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tl;dr

How can I as a user deal with content of users who are helpful in general but leave abusive comments and/or answers?

Is there anything I can do to help mitigate the problem when I run into such an answer?


An anecdote

So, today in chat I ran into an answer that starts with:

Though this contradicts to the description of the algorithms in the C++ Standard there is no any reason why it can't be done except the low qualification of the members of the C++ Standard.

The user was asking why they were getting downvotes so I edited the slurs part out while keeping the entire answer intact. The user promptly reverted the answers to which I responded with "Very well, revert those edits, just don't be surprised at all the downvotes" to which I got the reply:

@Benjamin Gruenbaum This can not suprise me. I know very well who is in the C++ Standard Commitee and how many there are weak programmers that do not have their own brain.

I replied with:

@UserWhoAnswered I don't know you and I don't care about your opinions about C++ standard committee members. MY concern here is that SO is kept clean from snarkiness and rudeness. Please keep these opinions to a blog or to yourself and don't disrespect people in answers or otherwise on this site.

And a few seconds later a low profile answer of mine got a random downvote. In chat I since learned that other users who left comments were downvoted right around the same time (sehe, Telkitty). I also noticed that Lightness Races in Orbit got a downvote.

They all got downvotes on low traffic questions or answers promptly after they commented.

I was told this was not the first time.


All that said - the above user has attempted to make a significant contribution to the site with over 2000 answers and over 50000 reputation points. I don't want to see him suspended for a year or to stop contributing and if possible I'd like to know what I can do to solve these problems without involving meta.

Is there anything I can do as a user to keep said users contributing without demotivating them but to let them know that we will not tolerate slurs at a specific group of individuals in Stack Overflow?

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  • 24
    Flag for moderator attention and move on. Use the "other" option to explain it. In serious cases contact the team. Of course you know that, but I also mean it's the only thing you should want to do.
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 12:44
  • 46
    This user has a long history of retaliatory downvotes to actual or perceived downvotes. Even commenting on one of his answers is enough to get a random downvote.
    – Mgetz
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 12:45
  • 5
    Editing I would do, but other contact I would avoid. Big chance it will result in nothing positive and you'll end up frustrated. Let those who can deal with it deal with it.
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 12:49
  • 17
    What, this isn't about me???
    – user1228
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 13:53
  • 41
    "... helpful in general" .. nope @Will
    – Bart
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 14:00
  • 14
    @Bart ... ಠ_ಠ ...
    – user1228
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 14:02
  • 29
    @BenjaminGruenbaum You didn't respond to his comments in the friendliest of terms either. "just don't be surprised at all the downvotes" and "I don't know you and I don't care about your opinions" sound rather provocative to me.
    – simonzack
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 16:53
  • 10
    @simonzack I wasn't nice but I don't think was rude either - if you honestly think being less direct or nicer would have helped here please write an answer about that. Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 18:49
  • 17
    @simonzack I disagree. Stating that an answer will attract downvotes does not seem rude to me. Neither does stating that one does not care. Those are facts. This may not be the friendliest way to say it, but being the friendliest is no requirement I think Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 20:08
  • 29
    50k rep or not, i'd ban such a user until he could learn to value others as much as he values himself. nothing ruins an SO experience more than being 'gamed' by abusive users.
    – wilson0x4d
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 0:07
  • 5
    I avoid an area despite having used the product since release 1 because of an insular clique of product-insiders with vast but incomplete knowledge. Their reputations are made by mutually upvoting each other's every utterance. They will downvote as "code only" a solution containing comments-in-code or post a "white paper" in response to a poster with scant knowledge of English. Can't prove a thing. My rebuke evaporated silently indicating moderator action. Now what? Just allow them their bully-tactics?
    – Magoo
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 2:12
  • 10
    "I have since talked to other users who left comments and (sehe, Lightness Races in Orbit, Telkitty) and they all got downvotes on low traffic questions or answers promptly after they commented." Um, what? No I didn't, and I never said I did. In fact, we have never had a conversation about it, you and I. Mostly because I have you ignored in chat... Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 9:59
  • 8
    In that case you better check the transcript - it's quite probable I pinged you sehe and Telkitty - sehe or Telkitty replied and you responded to one of them in the discussion - I really don't feel like digging through the transcript just to find it now, nor do I feel like talking about your constant drama, abusive behavior or rage quits in the C++ room - just check the transcript from yesterday and see for yourself. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 10:12
  • 14
    @BenjaminGruenbaum: I don't need to "check the transcript from yesterday". I can guarantee you I never claimed Vlad has been downvoting me. Or that anyone has been downvoting me. Please do not misrepresent me in order to attack a fellow SO user. Thanks! Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 10:14
  • 8
    So basically someone claimed members of the C++ Standards Commitee had low qualifications. You decided it was worth an edit an edited it out, the user that posted it disagreed with you and edited it back. You were snarky, the user was snarky back, and then you asked the user not to be snarky. You think the user downvoted you, and possibly others, that don't seem to agree with you on who was downvoted. Now you're asking how you can deal with abusive users? Is this Stack Kindergarten ?
    – adeneo
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 20:55

