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This question: Entity Framework 4 vs NHibernate has had a historical lock, but not anymore. However, the question is clearly not in keeping with the site's standards not to encourage open, broad, discussion-provoking questions.

Still, to my surprise, close votes were removed from this question after the lock was removed (Mar 8 '12). I can tell, because when I try to close it, it says...

You voted to close this question May 5 '14 at 8:39

...but there are no close votes anymore. It has not been closed and reopened afterwards, so I think the close votes were removed by a moderator.

But exactly what happened here is not my actual question.

I tried to close this question because I have these moments of conscientious dutifulness, but at the same time I think: why, it's an interesting question! The topic is relevant to a broad audience, StackOverflow-worthy, if StackOverflow wants to be the go-to site for canonical programming answers.

So my question is:

  1. (Changed now, see below) Should we (or moderators) have a way to mark such ongoing interesting, continually updatable topics as a (rare) exception to the rule? For instance by a text similar to that of the historical lock:

    This question is kept open because it is significant to a wide audience and is likely to be updated frequently, but it is not considered a good, on-topic question for this site, so please do not use it as evidence that you can ask similar questions here.

    To be absolutely clear: this should not be a lock. On the contrary, it should stimulate people to update the question with new insights.

  2. If not (but I prefer 1.), shouldn't we be able to close such questions without having these close votes removed?

Please vote up (pro option 1) or down (against option 1). I know how voting at meta works :).

Edit

I was not aware of the possibility to lock the question as "collaborative effort". To me that would be the best thing to do here. So my option 1 is now: mark this question as collaborative effort?

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    The answer to #1 is that moderators have an option to lock the question as "collaborative effort" which focuses efforts on updating a single canonical answer.
    – BoltClock
    Mar 1, 2015 at 18:41
  • @BoltClock That sounds great (and I'm surprised I never noticed that). What would happen to existing answers in that case? Mar 1, 2015 at 18:43
  • General cleanup, which means making all CW, merging everything interesting into the best answer, and deleting the rest. Mar 1, 2015 at 19:27
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    Just for clarification: you were the only person that ever voted to close the question. Your close vote automatically aged away four days later because the question never attracted any more close votes. This question had never once been closed before an hour ago. The historical lock had been applied to it while it was still in its open state. Just thought I'd point out the history of the question since there's some misinformation in your question here.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Mar 2, 2015 at 0:03
  • @animuson Thanks for clarifying this. I'm glad that at least we have drawn a clear line now with this question. Mar 2, 2015 at 9:44

1 Answer 1

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What's the actual value of a question like this, though? What value does the question already have in it?

Since I'm more of a Java person, I'm not familiar with either Entity Framework or NHibernate, but since I believe that NHibernate is analogous to Hibernate, I could infer that both of these are ORM products.

Now, the question being posed is a comparison between the two products, more with a slant on the opinion that Entity Framework will displace NHibernate in the "near future" (this was written back in '09, of course).

Two things strike me as this sort of question not being desirable here.

  1. The real underlying question is an opinion poll.

    We can say that today NHibernate is the leader among all .NET ORMs, but can we expect Entity Framework 4 to displace NHibernate from this position.

    Only time could have answered this question. It very may well be that time has answered this question, too.

  2. None of the answers do a job of actually comparing these two ORMs together.

    The closest any of them come would probably be this answer, which devolves into more of a rant about what's broken/missing in EF than actually comparing the two products. But what do we get out of it at the end?

    What about NHibernate? It's absolutely different level, it's like comparing PHP to C#, EF4 is like in Stone-age, it's like EF is 10 years behind then NHibernate in development progress, and in fact it is, Hibernate was started in 2001. If you have free time to learn and switch on Nhibernate, do it.

    An opinion. Nothing objective, no unbiased comparison, nothing. Just an opinion.

These sorts of questions don't belong on SO, regardless of how interesting they may be. Only in the most special of cases, when the community has actually done a good job of maintaining a question like this, should it be preserved.

There's nothing here that I could glean from not having worked with either that would influence my decision on which to use. I don't feel like I've actually gained any information about the difference between these two ORM products.

Humble opinion: kill it with fire.

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  • I'm an EF enthusiast, but that's absolutely not the same as an EF evangelist. To me even these rant-like answers are very interesting because they offer tons of useful information. I don't care about people's opinions. Everybody has an opinion. So to me this question has great value and I'm sure that many people are still looking for this comparison. Of course, people could try to be a bit more fair to both sides of the comparison. Making this a collaborative effort would probably encourage this. Mar 1, 2015 at 19:18
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    Yes, but now you're encouraging opinion and subjective discussion. That's something that runs counter to the goal of the site.
    – Makoto
    Mar 1, 2015 at 19:19
  • Not encouraging (see my last sentences), accepting the inevitable. Mar 1, 2015 at 19:21
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    Yes, but that's not what we want. The site is meant to be for Q&A; you find expert answers to your questions. If you're going to allow for an open-ended discussion to it, that's only inviting trouble.
    – Makoto
    Mar 1, 2015 at 19:22
  • OK, I agree with you that the subject is more opinionated than e.g. this. I wouldn't mind trying though and also keeping an eye on it. It just make me feel bad that people would have to go to other, equally opinionated (and often ill-informed) comparisons elsewhere, while we've got this number-one site where I would expect this expert answer too. And it puzzles me why apparently someone didn't think the question should be closed. Maybe moderators are only human... Mar 1, 2015 at 19:42
  • @GertArnold The question you just linked is ALSO a bad fit for Stack Overflow, but it had enough existing value that people wanted to keep it around. Thus it is locked. Mar 1, 2015 at 21:02
  • @JasonMArcher I know... (not sure what you're trying to tell me). I think "bad fit" + "value" exactly describe the reason to "lock" a question as "collaborative effort". Mar 1, 2015 at 21:13
  • Yes, and I think the point of the opinions so far is that the originally referenced question is a bad fit and offers no value (or at least not nearly enough value). Mar 1, 2015 at 21:15
  • @GertArnold: only in exceptional cases would it be considered. This doesn't feel exceptional.
    – Makoto
    Mar 1, 2015 at 21:16

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