16

I don't understand how my edits to this question do not improve its readability "even a little," and I suspect that the canned explanation is shorthand for something that I'm not fully aware of. Can someone explain what might have happened here?

I've seen people edit just a single space into a post before, so I don't accept that the changes were genuinely insignificant. Therefore, there must have been something 'wrong' with the edits themselves (though not enough for everyone to agree). How can I prevent this kind of thing from happening again? Did I just draw an unlucky review panel? Is it legitimate to resubmit edits if the rejection criteria don't make sense? (I don't imagine it is, so here I am, asking.)

15
  • As a postscript, I understand how a "single space" can be deeply significant, if it occurs in a line of code or between two words that become a new, different term when united. This example is not such a case.
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 7:55
  • 24
    This is hilarious. On one hand, we have people approving clearly useless edits. On the other hand, those same people are rejecting significant edits on the basis that they "are superfluous or actively harm readability". It's clear that there are certain things we will never agree on.
    – BoltClock
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:03
  • @BoltClock Do you think I'm on-base with my edits? I feel like this kind of thing happens a lot, but without knowing why, it's hard to respond to it. I get how the stock criteria are really useful for QC and time-saving, but I just don't get how these ones apply, or how three people (or even just the first) arrived at the conclusion that the edits did not improve, or active harmed, the quality of the article. I understand that these open-source databases are mercurial and strange sometimes, but...
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:10
  • 5
    I think that edit is OK, in particular the title was a significant improvement. I don't see how any of your changes actively harm readability - they do the opposite, in fact.
    – BoltClock
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:13
  • Would it then be acceptable to resubmit these edits, perhaps less the bold assumption that the author might have been referring back to their own example, regarding 'nothingThere'? If the rejection is a done deal, then so it goes, but I feel like at least most of my edits are valid and the problems can be fixed.
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:16
  • The general guideline is to only resubmit once at most - any more and that would be pushing it no matter how strongly you believe your edit is correct. I can vet the edit for you... assuming others don't get to it first.
    – BoltClock
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:18
  • Then I'll make the corrections and resubmit it this first time. Thanks for the help!
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:19
  • @BoltClock Thanks again for the help. I guess the lesson learned is stay the hell away from body text unless it is certifiably wrong (and even then...), at least until I can ram my own ideas through purely on force of rep. :v I'm glad there's a good mechanism for reviewing these things. I'm happy to learn about the acceptability of repeat-edits, too.
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:28
  • 1
    @Augusta I would've personally done a Reject and Edit for this suggested edit if I had privileges to participate in this review queue as it was a perfectly valid edit, but introduced content that wasn't there originally.
    – AStopher
    Feb 5, 2015 at 13:08
  • 3
    @ʎǝʞuoɯɹǝqʎɔ I think one of the big take-aways from this whole exercise for me is that it's sketchy to make edits that describe the implicit circumstances of a question, merely mopping up the language and straightening out markup. I would not have through that actually naming the error that code is obviously set up to throw would have been a problem, but I find myself corrected, and I can (sort of) see why it would be a problem for some people. It's certainly worth knowing.
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 13:14
  • * rather than merely mopping up, sorry.
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 13:33
  • 1
    Just an idea, but perhaps people are rejecting this specific edit because it looks too much like one of the honeypot "edits" and people are reflexively choosing to reject the edit because they don't know that it's a good edit. And when rejecting edits, you get to see how others have voted previously on the same edit, so maybe it's just herd mentality. Most of the "reject" votes come from people without a lot of rep (not saying anything about rep, I have approximately the same amount). Perhaps it's that simple.
    – L0j1k
    Feb 7, 2015 at 21:22
  • I'd probably reject this edit because I find the original just as readable as the edited question. However, I find it very surprising that your edit was rejected by three people who don't have much of a record of rejecting edits but accepted by a guy who appears to be doing honest reviewing.
    – tmyklebu
    Feb 8, 2015 at 2:37
  • @BoltClock what evidence do you have that those are the same people?
    – user253751
    Feb 8, 2015 at 8:04
  • 1
    @immibis: None. My comment was hyperbole. But we do have entire classes of reviewers whose idea of what makes a good edit and a bad edit seems completely contrary to the rest, and spending enough time in the review queues will clue you in on to these categories of reviewers.
    – BoltClock
    Feb 8, 2015 at 8:07

3 Answers 3

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Suggested edits need to be more substantial than regular edits, because suggested edits are subject to review by multiple users and they need to be worth the +2 rep that is awarded to the editor on approval. We also want users to demonstrate that they can make significant improvements to a post when needed before granting them full editing privileges (assuming they don't get to 2k rep first).

Personally, I'm not seeing how that edit "actively harms readability" — it does the opposite, in fact. The title edit in particular was a significant improvement (if only because I prefer titles that are grammatically complete question statements).

Is it legitimate to resubmit edits if the rejection criteria don't make sense?

The general guideline is to only resubmit an edit once at most — any more and that would be pushing it no matter how strongly you believe your edit is correct. You can update your edit summary to communicate why you believe your edit makes sense, and hopefully reviewers will pay attention to it.