12 Answers 12

58

Edit the answer to something reasonable and neutral. Not for the benefit of the author, but for those who will read it afterwards. After that, move on.

You don't have the means to do anything else than to end up in a back and forth debate in the comments. Sure, there's a small chance the author might get the message and will adapt their behaviour, but it's really quite small.

If the behaviour is very persistent, particularly terrible or both, then flag for moderator attention. They have the means to take action, contact the user or do whatever is required. And what's more, they have a full history on the user, if there is one.

For you as a regular user, spend your times on more useful things.

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  • 13
    I think I mostly agree with this answer, and a recent 4 downvote flurry indicates that the said user has found this thread. I'll probably stick to one edit and flagging in the future. Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 16:03
  • While this is not the highest voted answer the highest voted one does not offer any advice on how I as a regular user can deal with it which was my question. I like both this one and Shog's and this one seems like it has more votes so I'm accepting it. Commented Jan 7, 2015 at 7:21
142

Harassment must be punished. No salt included

If some user behaves in inappropriate way - my opinion - there's no relation to his contribution or reputation points. Violation of rules is violation of rules, no matter who will do that. That is - if user deserves to be suspended - he should be. I don't see any reason to invent special regulation for "high-reputation users". That is short, and that is all.

Dura lex sed lex

([the] law [is] harsh, but [it is the] law)

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  • 18
    Well then, can we have special regulation for Latin users? :) Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 13:09
  • 43
    Absolutely correct, yes. It feels harder when it's a highly valuable user otherwise, but we must apply the rules of behavior equally to all.
    – Andrew Barber Mod
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 13:15
  • 6
    @MartinJames: Only for Latin-1 then.
    – Jongware
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 14:40
  • Should 'desires' be 'deserves'? It is a valid sentence either way, but I think 'deserves' is probably le mot juste. Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 16:07
  • @JonathanLeffler it should :) many thanks
    – Alma Do
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 16:08
  • 1
    How is this harassment?
    – tmyklebu
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 16:09
  • 4
    "No salt included" can you explain what this means? If we're referencing "salty" in Internet slang, using it in this case is very out of context.
    – Compass
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 16:24
  • @Compass - I assume this means that the punishment will not be excessive. a la "rubbing salt in wound" ... methinks Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 17:10
  • 2
    @Compass I believe the "No Salt Included" is a reference to cryptography. Saying that punishment should be dealt the same for all, not in secret or a special case. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_%28cryptography%29
    – teynon
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 19:43
  • 3
    Salt in this case has nothing whatsoever to do with cryptography or wounds. OP is stating that salt makes things taste good. There is no reason to make this taste good for a high rep user.
    – crthompson
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 20:30
  • 4
    "If the president does it, that means it's not illegal!"
    – corsiKa
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 0:07
  • 5
    FWIW, I interpreted the "no salt included" as an opposite of "take it with a grain of salt." Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 7:42
  • 2
    Are you going to explain which of the various salt theories was intended? If any? Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 12:25
  • 1
    And you people thought I was crazy for not knowing what this idiom was O_O
    – Compass
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 15:02
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    @TylerH I believe Coffee meant that what they would see fit for a 1 year suspension, someone else might see as fit for only a 2 week suspension, thus meaning that the second user would feel the suspension was excessive if Coffee was the one to get to decide and decided upon a 1 year suspension.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 17:03
34

Have no concerns. When in doubt, flag it out.

