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Recently, I mentioned my Stack Overflow reputation points to a potential employer, although I didn't send them the link to my profile yet.

Apparently, two days ago, someone (I have no idea who or why) serial upvoted my posts, and yesterday it was reversed. Now my reputation points screen has a red, publicly-visible "serial upvoting reversed -80", and I think it makes the rest of my reputation points look suspect.

Obviously, someone who did try to game the system would deserve the scarlet letter. I have no idea how to establish that I don't know anything about the serial upvoting -- I was in top 4% for quarter with over 400 reputation points before the upvoting, since creating this account less than a month ago (I abandoned my previous account when I was a beginner years ago), so I didn't need the 80 points.

Is there any way to establish or just affirm that I don't know anything about the serial upvoting and have the red -80 not displayed? I know Stack Overflow is promoting using the site to show off to employers, and this makes me extremely reluctant to mention my Stack Overflow reputation points to a potential employer.

EDIT: To be clear, I don't care about the number, don't want the points restored, and don't think it's "all" that potential employers look at on Stack Overflow. I am concerned someone browsing my profile will think the "serial upvoting reversed -80" is because I tried to juice my own score and got caught. This is what looks bad.

As @Michael Geary notes, the "learn more" link leads to a page where it says the reversal is because of voting fraud, voting fraud is emboldened, yet in finer print it says that users are docked points after being victims of voting fraud -- a very counter-intuitive idea. Knowing users can be docked points due to other users' actions with which they had nothing to do is counter-intuitive and not at all automatic.

EDIT 2: Added feature-request tag per BoltClock's suggestion, "Perhaps it [Serial upvoting reversed] should only be made visible to moderators and the user themselves. It's not like this information is useful to anyone else except for public shaming anyway."

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  • 195
    Perhaps it should only be made visible to moderators and the user themselves. It's not like this information is useful to anyone else except for public shaming anyway. Not sure if a case would have to be made for hiding serial downvote reversals as well, though - having something that's almost invariably an injustice against you written off is something quite different.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 19:15
  • 38
    Hmm, It's arguable at all if SO rep is a real good reference for any potential employer. (at least at this rep stage you are). Note: I don't want to sound arrogant, but 433 isn't that significant (yet). Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 19:47
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    Wow, I just clicked on the (learn more) link next to your "serial upvoting reversed" note. That page is about the most tone-deaf thing I have read today (second only to Lenovo's comments about their SuperFish scandal). Does StackExchange realize that they have accused someone of fraud (it's even bolded!) who very likely had completely innocent intentions? Maybe they are an iOS developer who truly found your other answers helpful. Fraud is a very serious charge, and I would not take it lightly if it were directed at me. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 21:55
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    Remember we're talking about voting fraud in imaginary internet points. They have no value and as @πάνταῥεῖ says.. especially at your level.
    – crthompson
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 21:59
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    And adding injury to insult, putting that bolded comment about voting fraud will do little to comfort your potential employer who follows that link in the hope of learning why your reputation plummeted. That page needs a serious rewrite that is respectful to all parties concerned. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 22:02
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    These are not "imaginary internet points". We are talking about a situation where a potential employer may look at your SO profile, see something suspicious, and be led to a page where the most prominent words are voting fraud. That may well cause real loss of reputation in the real world. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 22:04
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    @MichaelSand: Clearly you do, based on your opening words: "Recently I mentioned my Stack Overflow reputation to a potential employer". I wouldn't have done that with just 533 rep. Heck, I feel dirty pretending that even 143,000 rep is an indication of anything at all, when discussing it with a recruiter. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 23:07
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    Can't think of a good reason why a correction in rep should be displayed on the victim's profile. (Assuming they weren't complicit). I would hope an employer wouldn't rate points over content too.
    – Sobrique
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 23:09
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    Definitely should not show that in the history at all, except for the logged in user or the mods. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 23:16
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    @HansPassant the problem is that if they see this while doing initial checks on you, you may be disqualified before you even get the chance to explain. I'd be worried too. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 23:42
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    @πάνταῥεῖ I've had a couple of potential employers reach out based on my participation in StackOverflow. I can't say how deeply they looked into my profile, but it would be a mistake to assume they aren't looking or it doesn't matter. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 23:45
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit: Enough with the comparing point totals, please? Instead, take a look at Michael's actual answers. These answers not only demonstrate knowledge of some difficult topics in iOS development, but the ability to communicate well and and the desire to help other developers. Any prospective employer should be impressed, whether the author's point total is 400 or 400,000. Commented Feb 20, 2015 at 1:05
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    Well of course none of us were in on that conversation, were we? :-) How do we know that it wasn't something like this: "My SO rep is about 600. That's not a lot, but I've only been on there for a month. I try to write solid answers that explain tricky problems clearly, and people seem to appreciate them so far. I'll send you the link so you can look through the answers yourself." Commented Feb 20, 2015 at 1:28
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    I feel the issue here is that we can't necessarily assume that the most-apt member of a company (or recruitment firm) is going to be doing the one screening the initial candidates. If the CTO has enough time, personally, to peruse each profile (of every applicant, not the screened ones), that's not likely a CTO I'd want. If an HR or contract recruiter or junior dev was doing initial screening of all resumes, which included SO profile links, a "-400" bulk decrease and FRAUD in my recent-history might mean I never get the chance to be read by the right person, like the other candidates.
    – LetterEh
    Commented Feb 20, 2015 at 2:51
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    Wow... this is an upsetting question. I sit here stunned at the realization that I may have been guilty of infractions that, while innocent in intention, may have harmed people I intended to support! I've learned so much here on SO, and when I find a well written and helpful answer, I immediately search out other answers by this same guru. If the answers are helpful/illuminating to me, I will upvote them. It never occurred to me that might be a problem. Suggestion: SO should detect this behaviour and pop-up an advisory note. Bad idea to criminalize innocent and understandable behavior.
    – crashwap
    Commented Feb 21, 2015 at 0:03

