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The bottom line of post-bans and creating new accounts has in the past always been "don't try to circumvent bans in that way, it will get you into trouble". Now, disregarding some of the feasibility issues of that statement, that used to be the default answer.

Getting out of a ban once you've hit it is (apparently) not always that trivial. To help users out a bit more they are now warned well before hitting a ban. And it seems that in at least some instances of users showing effort and improvements, posts too bad to recover from are disassociated to help them out.

All fair enough, but something strikes me as odd. Recently I was looking at the canonical post on bans again: What can I do when getting “We are no longer accepting questions/answers from this account”?

After an edit made a while ago it now states:

Can I simply create a new account?

Yes, but your ability to ask questions will be limited to one question per week until you can demonstrate an adequate level of quality in your contributions.

Wait ... what?

Are we now essentially saying "if you get banned, just create a new account"? Sure, you'll be limited in the amount of questions you can ask, but you can keep asking.

And if that is really the case (by all means correct me if I misinterpret the statement), why are we still banning in the first place? Why not just throttle. I'm not suggesting that is a good thing to do, but this setup (if I'm correct) seems somewhat awkward.

So what is going on here? Do we really say "go ahead, create a new account"? Do we mean to say something else and do we need to update the text? Or ...

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  • 1
    AFAIK the statement from the canonical post is only valid if people ask for deletion of their account and then register again with the same credentials - which is of course useless as it's less of a hassle (and does AFAIK not lead to any limitation) to simply create a new gmail account and register with that one. That seems to happen fairly often, see e.g. this, this(deleted) or this(deleted).
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 14:05
  • 1
    Hmm, that would be a welcome clarification @l4mpi. But even then we're generally (I have to assume) talking about accounts that aren't in a good shape. So why not get rid of the old account, keep your credentials, and continue asking. Yeah, you got rid of some of your associated content, but hey, who cares? I'm still missing some of the logic here. (Then again, maybe I really am as dense as people tell me I am ;) )
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 14:10
  • So far I had assumed that this new throttling was the same that applies to the orginal account as per this announced change: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/236568/… . Throttling instead of outright banning seems like a sensible solution to me. If this is only applied if the user creates a new account that seems pretty pointless and should be changed.
    – HugoRune
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 14:12
  • @HugoRune I'm pretty sure throttling is not applied only if the user creates a new account. The people in the know were pretty clear that throttling is something that happens before you get to the ban stage. That a new account may start already throttled does not change this.
    – Louis
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 14:24
  • I even modestly requested why I am treated like that in meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/284248/…, you may like to read
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 14:28
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    @Ahmad maybe it's just me but I think your first and original question was far different from the one Bart has asked here. It seems you have asked how to use your old email address to create a new account while here we seem to be discussion the logic behind allowing users to do that.
    – user2140173
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 14:29
  • 31
    @Ahmad - The negative reaction to your question was in response to you asking how to create a new account. The community strongly rejects working around system safeguards in that manner. Bart's question is asking why we seemingly encourage people to perform these workarounds, if the community has come out against them. Different questions, different responses.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 15:41
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    how do they relate two different accounts and come to the conclusion that the same entity "owns" all of those accounts? By IP address?
    – Ryan
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 6:04
  • 3
    I think this is a case of 'don't take Internet things too seriously'. Otherwise, what else can reasonably be done in an enforceable way without harming legitimate users? Block new account creation by IP (what about people on NAT...or Tor)? Tell people that they can't create a new account, even though in practice they can? Then threaten to sue over ToS violations if they're caught subverting a ban? Actually waste time/money suing people? I think virtually every other site on the Internet that allows open registrations works like SO. At least SO is honest enough to admit it.
    – aroth
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 6:33
  • Community pushing people to do that. There is no way to lift question or flag bans. System does not doing that automatically, even you edit your questions again.
    – GLHF
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 6:58
  • 1
    It's not like you can prevent banned users from creating a new account. Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 9:14
  • 5
    Hence the remark about feasibility @CodesInChaos. It's something different to explicitly state "oh, just create a new account" though. (Yes, I'm exaggerating) At the very least that's a shift in policy if that is what was meant.
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 9:16
  • 2
    Just had someone tell us directly in a mod message about their multiple question ban evasion accounts: "But trust me, I read somewhere also that it is allowed to create a new profile to avoid question ban." Take that as you will.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Feb 6, 2015 at 15:44
  • I guess my question informs you about how I take that @BradLarson ;)
    – Bart
    Commented Feb 6, 2015 at 15:45

4 Answers 4

46

That FAQ was... Potentially misleading. I've edited it to be a bit more accurate:

Can I simply create a new account?

Yes, but doing so violates the rules for operating multiple accounts - namely, it allows you to do something you would otherwise be restricted from doing. Penalties for violating this restriction can vary:

  • Your accounts may be deleted without warning.
  • You and others on your network may find your questions are shown to fewer potential answerers or subjected to preemptive review when posted.
  • You and others on your network may be prevented from asking questions entirely.
  • If you opt to delete your account and then later return to the site, your ability to ask questions may be limited to one question per week until you have demonstrated an ability to ask useful questions.
3
  • Do I have to worry about a network wide suspension?
    – Muze
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 17:55
  • 13
    Depends. Are you going to visit each site in turn, carefully pausing at each stop to not listen to anything anyone tells you?
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 18:25
  • 1
    absolutely. I've been reading everything and taking it all in.
    – Muze
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 19:28
12

If you think you can not solve the problem of getting around the ban by simply creating a new account (which seems is not easy), we can decrease the tendency to do that in destructive ways. Hiding this possibility or even warning about it doesn't help much in long term when the workflow is imperfect. Even if full blockage was possible I wouldn't prescribe it.

The short answer: The policy and system workflow should be in a way that at least honest people and those who want to learn and progress don't feel that creating new account is their only way.

One solution is a rolling rate limits as part of the question-block system. This means, users will get more chances to write better contributions. As I found this policy is in practice from October 12th 2014.

More information about the policy shift could be found here: What is the reasoning behind limiting "recidivists" to post one question per week? and Breaking down question blocks - let's talk about rate limits

What does this get us?

People that treat questions as a resource that can be depleted, who learn how to ask questions only when they really need to and make them count when they do. Or, they keep throwing themselves at the wall and then get stuck in the mean hairy algorithm...

The result should be, those that can be helped are helped, those that can't get stuck in the room with the big, mean hairy algorithm, and deleting your account no longer helps...

The long answer: I am a banned user for three months and can explain the issue from the perspective of a banned user.

As I am working on a project, during this time I was faced with some questions. Banning might force me to search more for my questions and most of the time I could find answers to my questions, or add my answers to the existing similar questions. But there was time I needed to ask a question which couldn't be found easily.

If I had the chance to ask one question per week (more or less):

  • Certainly I would use it to ask my most important questions which I couldn't find elsewhere.
  • As a new question has many visitors, it would be a great chance for me to show improvements in my skill to ask questions.

Please note few voters reconsider their vote to an old question no matter how much I improve it. Moreover, some questions are not salvageable because they shouldn't be asked in the first place. There are also some good questions which are not common to be revisited. These lead that a user who could learn and progress get stuck in the ban for a long time and feels he/she has no way than creating a new account.

Considering above, an intelligent system which limits the number of questions one can ask based on the history of his questions can be regarded an improvement to the question-ban system and meanwhile decrease the tendency of getting around the ban.

There are many users who like to keep their identity and regain their account. This way they positively cooperate to achieve it, it has no contradiction with improving the old questions. Otherwise, when they can't ask any questions and feel their only way is to create a new account they won't bother to go back and improve their existing questions.

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  • 24
    Thanks for your answer. My question isn't really "why is this good for an otherwise banned user?" though. The obvious outcome of the statement would indeed be that you can keep asking questions. That it's useful to you personally is obvious, and not my point. If you are however stating "this is exactly why the policy was changed, as I have been informed" then by all means provide your sources for it. If there is an explanation out there, I'd like to hear it. The point is more that this seems to be a policy shift. I want to know if it has taken place, and if so, what motivated it.
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 8:57
  • 2
    @Bart I explained how it's good both to me (the banned user) and also the website while full blockage is bad again for both of us. In brief I say, we have no solution, we can't easily block creating a new account (there are some consequences) it is also harmful for the banned user. All in all, I reached this conclusion that we'd better come along ;)
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 14:35
  • 4
    Great for you. Still not an answer to my question.
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 14:50
  • @Bart Hello again me! I should add that I am not sure that the current policy is the way I explained. In my opinion deletion of account or creating a new account is meaningless!
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 14:54
  • 9
    This answer is not related to the question in any way. It is a subtle rant. Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 19:15
  • @InfiniteRecursion I don't know what you like to hear, then please answer it by yourself, I just analyzed the issue for you. its your job to discern the answer.
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 13:16
  • 1
    I was studying earlier answer prior to submitting my own and was surprised to discover that it essentially answers your question @Bart - the key point is right there: "one question per week". Ahmad, consider editing your answer to expand on what was asked for in comments above, "this is exactly why the policy was changed" - you can find this eg in an answer from SE community manager at MSE: What is the reasoning behind limiting “recidivists” to post one question per week?
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 14:05
  • ... "a week was chosen partly based on data... and a little penalty tacked on to make sure we get their attention... What does this get us? People that treat questions as a resource that can be depleted, who learn how to ask questions only when they really need to and make them count when they do. Or, they keep throwing themselves at the wall and then get stuck in the mean hairy algorithm..."
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 14:31
  • 1
    @gnat Thank you for your help, I modified my answer.
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 15:41
  • 1
    But then the message should still be different @gnat. And that still begs the question (or correct me if I'm wrong), why do we seem to favour those who delete their account and create it again over those who stick with their account and their outright ban?
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 16:07
  • @Bart per my reading, current message matches the idea laid out in the SE CM post I referred above. If you feel that it doesn't, consider editing your question to help me see that too. In particular, one reason to "favour those who delete their account" that comes to mind is that this deletes all their negative score questions along with answers given by rep whores and with whatever rep they gained in there. Not to mention that users who agree to limit self to one question per week (instead of crap-bombing us) don't feel like problematic to me
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 16:09
  • 2
    Trust me, I know how editing works @gnat ;) But yeah, that starts to make some sense. I'll give it some thought. Thanks for the input so far.
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 16:16
  • @Bart I know, you may have asked why we encourage a banned user to create a new account. But personally it wasn't important to me that we encourage them, be frank with them, warn them, hide this possibility or etc. it's something that they can do. The best we can do is reconsidering the whole process in a way that both benefit the system and the banned user, it was what I tried to say in my answer.
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 16:25
  • 1
    @Bart about why we favour those who delete their account... I had a similar question meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/284017/…, you may want to answer it or review its current answer.
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 17:46
  • 1
    I agree that users are unlikely to vote on an old question, even ones that haven't voted on it already, since your question is less likely to appear to them when they look. Basically, having down votes makes it less likely your question will appear to others as time goes on. That is what it seems like to me anyway.
    – cluemein
    Commented Jan 4, 2016 at 14:54
8

Prior answer provides a thorough analysis, reference to official explanation of what made this message appear and fairly sensible overview of how current approach looks from different perspectives and how it is expected to work in the long term.

It probably should be an accepted answer because of what stated above, but I would want to add a (cynical if you wish) coverage of short term gain brought to community by an approach that seems to worry you.


To start with, it's not that Stack Overflow simply offers user an easy way out and asks for nothing in return. Users who follow this "friendly" suggestion agree to be limited to asking one question per week. And please don't tell me that they don't have a choice, because they really do.

There are other, more destructive ways to hack the system and continue asking crap at the same rate, and there are posts here at MSO about those who do so. Granted, it doesn't help them - one recent question here (probably deleted) was from a user who switched to new account 5 or 6 times and every one was quickly getting banned... but it doesn't help us either.

When user picks a moderate, heavily throttled way to restart, it is already better for us than them going the other way and continue dropping garbage at prior rate. Not to mention that having a week to prepare one question tends to increase chances for this question to be okay.


Another thing not mentioned in this friendly "hack us please, try account deletion" message but which is important for us to consider it that user deletion also takes away their prior negative score questions, along with fastest gun answers and whatever reputation answerers got from these.

This may be not an ultimate solution to end old rotten romance but a fairly solid step towards it. As explained in How frequently do new users self-delete their own accounts?

In the past 365 days, 18,984 users have deleted themselves.

Along with these user deletions, 1,484 questions have been deleted. Of these, 612 had at least 1 answer, 265 of which were upvoted or accepted.

When I read stats like above, I can only wish there would be more of it.

I wish it happen more often that careless answerers ask, Why was this question deleted so quickly? and realize that instead of dropping an answer and running away they better take care of improving (or closing) the question.

Account deletion helps us here even when user believes it's only to help them get out of ban.

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  • Thank you much for pointing to my answer and your description of it. I accept modification is always needed and some comments to my answer are right but sometimes I straightly go to the main point and leave the conclusion to the reader which may makes my answers harder to be realized!
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 18:54
  • 6
    @Ahmad FWIW to "leave the conclusion to the reader" is not a particularly good habit. It may sometimes fly here at meta, because it's not quite a normal Q&A site, but on main site, you better make sure that any reader gets to your point as easy as possible. That way, if your point is good, will offer better chance to get more upvotes and gain more reputation
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 19:07
  • Just I hope, whatever they do, they vote to the content and the asker and answerer doesn't play a role here.
    – Ahmad
    Commented Jan 25, 2015 at 6:41
  • Not sure I understood what you meant with this answer. Are you saying its good that users are able to start over in new accounts? Also, it seems like it would be simple to make the system think you are a new user and not an old user registering under a new account.
    – cluemein
    Commented Jan 4, 2016 at 20:17
  • @gnat ah I see. I have been registered a long time with a pretty high rep (considering I have a question ban especially). Do all new users have a limit on the number of questions they ask or only old users registering new accounts, because I don't remember if there was a limit?
    – cluemein
    Commented Jan 4, 2016 at 20:26
  • @cluemein only old users registering new accounts. This is particularly helpful when one has eventually got the idea how to ask properly but ban hit them earlier than they could exercise their new knowledge. One question a week limit is likely lifted quite quickly after user proves that their questions are positively received
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 4, 2016 at 20:30
  • @gnat just seems like it would be easy to disguise the fact that your an old user. Won't say how to avoid encouraging it, but just seems like it could be easily tricked.
    – cluemein
    Commented Jan 4, 2016 at 20:36
  • @cluemein this is not for those willing to disguise, they have their own ways and system has its own ways to handle them. This is the way out for those who are honest and want a honest way out, see here
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 4, 2016 at 21:00
-18

But look at it this way: (and yes tor does circumvent), we shouldn't be allowing that, however:

Or auto bans...my last IP was caught up in the mix and I'm posting both proper questions here and this I find is not right. Is there a way to allow IPs so blacklisted? Because I switched ISP's and it's like I was suddenly banned.. Like the last comcast user with that IP was a complete insert organ here in this place. I'm not like that, however, I won't tolerate abuse of power online neither, and I'm getting a lot of that lately with multiple projects.

So as I said, I was caught in the net by my ISP, forced to use tor to get posts published, and if I don't want an account, that's my business... But I wasn't banned here so I set one up.

I'm sure I'm not the only one stuck in that net, so how do we get out of it? We really could use a solution..like a timer or something...because whatever we have surely isn't working.

Wes, we should limit new (similar)accounts but at the same time...we are banning by IP like Microsoft modded Xboxes here..and you can't improve what gets deleted by "someone in power" as it were. There you are with a bad rep, and nothing you can do to fix it... So what other option do we have but to make another account? Yes, there is always abuse... Cull inactive users after six months..

Because in my book, there is NO STUPID question. The stupid one is the one never asked. Shoot me to irc relay, whatever... But I'm gonna ask..and so should you. this "I don't want to hear it" response needs to disappear. That's abuse of power.

Maybe things need to be modded better (category moved...etc etc) but that's no reason to shove a foot thru someone.


..If I find bad c, I'm going to point it out to you. if you refuse to fix it..not my problem. It can however, upset many of us that there may be no solution to the problem revealed, or that nobody wants to fix it. And I'm sorry, but, but I don't write C. I write Pascal variants. As a result, my code is stronger. not everybody has experience in code, might want to remember that. They want things(me too) to "just work".

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    Please read over this answer again and re-write it. As it is right now, it's an incoherent rant of which I'm not sure it's even an answer.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 7:53
  • 2
    As much as I'd love to respond to this, I can't make head nor tail of this post. I gather you have been IP-banned from the site somehow? If so, and if your account was otherwise in good standing, you can always contact Stack Overflow and raise the issue.
    – Bart
    Commented Jul 26, 2016 at 8:00
  • I think sparing this post from the deletion helps a lot to understand, why the reviewing mechanism is often overly vehement.
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 20, 2021 at 15:01
  • 2
    can't understand how it is related Commented Jan 22, 2021 at 10:08

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