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23

I spent a decent amount of time looking at this as a result of your post. At first I went looking for the answer you reference and the surrounding situation. My initial reaction was that there was a sort of dogpile reaction to this user since it was discussed in a very active chat room.

Further inspection reveals that is not the case in this scenario. I agree that posting to meta at this point in the endeavor was probably the best course of action because it is certainly an interesting position to find yourself in.

Even though this user has thousands of answers and reputation, the user seems to react very negatively towards others (even beyond the reference to insulting the C++ Standard Committee). This user has insulted multiple other high reputation users in the past and seems to continue to do so.

While it is in no way desirable to drive away users who contribute to the site, it is also undesirable to have users who actively drive others away. With such a platform, it is possible that user could negatively affect other high reputation users who frequent the same posts.

I think that flagging his content was the proper course of action, but I would also heavily consider a suspension for this user. Although they may contribute to the site significantly, the odds of them causing other highly contributing users to feel disenfranchised is also present.

The flag for offensive or abusive did seem to go through, I believe that a separate note for a moderator is also applicable in this type of scenario so that they are aware of the broader situation as opposed to just this one incident. Sometimes these actions require a little more investigation and it can be good to clue a moderator in to that.

18

The "contributing" part here isn't very important. Deal with him as with any other abusive user. Stack Exchange's goal is to distribute knowledge to those who need it. This requires more than finding the knowledge; this requires building a functional process for distributing it. If a person cannot interact with others without disturbing the whole communication process by injecting rants into the information, or being rude to other users, or committing random malicious acts, then he is a burden for the community, no matter how much knowledge he has.

Beside that, on a purely personal level, you are completely correct to protect yourself and others from abuse, no matter what the social status of the abuser. Sure, in a geek community, lots of knowledge imparts its owner a high social status. This does not give him the right to get away with rudeness and verbal abuse.

We'd all love seeing a person prone to outbursts change and become the nicer person he could be. But re-educating people is hard even if they want it to and you know what you are doing, and impossible else. So your goal here shouldn't be to placate the user but at the same time try to reduce the impact of his abrasiveness. The goal is to 1) get him to stop it, even if it means less participation overall on his side, and 2) to avoid or undo the negative consequences of his inappropriate behavior.

The best way you can do it:

  1. Point out that his behavior is damaging to you and others, e.g. because it is offending.

  2. Change his posts to neutral. If this is a reasonable person who lost his nerves once, this is likely to be the end of the problem.

  3. He might become more aggressive at this, as in the case you described. Acknowledge his anger/frustration/whatever, point out that despite it, his behavior is still inacceptable. Do not attack him (but be prepared that he will likely interpret your resistance as an attack). Then stop participating and wait for him to cool down. He will probably continue "foaming at the mouth" metaphorically.

  4. If, beside ranting at the situation, he displays limited destructive behavior (such as giving your post which is part of the discussed content a downvote), it's probably still better to wait it out and not engage again, swallowing the damage of this one downvote.

  5. If the "fire" is growing instead of calming down, escalate. The revenge voting on unrelated posts is one situation where this is happening. Others would be him being in the middle of a heated fight in comments with other users, or being in an edit war with somebody, or defacing content in some way. The way to escalate is to cast a flag. You can cast a normal flag, or choose a custom reason and point out the abusive behavior in the description.

  6. After you have escalated, the moderators will use whatever tools are needed to prevent further damage (e.g. locking posts), and give the user a warning in a more or less official way, depending on how bad it is. Sadly, many people with problematic social behavior will disregard you, the user, and the authority of the moderator title is needed to stop them. Even sadder is when they think that they are above all rules, and do not care for being warned officially - in some cases this results in a timed suspension. This is a tool of last resort and only employed after a user has proven to be repeatedly disruptive, after multiple warnings.

So, from what you described in this particular case, you did it right. I wish I could tell you that there is a better solution. But the fact is, we cannot change people. The ones who have normal social skills but, once or twice, get carried along some strong emotion, will probably be back to normal after the episode is over. Just give them a bit of time to react off their tantrum, and clean up later when he's no longer touchy. The ones who are abusive by nature won't stop being it just because somebody wants them to.