3 Answers 3

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We can't hide these entirely, but the text for reverted votes is now a more ambiguous "Voting corrected" rather than directly implying a specific cause:

Voting corrected

The linked Help Center page has also been revised with a more neutral tone.

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First off, if you're gonna send a link to your profile to a potential employer, make sure you tell 'em to read your posts. And if they don't, be very worried.

If they do visit your rep history & comment on the entry, make sure they've read the help center topic discussing it. Specifically, the last paragraph:

Should I be concerned about reversal statements on my profile?

No, not at all. It's only an indication of reputation change. After all, we can't control the actions of other users. It's very rare where we'd run across a user who was committing the voting fraud themselves on their own account, and in most instances of that, they will have already been dealt with accordingly. You should in no way be concerned with reversal statements in your reputation history.

Granted, if your rep history is mostly reversals (and mostly not votes) then that would be pretty damning - I probably wouldn't be showing such a profile to most employers. But that's not the case for yours.

See also: Please hide "serial upvoting reversed" entries in the public reputation history

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    Thanks for the link to the other question. Very disappointing that this was brought to their attention in 2012, with 48 upvotes, and not acted upon. In this particular case the person I mentioned it to is technical, and I specifically mentioned my posts, most being in a tricky subfield. But a primary benefit of having a numeric score is it's shorthand; having to explain why your account was docked points ruins that benefit. Worse, I'm not sure when/where to mention this: Preemptively? The fact an explanation is needed means saying we should be concerned "No, not at all." is not correct.
    – Mike Sand
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 19:42
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    I'd quite honestly forgotten about it. If folks still support this, it should be trivial to hide it; I'll make a note to follow up.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 20:06
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    Thanks- actually the comment I made about 2012 isn't fair, because personally I wouldn't care at all, and the attitude in the FAQ statement would be fine-- except that since SO is now pushing this for employers, which is great, it could lead someone checking out a profile to jump to the conclusion someone is trying to game their rep.
    – Mike Sand
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 20:33
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    I'd tend to agree with @Shog9 here. If that's all your potential employer looked at, then, maybe they might see you in a bad light, but honestly, I don't think any employer who would care enough to look you up on StackOverflow would only look at your reputation. One of the primary things that makes SO such a great tool for employers is you can actually get a glimpse at how the potential hire handles problems, writes code, etc. I doubt they care if your rep is 100 or 100,000. If your answers are good, that's all that will matter. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 21:06
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    @ChrisPratt You have more faith than me in every person who might check my profile. Mentioning the number (and speed) has been useful already, at least as a starter, and now I'm reluctant to call it out specifically knowing there's a kind of asterisk attached to it. Ironically if someone looked only at the number it wouldn't be an issue. It is if they specifically asked "where did this reputation come from?" and clicked on the "reputation" tab to find out, and jump to conclusions. The idea that users can be docked points for reasons they had nothing to do with is not at all automatic.
    – Mike Sand
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 21:36
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    Rep in general is a poor indicator of anything. Most of my rep came from a platform I haven't used now in over 2 years. The nature of SO is that you will typically answer questions from a wife range of tech. As someone who is responsible for hiring, I would look at the user's answers specially related to the areas I'm hiring for. Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 21:56
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    @ChrisPratt but the person doing the hiring might not be the person doing the first-pass candidate screening (and given a technical/senior/corporate enough position, assuredly won't be). If a screener lands on your profile, and there in the "reputation" (a word that carries weight, elsewhere, even if it means little more than 'points earned', here) there's a gigantic -400 rep, yesterday, due to "click-fraud", that's a screener unlikely to think I have a "good reputation", even just at a gut-check level; akin to having a bad CV -- preemptively failed for the wrong reasons.
    – LetterEh
    Commented Feb 20, 2015 at 4:08
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    "And if they don't, be very worried." +1
    – Peter
    Commented Feb 20, 2015 at 4:34
  • If there is something looking like -80 on someones profile with the statement of "serial voting", I would also suggest, a serial voter badge, maybe black in color, for those who have serially voted, and not dealt(profile not deleted) with yet Commented Feb 20, 2015 at 7:07