6
  • Often if my edit it rejected and it's a perfectly legitimate edit suggestion, I'll seek out the user via Chat to determine exactly why they thought it was an incorrect edit.
    – AStopher
    Feb 5, 2015 at 13:04
  • I've been meaning to take a look at chat, actually. Not sure exactly how it works, but if you can do that with it, then it'd certainly be worth my while.
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 13:35
  • Is it actually policy that suggested edits need to be more significant, or is it just a matter of course that they need to be more significant than non-review edits because reviewers feel that their time needs to be justified?
    – Augusta
    Feb 8, 2015 at 3:04
  • @Augusta: It's why there is a 6-character minimum imposed on suggested edits.
    – BoltClock
    Feb 8, 2015 at 6:16
  • @BoltClock Even so, that's pretty much the fifth-lowest bar I could think of for a restriction. I was thinking more along the lines of, "Although you've improved the article, the improvement is too minor to warrant my making all of the mouseclicks to get here, so, spitefully, Reject." I can imagine some users doing that, but since this seems to have been the first rejection one fairly accomplished reviewer made, I can't picture that being totally the case.
    – Augusta
    Feb 9, 2015 at 1:32
  • @Augusta the 6 character limit a major problem for languages like C++. You end up having to make changes to whitespace to make the 6 char limit (e.g. when changing a postfix increment to a prefix decrement - a significant change) yet the edit can potentially get rejected by a reviewer due to the whitespace changes, not realizing the importance of the actual change.
    – jmc
    Mar 25, 2015 at 15:47
10

If we go through all the suggested changes one by one:

  • Title change was very good. It made the title easier to read and also correctly (according to SO policies) removed the superfluous "python" which was already obvious from the tags.
  • "using the safe config parser" to SafeConfigParser:

    Minor edit, does not make the post easier nor harder to read.

  • "The last line of course will throw an error" to "Predictably, the last line will throw NoOptionError, since nothingThere has not be defined in the config file."

    Here you are making things up that was not in the original post. Whether or not your edits are technically correct (which I don't know), you are making radical changes to the question. There was no need to edit anything here, beyond minor grammar.

  • config.get() to config.get().

    Minor edit, does not make the post easier nor harder to read. Although it is generally good to put code inside code formatting.

  • "There seems to be no way to specify a default for job1 different to a default in options section job2." to "...there seems to be no way to specify default options for job1 different from the default options in section job2".

    The original grammar was odd and needed a minor fix. The code formatting did not make the post easier or harder to read. The peculiar "...there" in the beginning of the sentence is grammatically incorrect, so you added a new grammar error while fixing others.

  • The first of these two tags are just nonsense tags, they add nothing of value and does not make the post easier to find. The third tag is possibly useful, I don't know the technical details to tell. The op also had a tag which was also just nonsense, you could have removed that one.


Overall, you did some good edits that fixed grammar, but also some bad edits that were too radical, incorrect or just superfluous. So I think the edit reviewers were correct in rejecting: edits should not cause harm or contain errors.

If your edits had just fixed the title and grammar, the edit would have been good and should have been approved.

7
  • 2
    I do dispute "Here you are making things up", as it was just written differently, or later. And applying the proper formatting is always a slight improvement, though in these cases it would not have been enough for an edit-suggestion. Feb 5, 2015 at 12:54
  • @Deduplicator The name of the exception etc was not mentioned in the original post. If not made up by the editor, then where did the name come from?
    – Lundin
    Feb 5, 2015 at 12:56
  • 1
    It really is too bad that more people don't take the time to explain their rationale instead of slapping a canned excuse in there. I'm not sure I agree with all of your points, of course, but it certainly is useful to read them, whether I agree or not. Obviously, it's a lot of work to explain all of it, and I wouldn't expect quite this degree of exposition in the review pane. But at least you've shown some thought instead of a response that could have been anything from a misclick to a hand-wavy brushoff to a nervewracking, painful decision. I'll consider this in the future!
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 12:58
  • @Lundin Also, the name of the exception isn't made up. The original author mentions the exception, and simply doesn't name it explicitly. If they ran the code they pasted, they could have only thrown that error. It's a safe assumption in view of the fact that 1) they identify that it throws an error as a foregone conclusion, 2) they're running a try block, which recommends that the exception is expected, and 3) if I could make up and insert imaginary exceptions into other peoples' code four years in the past, I wouldn't be messing around here in the first place. ;)
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 13:02
  • 3
    @Augusta: The reviewers don't know that the exception you named is the same one the original author meant. You should assume reviewers are non-experts.
    – Kevin
    Feb 5, 2015 at 19:49
  • 1
    @Kevin That's... hugely disappointing, but a very useful point. I guess it doesn't make sense to expect people who come out of nowhere to know as much about the question context as someone whose spent time editing it to, and asking them to familiarize themselves with it would be way too time consuming. It would be nice, though, if the rejection rationale was at least consistent with the content of the edit...
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 23:29
  • Regarding default and default-value, I’ve written a proposal to remove or at least merge them: Default to [default] tag when asking about [default-value]s. Jul 2, 2020 at 22:37
-3

I would have rejected it because you reformatted the post in such a way it was half an answer to the OP's question.

7
  • 6
    Can you name an example of how I did that? I was actually trying to be careful not to say anything the author didn't say or clearly apply knowledge of.
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:03
  • just take a look to op's line beneath the code block and then your example beneath the code block. It totally altered everything. You added sentences like since 'nothingThere' has not be defined in the config file. Feb 5, 2015 at 8:05
  • 6
    @Michael Dibbets: That particular statement is implied by the OP saying "of course". It doesn't answer anything.
    – BoltClock
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:11
  • 2
    Still you cannot be sure if the OP would have wanted it there. Editing a post is mostly reserved for improving grammar, correcting formatting errors etc... Adding whole new sentences is not the intention of editing posts, also, by keeping the original post in place with original wording gives an indication of OP's knowledge. Feb 5, 2015 at 8:12
  • True - nobody likes having words put in their mouths.
    – BoltClock
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:14
  • I suppose there's ambiguity there, then. Are there any other examples?
    – Augusta
    Feb 5, 2015 at 8:16
  • 3
    @MichaelDibbets Valid edits also include keeping a post up-to-date, implying that adding/removing sentences constitutes a valid edit as long as it is justified.
    – AStopher
    Feb 5, 2015 at 13:06

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