16

You're raising a couple different concerns here. Bart's answer outlines the correct way to address one of them:

You don't have the means to do anything else than to end up in a back and forth debate in the comments. Sure, there's a small chance the author might get the message and will adapt their behaviour, but it's really quite small.

If you notice someone walking around with a chip on their shoulder and don't want to get into a bitter, pointless argument with them... Then don't engage them. It's that simple. That doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye toward abuse, merely that you shouldn't be pouring fuel on an obvious fire. Flag anything overtly abusive for moderator attention and move on - moderators have a record of such posts and flags, and anyone with a sufficiently ugly history is going to find themselves having a conversation in a much more constrained context than what you have available to you in post comments.

In particular, if your concern is that of losing a peer you consider valuable to the community, then egging them on to ever-greater extremes of abuse is probably not going to do what you wish it to.

Your other concern here is revenge voting. If you followed Bart's advice this is easy: there's a FAQ for that! If you didn't, then things start getting more complicated. Unfortunately, playing out a heated argument in public generally means attracting an audience - and they can all vote too. The chances of any system - automated or manual - being able to sort that out become increasingly slim the longer the battle continues. If you belatedly observe this happening, then do what you should've done at the start: flag for moderator attention and walk away.

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  • Yup, agreed. There is really very little to do from my side except flag. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 18:29
  • 3
    The implication here is that if you do like getting into bitter, pointless arguments and/or wish to drive away another user, then you should by all means engage them when they're looking tetchy - note, however, that this can occasionally backfire.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 18:30
  • 2
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think I've learned my lesson. A mod flag and an edit at most are to do it. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 21:39
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To answer the general question: you have to weigh up the benefits the user brings against the harms they cause.

If you think that the benefits outweigh the harms then do nothing, otherwise do what you can. For regular users that would be flagging the post/comment with the "other" option to explain the situation. For moderators that would be contacting the user or issuing suspensions where appropriate.

Ultimately the community is bigger than any individual and if the actions of one person (or a group of people) are driving other users away then they must be dealt with.

I have answered this on Community Building here and The Workplace here

Now, if the user has a previously unblemished record you might want to do some more investigation as to why their behaviour had changed, and you might start with a warning, but ultimately if they continue with the abusive behaviour you have to suspend them.

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    It seems to me some people have the impression that when a user has a high reputation on a site, the mods pick up a different rulebook to deal with the high rep user. However, when I read "weigh up the benefits [...] against the harms" in your answer, I read it to mean that in the application of the same set of rules for everyone, a user with no positive contributions to the site (and likely a low rep) won't have any evidence in their case other than the abuse, whereas a high rep user will have among the evidence all their positive contributions to the site besides the harm.
    – Louis
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 13:36
  • 15
    @Louis - Indeed the same rules apply to everyone. However, there is a difference between a new user who starts out being abusive and an established user who has an otherwise unblemished record.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 13:38
  • 2
    @ChrisF I think you are contradicting yourself: if the same rules apply then there can be no difference or if there is a difference then probably not the same rules apply... And for the directly affected users there is no difference. I don't feel less abused because someone insulting me has also a high rep number. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 13:13
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    @Trilarion - I'm not contradicting myself. If you turned up at a bar you'd never been to before and started shouting at people you'd be kicked out and not let back in. If you did the same at your regular bar you'd probably be treated with more tolerance - at least the first time you did it. Your history saves you from an immediate ban, but if you carried on being abusive you'd soon find yourself out on your ear.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 13:45
  • 2
    @ChrisF But this only works to some extent. If you go to a court the penalty is always the same for the same crime independent of who you are (in theory, not in practice though). All in all I don't think that here on SO abusive behavior should be tolerated a lot more from high rep users than from low rep users. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 13:55
  • 4
    @Trilarion - true, but I think the situation on SO (and SE) is more like a bar than a court of law.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 13:59
  • 2
    @Trilarion - Also, in our experience, users who have contributed a lot of quality content tend to be a lot more likely to change their behavior if gently nudged. We approach them differently because we have had success with this. Our interactions with new users who only insult others have not been as positive.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 15:37
  • 2
    @BradLarson I agree that this is so on average. But still favoring high rep users you will always be under suspicion of applying double standards. And you cannot exclude there are actually new users who would react very positive if gently nudged. For me the most important thing is that in case anyone should insult me here I will completely ignore the rep of the insulter and will briefly return a bit of his own medicine and then flag it and let the moderation handle it. The rep of the insulter will have no influence on that procedure. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 16:54
  • 1
    @Trilarion - please don't "briefly return a bit of his own medicine", Don't respond, just flag.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Jan 7, 2015 at 15:24
  • @Trilarion: I, for one, am overwhelmingly in favour of mods applying a standard to users who have demonstrated that they have a clue that is different from that which they apply to other users.
    – tmyklebu
    Commented Jan 7, 2015 at 16:25
  • People with a high reputation often get that high reputation because they are passionate about what they do. There is no passion without temper. The people on SO have a heartbeat, they aren't robots. They try to be friendly, but they don't always succeed, especially when confronted with questions such as "I have tried X and it doesn't work!" without providing a SSCCE, “I have searched the whole internet and I didn’t find a solution!” (and SO doesn't allow lmgtfy links), and "I can not upgrade to the latest version" when they are using a version that has been declared EOL 5 years ago. Commented Jan 7, 2015 at 17:24
  • Reputation does not always tell all, but it can tell a lot. Just about any group is willing to put up with a lot more trouble from a member whom they see as essential than one they judge dispensable.
    – dfeuer
    Commented Jan 7, 2015 at 21:39
5

What's wrong with just editing the inappropriate bits out once? You can flag if they're added back. You also don't have to expend any emotional energy dealing with the perceived problem beyond making the edits in the first place.

Also, if it's any consolation, it appears the user's received three revenge downvotes for his trouble.

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    That's no consolation at all - my whole motivation here is to not drive the user away but rather address the problematic behavior. I was wrong to even have his username in the post to begin with I did not consider it would lead to blind revenge downvotes. Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 19:40
  • @BenjaminGruenbaum: I think you can address the consequences of the problematic behaviour as I've described, and basically as you tried to do. I don't see why it's necessary (or desirable) to address the behaviour itself.
    – tmyklebu
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 6:31
-9

I have done what other answers recommend and in my opinion, it is not worth your time flagging and bringing the matter to the attention of moderators. This may just be ignored:

I wouldn't worry about two votes, and that's too small a number for us to bring in an SE employee over.

I don't care about the two votes either. But if the retaliatory downvoting comes from an serial retaliatory downvoter, of course it's going to be two votes. The retaliatory downvoter is not stupid. The retaliatory downvoter knows that two downvotes per user sends the message just fine and avoids both algorithm detection and administator intervention.

Don't bother with the flag, it's not worth the time it takes to type. Just move on.

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  • What do SE employees have to do with anything? Mods have the power to talk to users about what they're doing, and to suspend them. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 0:58
  • 12
    @MatthewRead: Vlad's abusive behavior has affected many (most?) of the major contributors to c++, but the mods have done nothing. I won't hazard a guess as to exactly why, but I have to agree with Pascal: it's been going on regularly enough for long enough that it seems fairly clear that appropriate action is not going to be taken. Even when he goes beyond revenge downvoting into obvious plagiarism, flags pointing out the problem are simply declined. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 2:29
  • 3
    I'm probably one of the few users in C++ who have yet to have an altercation with Vlad. (We're in completely different sub-areas of that tag and we never show up on the same questions.). But as regular of the C++ Lounge, I hear about him so often that he has basically become part of the lounge culture as a household name - of course, not in a good way.
    – Mysticial
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 10:07
  • 7
    Pascal, I marked your flag as helpful because I understood how suspicious that looked. However, there wasn't any evidence on our end of targeted voting in the traditional sense, and moderators can't see who cast individual votes. I'd have to bring in an SE employee, have them dig into the database, and have them decide to manually invalidate those votes in order to do something here. With all the higher-priority things they have to deal with, that would not make their list, thus my response. The flag isn't worthless, I just wanted to express why these weren't going to be invalidated.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 14:55
  • 6
    @JerryCoffin - Just because you don't see a user immediately being suspended doesn't mean we aren't doing something. Not all means of communication have public consequences (we try to exhaust other means of behavior change first ), and comments that are removed or edited are not seen by the community. Trust me, moderators are well aware of this situation and have been discussing it for a while.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 14:58
  • 3
    @BradLarson: How does "discussing it for a while" qualify as "appropriate action"? Your sentence starts with "trust me", but ends with (in effect) "you can't trust me." Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 17:35
  • 1
    @JerryCoffin Careful what you ask for...
    – Seth
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 17:41
  • 8
    What do you want him to say, @Jerry? "We've left comments, deleted comments, sent mod-messages, asked the admins to research revenge voting only to find everyone involved was innocent/guilty to the same degree and are currently hoping we can find a way to calm everyone down before it ends badly for one and all?" Not that that's the case, necessarily, but... even if it was, wouldn't that just add fuel to the fire here?
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 17:44
  • 4
    @Shog9: Not to be nasty, but to be honest I'm rapidly losing interest in what anybody involved has to say. He's made participation on SO enough less enjoyable for me that while I'm not the sort to "ragequit", there's also a limit to the amount of abuse to which I'm willing to voluntarily expose myself (and in this case it appears that posting anything on any question Vlad might happen to look at exposes you to abuse). Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 17:54
