it was created in.. seemingly less than desirable circumstances, I am curious if (or when) it will come back. Perhaps status-completed, but then again, there is still a link to it on their website which I think encourages users to use it.
    – Travis J
    Mar 12, 2015 at 17:28

3 Answers 3

9

I think that you are all correct in consigning the effort to the flames, and I appreciate the help in cleaning up. I'll go remove the references from the documentation/site.

I am the creator of exercism. I originally asked the question of whether or not it was allowed (https://github.com/exercism/exercism.io/issues/1838). From the post that I found it seemed like this was not frowned upon, so I thought I'd give it a go.

Since I am not personally someone who uses stack overflow / stack exchange myself, it didn't occur to me to ask here, which would have let me know up front that this was inappropriate.

The site is open source and free. It's not a product or really meant to be one, it's just a side hack that kind of happened by accident, and that a few people use for fun.

Note: I wanted to add this as a comment to the original post, not an "answer", but I don't have enough reputation points to do so.

1
  • 3
    Thanks for coming to the conversation. I would say that this is fine as an answer anyhow, as comments are really just...comments. This adds more to the overall conversation, at least.
    – Makoto
    Mar 14, 2015 at 20:33
28

I'm not sure why they'd bother. There's no API to integrate with their site, and there's nothing that I can see a professional developer getting from the site. It even states that their primary audience is students learning to program.

That alone makes me think that someone from the Community Management Team should have a word with these folks. Stack Overflow isn't some forum where you can just have questions tagged with your site to get others to look at it, nor is it some support area where you can send your users if they run into a problem with your site.

Killing it with fire is kind of passe, though. Anyone got some lava?

Seems that between the previous edit and this edit, the link has made its way back onto their site. Has anyone from the Community Management team reached out to them yet? I'm tempted to start the burnination process, but I'd like to be sure that Stack Exchange has at least had some sort of dialog with them.

15
  • 1
    At 700 degrees C or higher, most flammable things are going to catch fire on contact, I imagine. Unless you're hoping to encase it in rock, but that would mean a long remaining reminder, which I don't think is what we want here. Good try, but the metaphor just doesn't work as well.
    – jpmc26
    Mar 11, 2015 at 1:41
  • 27
    I just wanted to see lava poured on something. Jeez, cut a guy some slack...
    – Makoto
    Mar 11, 2015 at 1:41
  • 4
    @TravisJ Why would you assume that it's intentional? Given no evidence, assume good faith.
    – Jeremy
    Mar 11, 2015 at 6:03
  • @JeremyBanks In my opinion, a link on their site to the created tag seems like pretty convincing evidence they created it.
    – Travis J
    Mar 11, 2015 at 6:21
  • 3
    @TravisJ The creation may be intentional, but that doesn't mean the "disregard for the terms at Stack Exchange" was. Mar 11, 2015 at 13:03
  • 1
    @AnthonyGrist - Oh sure it does. The user who created the tag with the idea of marketing their product and driving traffic to their site violated the terms of service here. "Users that ... use deceptive means to generate ... traffic, or whose primary purpose is affiliate marketing, will be suspended."
    – Travis J
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:33
  • 3
    @AnthonyGrist - Let me go a little further. This user: stackoverflow.com/users/1371070/cezar seems to have been insistent in editing in the tag on this question: stackoverflow.com/posts/24592521/revisions
    – Travis J
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:49
  • @TravisJ: I'm willing to chalk that up to a misunderstanding. I don't want to necessarily assume bad faith, but by that point a moderator should have been flagged since it had turned into an edit war.
    – Makoto
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:50
  • And here: stackoverflow.com/posts/26104511/revisions
    – Travis J
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:50
  • And here: stackoverflow.com/posts/26641088/revisions
    – Travis J
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:51
  • 1
    Sure is an awful lot of smoke if there is nothing going on here. Perhaps my previous comment was too harsh, but it certainly seems like it was intentional, and in my opinion it was.
    – Travis J
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:53
  • You raise a fair point. A lot of those edits do seem pretty fishy. We should go ahead and get burninating on this, then. Flagging a mod on those edits though would be my first step.
    – Makoto
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:54
  • It looks like the tag has been burninated (as of right now, the wiki still exists so we need to wait a day). Mar 12, 2015 at 23:10
  • @Makoto "Stack Overflow isn't some forum where you can just have questions tagged with your site to get others to look at it, nor is it some support area where you can send your users if they run into a problem with your site." So is this wrong: developer.skobbler.com/support#appSupport where they say "Get help from the community by tagging with the "skmaps" tag". Ending up with questions like: stackoverflow.com/questions/28963285/…
    – user146043
    Mar 13, 2015 at 16:16
  • @Poldie: In particular, one would expect that a team that decides to use Stack Overflow as their method of support has a well-established user base and power users within the system itself to assist the moderation/cleanup of those tags. For that tag in particular, I'm not so sure if they have either of that, but my remark was more towards an entity offloading their support duties on to Stack Overflow without a critical mass of users to prop it up.
    – Makoto
    Mar 13, 2015 at 16:28
-9