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    "If they do visit your rep history & comment on the entry, make sure they've read the help center topic discussing it. Specifically, the last paragraph" -- But we can't make sure of that. We have no control over what they do and what faulty conclusions they jump to if they scan that page and see the bolded words voting fraud. They might not even bother to explain why you won't be called back for an interview.
    – Desty
    Commented Feb 20, 2015 at 14:24
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    A comment that seems relevant to make: if I'm applying to Megatech Firm Inc, and I say look at what I'm doing on SO, I expect the recruiter to read what my answers are and discern my programming ability. But if I'm applying to local non-tech small business who is hiring their first programmer I'll point them to my account here and expect my reputation to convince them that I can do basic python programming, because if they understood my answers they wouldn't be hiring a programmer. If they instead see that I appear to be committing voting fraud, well no job for me.
    – Joel
    Commented Feb 21, 2015 at 10:05
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    @Joel You expect a recruiter to read code? That's not what recruiters are doing. At least not any of the ones I met. They don't evaluate candidates on a technical level. They scan resumes for experience and a few keywords, check candidate availability, and then forward the resume to the hiring manager. That's where the technical evaluation starts. Commented Feb 21, 2015 at 18:27
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    It is extremely unrealistic to educate future employers about Stack Overflow policies.
    – usr
    Commented Feb 22, 2015 at 18:18
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    @Joel I've met, perhaps two recruiting firms who were boutique, high-priced, high-tech recruiters, such that they did their own technical interviews/assessments (atop of the typical "pre-job interview interview") prior to making suggestions to clients. The clients tended to be people like the parent company for AirMiles, or other internationals tied to loyalty or credit-lending... The rest of the recruiters I've talked with have been much less technical; still helpful, nice, discerning, even, but not technical. I can look at your "reputation" right now, and at a glance, I can tell, in general-
    – LetterEh
    Commented Feb 24, 2015 at 2:48
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    how helpful your answers are, in perpetuity. A recruiter who is non-technical, who has a stack of keywords and a job description, might look at that profile tab as a quick indicator of how helpful you've been, on a timeline, for things which might match those keywords. There are, in fact, no other pages which offer such a quick overview aside from your own handwritten profile, as far as a non-technical researcher goes... ...or even a technical resource who is now sifting through 23 potential candidates, while also doing their day job, and thus, can't rank each on the quality of their answers.
    – LetterEh
    Commented Feb 24, 2015 at 2:55
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If they implement BoltClock's suggestion that would solve the problem.

In the meantime, point anyone who thinks you did something wrong to "What is serial voting and how does it affect me?". Specifically:

Should I be concerned about reversal statements on my profile?

No, not at all. It's only an indication of reputation change. After all, we can't control the actions of other users. It's very rare where we'd run across a user who was committing the voting fraud themselves on their own account, and in most instances of that, they will have already been dealt with accordingly. You should in no way be concerned with reversal statements in your reputation history.

Explain that the reversal is there because someone else did something they should not have. And you may also point out that it is possible for people to serial upvote someone else without realizing that this is what they are doing. Someone finds an answer that they like, click on the user profile, start reading other answers that they like and pretty soon they are serially voting. There's nothing evil going on here but the system sees it as undesirable.

An employer who does not get this, or who will eliminate a candidate without knowing that serial voting means is probably not someone you want to work for.

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    I absolutely agree with BoltClock's suggestion. The fact that we're talking about how you might explain this mark to potential employers and communicate to them "it's not what it looks like, I have no idea how this happened, please don't hold it against me" indicates "No, not at all.... You should in no way be concerned with reversal statements in your reputation history" is outdated.
    – Mike Sand
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 19:49
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    @MichaelSand maybe put that suggestion in as a feature request if you really like the suggestion.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 20:13
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    It's not where you'd have no idea how it happened, and if you were unable to explain it, it might make you look dumb. You say someone voted on a bunch of posts they liked of yours, but the system reversed it because it thought there might have been something nefarious going on with that person - not you. I agree it can make it look like you hired someone to upvote you a lot and got caught, but would you be sharing your rep with employers if you did? I doubt it. But as another said, if the screener doesn't ask you about it if they see it, and skips you, they probably aren't worth your time.
    – vapcguy
    Commented Feb 21, 2015 at 4:22

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