  • 2
    @Shog9: In the end, however, there's a reason that in real life, criminal trials are carried out in public, and those who choose to do so can observe and report the proceedings. That's necessary to instill confidence that the system really is doing its job. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 18:14
  • 4
    The fact that we're equating someone's distaste with a standards committee to criminal activity here is probably a good indicator of why such proceedings would be more of a lynch-mob than an event likely to instill confidence in anything.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 18:19
  • 3
    @Shog9 My complaint is about retaliatory downvoting, which, I think, is detrimental to the spirit of SO in the same way that the worthless phony Internet points are good for SO when the system works. My problem with any hypothetical serial retaliatory downvoter is not one particular couple of retaliatory downvotes but the fact that a series of them take place without apparent resolution, discouraging users that I respect to express an opinion that I would have liked to hear about one technical point or another. One paper cut is not worth the ado, but we're not talking about one paper cut here. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 18:32
  • Retaliatory voting is well-covered in the site FAQ, Pascal: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252270/…
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 19:02
  • @PascalCuoq: Do you actually care about the retaliatory downvotes? If so, why?
    – tmyklebu
    Commented Jan 7, 2015 at 16:01
  • 2
    @Shog9: That meta question covers a single flood of retaliatory downvotes directed at a single user. It seems like the complaint that's coming through here is that this user is doing retaliatory downvoting, but not in a way that the current system detects. If this is indeed considered an abuse, and I don't see why it wouldn't be, it's an abuse that affects no single user heavily but, in aggregate, could be just as bad as the serial downvoting that is "taken care of automatically."
    – tmyklebu
    Commented Jan 7, 2015 at 16:04
-13

The true story behind this user is that his, let's say "controversial", answers have been mocked and mass downvoted by a good number of people from the chat you have initially found this nth answer on, for almost a year now.

I'm actually surprised he was able to manage to get to 50k of reputation and not give up yet. I would consider his "revenge downvote" actually fair considering the background.

So, there's no need for you to play the victim role. If you really meant this:

I don't want to see him suspended for a year or to stop contributing and if possible I'd like to know what I can do to solve these problems without involving meta.

Then whenever you see something wrong with one of his answers simply downvote and move on. The reason downvotes are anonymous is exactly to prevent his behavior. His message is clear: he doesn't want "criticism" from that room (and IMHO for a good reason). Let him be.

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    To clarify - I never once downvoted a single answer of Vlad before, I knew he had chat history in the Lounge chat room but I wasn't picking on him - do note that initially all I did was edit the post and not downvote. I'm also not playing the victim here - if anything this question is not about not driving him away but rather fixing the problematic behavior bits. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 10:25
  • 2
    @BenjaminGruenbaum How can you say that and keep a straight face? You are even yourself ganging up on him here.
    – Shoe
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 11:55
  • Good luck with that. The reason we mock and mass downvote him now is because he was highly abusive to us when we engaged with him reasonably when he first arrived.
    – Puppy
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 11:58
  • 3
    Yeah, loungers are notoriously reasonable when it comes with approaching "new" people. Especially you.
    – Shoe
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 11:59
  • @Jefffrey I can say that and keep a straight face because I absolutely mean it. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 14:02
  • 11
    Revenge downvotes are, by definition, not justified. Some of his answers have certainly been downvoted, but at least to me the downvotes appear justified based on the (IMO, poor) quality of their content. He's also received comments intended to improve the quality of answers, but instead of fixing even obvious problems the person posting the comment almost immediately received a couple of downvotes on unrelated answers. It appears that the only degree of "let him be" that can really work is to quit posting to c++ at all. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 18:07
-23

Stack Overflow is not a technical manual written by machines. It's a product of human interaction (albeit asynchronous and remote). Humans are flawed and emotional by nature, and trying to suppress human nature is folly.

I'm OK with the comments your OP made. I don't care about them at all, and if I read them anywhere I would probably laugh a little. This isn't hate speech -- the OP isn't espousing the murdering of millions of people based on race or religion -- he's giving his human, flawed, emotional opinion. With that many reputation points and experience I believe that there really is a chance that he knows these people and his opinion may be valid -- I think that you're assuming he's being nasty, while it is entirely possible that he's actually being generous.

We are all (mostly) grownups and a little emotion and self expression won't hurt us. Hate speech might, but this isn't that.

6
  • 11
    SO is not a chatroom. It should be closer to a technical manual than to the transcript of conversation that takes place in the school playground. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 10:02
  • 17
    "Hate speech might, but this isn't that." Do you mean that, as long as it's not hate speech, pointlessly insulting anyone is ok? Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 10:06
  • Do you really care that much if some anonymous soul insults you? Is you skin that thin? I doubt it. I assume you're a fully functional adult operating in a normal society, and I image that you run into negativity constantly throughout your day. I do not really think that insulting people is ok, I just don't really care about it enough to complain and change something on SO -- it's just not that important. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 14:48
  • 9
    They can be insulting elsewhere. Reddit? 4chan? There are many places on the internet where one is free to be a jerk. I don't think it's that much to expect that people remain professional and objective on a tech Q&A site.
    – Mikey T.K.
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 16:37
  • I think that it's a huge thing to expect -- especially as their are a large number of non-professional users on SO. Besides, people keep using the word professional to mean 'any behaviour I don't like', when actually it means, 'for money.' Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 16:57
  • 1
    I guess that some great programmers just lack the occasional social skill. Either they just don't have the skill or don't want to invest the time or just forget how to be polite. My impression that sometimes even knowledged users could use a bit more often the subjunctive. Even if you are convinced of yourself you can still make errors. It can come across as arrogant and harrasing (not hate speech, but definitely a form of harassment). Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 20:52
-24

Duplicate of this question ... from the second person's aspect. If you are an 'insider' or do a bit of research, you will realise that the cause of this thread was related to vlad from moscow, one of the person whom I have mentioned in that question. If you dig a bit further, you will see that the other person whom I mentioned: Your Common Sense is currently banned from Stackoverflow for apparently not really doing anything wrong.

This whole drama looks a bit like a fox tries to eat a chicken, then blames the chicken for fighting back.

7
  • 9
    I've seen a few comments by Your Common Sense and they are not nice especially if you have a genuine question you need help with
    – AdRock
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 12:27
  • 3
    I have seen comments from Your Common Sense & Vlad, they rarely have been aggressive unless provoked by the 'usual' crowd
    – TelKitty
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 12:29
  • 2
    @AdRock He seems to make up for that by being practical and correct.
    – bjb568
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 12:29
  • 2
    But sometimes people leave a negative comments instead of providing an answer even if they have an answer. It would be better not not add anything at all
    – AdRock
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 12:30
  • 16
    "Your Common Sense is currently banned from Stackoverflow for apparently not really doing anything wrong." ... -1 Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 12:31
  • 1
    "This whole drama looks a bit like a fox tries to eat a chicken, then blames the chicken for fighting back." ... +1
    – Shoe
    Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 12:32
  • 8
    How was editing the question by removing the offensive part in any way provocative? I have not even interacted with Vlad directly ever before as far as I can remember - all I did was edit the abusive content out. Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 14:04

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