Exercism is about getting experienced programmers to mentor newer programmers and to help them improve their general style in a language. I've been involved in some beginner coder communities, and my impression is that Exercism are doing some good work (I'm not involved with that project, but do keep meaning to try it for myself).

Last I checked, everything was free to use, so I don't think it's the kind of blatant spam we should be checking tags for, and any suggestion of bad faith is, in my view, misplaced. I feels to me like a community project that ought to be encouraged.

That all said, would an Exercism question on Stack Overflow be the kind that we want to encourage? I'm not so sure - the nature of questions will all be code review, so I wonder if the tag would be better off on Code Review.

The Code Review community would have to make their own determination as to whether this tag is acceptable to them. If it is, I think having a tag would be useful. If people are approaching the Stack Exchange network with their Exercism problems, other people may wish to look through the kinds of problems people are facing, and the tag can be used to group them together. Mark Amery's answer here makes some good points in the same vein.

10
  • 13
    You are not answering the one and only important point: What does the tag mean that is on-topic and not a bona-fide meta-tag? AFAICS, nothing. Mar 11, 2015 at 14:14
  • 1
    Hi @Deduplicator, happy to try to expand these thoughts for you. I said that "I'm not so sure" we would want to encourage these questions on Stack Overflow, by which I meant that they would not be on-topic. I think that's quite clear already, but I've added some new thoughts anyway. The purpose of my answer was not so much to ask for the tag not to be deleted, but to put forward the view that Exercism are not acting in bad faith (see some of the comments on Makoto's answer, which seem to agree).
    – halfer
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:08
  • 2
    So, you concurr that the tag does not belong, you are unsure whether the questions belong, and in any way you doubt there was any bad faith in it on their side? That's a reasonable view, and does not in any way oppose the prior answer. Mar 11, 2015 at 15:14
  • That's not a bad summary, @Deduplicator - with the proviso that I've not examined the existing questions in this tag, so don't know how on-topic they are. However, I oppose the sentiment of Makoto's answer - he/she very clearly is assuming bad faith, and I disagree with that assessment.
    – halfer
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:18
  • 2
    I'm not assuming bad faith at all. I don't make any assertion affirming or denying in what faith this tag was created under. I merely state that the tag doesn't belong and that the Community Management team should step in.
    – Makoto
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:29
  • Hi @Makoto, thanks. I think the following is an unambiguous indication of bad faith: "Stack Overflow isn't some forum where you can just have questions tagged with your site to get others to look at it, nor is it some support area where you can send your users if they run into a problem with your site". You would not have mentioned it if you didn't want that implication to be made in relation to Exercism in particular.
    – halfer
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:31
  • (FWIW, questions attached to the tag in question are not items supporting a commercial product - they are practice problems set by Exercism that are posted for review and discussion).
    – halfer
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:33
  • 1
    I'll have to agree to disagree on your views. I don't see my statements coming across as "implied bad faith". I'm merely speaking to my opinion that the tag doesn't make sense to be here, but I'm not saying that they were bad AND should feel bad for creating it.
    – Makoto
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:35
  • Thanks @Makoto. For clarity, since "bad faith" may be a problematic term, are you saying you believe the guidelines you outline were broken knowingly? That's my point, I guess: I don't think they were.
    – halfer
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:38
  • 2
    I don't think they were either. That's what I'm getting at when I say, "That alone makes me think that someone from the Community Management Team should have a word with these folks." Asking someone from CM to have a word with them comes across as, to me, more of a friendly chiding rather than shouting that they broke the rules and need to be punished severely.
    – Makoto
    Mar 11, 2015 at 15:40

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .