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I came across noticing that @lpapp was banned now for a whole year, and I'm pretty concerned about this. I couldn't see any rude comments or abusive usage of the trusted user tools when skimming through the OP's history.
Actually I met them along closing a lot of crappy questions, as they deserved recently.

Also (if that's the real essence) the mod message as stated here doesn't make sense for me:

After enough warnings, more than one user expressed that they would rather leave the site than working with him due to his abusive behavior.

The user was constantly giving good contribution in their field (), and I can't see any obvious reason why they should be banned from SO for a whole year.
What should be the abusive behavior in particular? I don't get it from the history.

That ban looks just pretty harsh for me. I was myself banned once for a week, and well tried to tone down my comments and being more responsibly using my tools at hand afterwards. But a whole year?!? Really? I don't see that massive hurt from Lazslo's site to justify that long term ban.

What can we mere mortals do, to convince moderators that this ban was inappropriate?

I know that such penalty box bans will be disputed by more than a single moderator, before being spelled out, and I believe they're doing this responsibly. Though I still don't get it for this particular case. I would appreciate if some of the involved moderators might give a more concise explanation for that case.
I'm close to be a trusted user, and want to know what to avoid in particular being banned such way.

I've already had some conflicts with this user, but these were easily solved with some peer to peer communication, and I don't bother about them anymore

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    A one-year ban isn't given as a first notice. If mods went to one year, it means a pattern of abuse, and (I believe) more that a couple of previous bans. You don't see traces of abusive behavior after it's been cleaned up.
    – Mat
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:02
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    I tried to be as abusive as possible last year, but didn't get any warnings or a ban. I think I'm being discriminated against:) Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:04
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    given that suspended user was very active in closing and deletions, best we can do is to stronger push SE team to work on se-quality-project. I bet his frustration has a lot to do with waterfalls of garbage flooding the site. And I bet another suspended hi-rep user has been frustrated by this. Another hi-rep user left another SE site voluntarily but they wrote an explanation here that looks really appropriate. "At some point, maintaining and curating a site became work and not fun..."
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:46
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    1 year worth of ban is usually given to repeat (read 3+ times) offenders. Most users have the brains and humility to not reach the third time. Also, no one is suspended for a year on the first time. Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 22:12
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    This ban was completely appropriate from the interactions I've seen/had with the user. Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong.
    – Alex K
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 23:13
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    @AlexK Any appropriate samples? Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 23:15
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    @πάνταῥεῖ I'd prefer not to link them here, but I will summarize - he posted a very low quality answer, which I happened to review. Me and 5 other people unanimously voted to delete. He fixed up his post, but then went to one of my questions, downvoted it, and began a comment war on how I deleted a great post. The post is great now - it obviously wasn't before. He wouldn't leave. I finally decided to stop replying. Very strange way to behave - to come after people who reviewed your post.
    – Alex K
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 23:55
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    @πάνταῥεῖ: I won't go into details but I too have seen glimpses of why the user was problematic. But there is no point in hanging out the laundry here. Hopefully the user will finally learn and return as someone who can contribute again next year. Commented Jan 2, 2015 at 0:34
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    I have mostly been an observer, having had too few direct interactions with the user myself to take any direct action, but it is with my observations that I can vouch for the actions that the other moderators have taken.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 2, 2015 at 5:26
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    I second what BoltClock and AlexK have said. The fact that you can't see the stuff now, doesn't indicate that it didn't happen. A lot of people spend a lot of effort in removing crap before others can see them, we don't leave stuff lying around. Related: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/271184/… Commented Jan 2, 2015 at 5:58
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    The message explaining the ban (if indeed the gist above is mostly what has been sent to the user) is extremely bad because it just doesn't explains anything. If one user not wanting to work together with another user is a reason for a ban... thousands of bans would have to be done. Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 13:04

5 Answers 5

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I was the one who finally suspended lpapp for a year, so perhaps I should elaborate on how I arrived at that decision.

This was not an arbitrary action, nor was it driven by any one incident or interaction. Since they are deciding to air some part of this on their blog, I'll provide some nonspecific details in response.

This user had been warned by four moderators in six direct moderator messages and three suspensions prior to this. They had been suspended from Meta.SE separately at least once, in addition. They have been banned from chat on multiple occasions (currently serving a 30-day ban at the time this happened). They were repeatedly warned in comments and in chat by almost every single active moderator on the site.

We were instructed by Stack Exchange staff that if they proceeded with their behavior, we were to suspend for a year and be done with it. After that, an incident occurred that involved not just Stack Overflow moderators but those on another site and we decided it was time for them to go.

I consulted with three other moderators who were onsite at the time and we all agreed this needed to be done. Everyone else on the staff has had a chance to review this decision, and I have not heard a dissenting opinion yet.

I won't detail the specifics of the events here, but suffice to say that most of the relevant content was deleted from the site or is not publicly visible to normal community members. There's a lot more here than is stated in that blog post.

I strongly believe in the potential for reform among users, and it's why we repeatedly engage problematic subject matter experts before doing anything else. This often works, but not always. If we've exhausted every avenue to improve behavior, as we believed we had here, I'm willing to ask an expert to leave if they cannot abide by the code of conduct of these sites.

So no, you don't need to worry about getting banned out of the blue. Anyone this happens to should have had plenty of warning that it was coming.

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    In addition, they were currently serving a one-year chat ban on meta.se as well, at the time of suspension. Commented Jan 2, 2015 at 7:28
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    This explanation is probably all one can ask for. Not seeing the whole history we can probably never fully judge it. But seeing the hundreds of positive contributions of for example user lpapp one could say that it probably is also a pity for SO (mostly a pity that users that are giving great advice cannot control themselves, ....). Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 13:10
  • You had to ban him for a month or two. Now you made another horror-story on the long list of the SE-critical blogs. This action in this form, was a clear mistake and power misusage from you.
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 31, 2015 at 22:48
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    @PeterHorvath - An SE-critical blog written by the person I suspended. If you think that's an impartial and fair account of what happened, I have a bridge in New York to sell you.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Feb 1, 2015 at 0:20
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    @BradLarson ...maybe you are switching the cause and the effect?...
    – peterh
    Commented Feb 1, 2015 at 0:22
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Nothing you say will make any difference. As I've stated in other places, "mere mortals" (as you state) cannot see all the deleted content and otherwise hidden activity originating from suspended accounts. The fact that you think a user has done nothing wrong means we've done our jobs well in making sure all the crap that has come from that account has been cleaned up, leaving only the valuable content behind.

We are not going to expose all the wrongdoings of a user in order to convince the community that a suspension was warranted. It's none of the community's business what they did, and it's not their place to try and get another user out of a suspension. If the suspended user truly believes the suspension is not warranted, then it's between them, the moderators, and the Stack Exchange staff to work out the specific problems being targeted and come to an understanding.

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    "Nothing you say will make any difference." – this is what's wrong with this site nowadays. Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:14
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    @TheParamagneticCroissant: I'm really confused by this statement. While I can appreciate that one may have vested interest in getting someone they feel amiable with unbanned, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a moderator saying that this is a matter for the moderators.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:15
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    @Makoto there's definitely something wrong with that. Moderators are called "community moderators" because they are supposed to represent the community and not to enforce their own personal preferences. Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:20
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    @TheParamagneticCroissant: I'm willing to bet that it wasn't their opinion that forced the decision. I'm really doubting that it was. My feeling on all of this is to simply let the moderators work it out with this person, and that's all that needs to be said on the matter. You're free to huff and disagree with it, but it just ain't your call.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:23
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    @Makoto I don't want to engage in guessing, but if I had to guess, given the style of this answer, I wouldn't be convinced, honestly. The "Nothing you say will make any difference."-style approach to community-wise problems is definitely not something I welcome especially when they come from a moderator. Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:27
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    @Croissant How is suspending an abusive user not representing the community? I don't even understand how suspending a user can be based on opinions. It is reserved for very serious behavioral problems, and, as I've stated, you can't see those problems that have occurred. So why would a community member saying something mean anything to us when they have no idea what has happened?
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:35
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    @TheParamagneticCroissant this is what's wrong with this site nowadays that's nonsense. These borderline cases have been dealt with in private since Stack Overflow's very first day. If anything, things were more strict back then, since there was just Jeff to handle these cases and no established protocol, no huge pool of other moderators checking each other, no SE team, etc.
    – Pekka
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 22:04
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    Perhaps @TheParamagneticCroissant's concern was with the tone of your statement, "Nothing you say will make any difference" as it can come across as if it were a pronouncement of an angry god from on high, one that has little concern with the trifles of mere mortals such as us. I'm sure that this was not your intent, but you may wish to edit the statement to soften it just a little bit. I'm sure that you and all the moderators take seriously any and all of the opinions from the community, but that in this situation our knowledge of the situation is incomplete, and thus may carry less weight. Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 22:46
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    @HovercraftFullOfEels even from that perspective, it doesn't make sense to say that's "what's wrong nowadays." It's not like Jeff, in the early days, was famous for his empathetic and inclusive tone. Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 23:31
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    @DavidRobinson: I'm not saying that the first comment was correct or without hyperbole, but I do think that many fear that there is risk that a moderator's power could go to his/her head, and so that it might be best to try to avoid even seeming heavy handed or completely non-concerned with the statements of us mortals. Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 23:36
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    This answer is frank and direct. It's also 100% correct. I may have worded it differently, but I've only been peripherally involved. There's a bit of 'grief' flowing over this one.
    – Andrew Barber Mod
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 23:59
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Apparently this isn't as common a logic as I would think it is, but let's settle this regardless:

  • Moderators don't hate anyone, except for those who tried very hard making us hate them. (And yes, if you keep spitting in our faces, don't expect warm and gentle treatment from us, or anyone for that matter).
  • Moderators don't act unilaterally, we consult with others, moderators and employees before acting, especially on special cases (highly contributing users, edge cases, being unsure, etc).
  • Moderators are not Nazis, nor immortals. Seriously.
  • Moderators are subject to constant supervision, we get called out on meta plenty, every case is examined. Employees and community managers can and will ask us to answer for our actions if called out on.
  • Moderators will keep things as private as possible, because it's not nice to have private communications and things you deleted exposed for the world to see without you agreeing to it.

Now that that's out of the way:

I am not familiar with the direct circumstances of this particular case. I am not a moderator on Stack Overflow and thus don't have and don't ask for internal details on cases on Stack Overflow.

However I can assure you this with a 110% certainty. More than one person looked at the case. More than two and probably even more than ten, before this long a suspension was made on this high a reputation user.

I assure you that whatever reason said user was suspended, it was no mistake.


As for what you normal users can do (because, as we stated above, moderators are not immortals), use meta, use the contact-us form, but don't expect much. Like I said, this is a well known case, a lot of people participated in the decision, and it's unlikely that without some very very good reason, you'll be able to overthrow it.

Users are always given the chance to redeem themselves and improve their behavior. This user was no exception, and he didn't take the chance, even now.

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    I can absolutely vouch for the correctness of the things stated in this answer which ask for a little faith on the part of the reader.
    – Andrew Barber Mod
    Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 22:55
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    Here's my objection to this answer: arguing that you won't justify bans because it would violate the privacy of the person banned is reasonable if they don't want to argue over their ban. But when the banned user wants that dialogue, you're no longer protecting their privacy by keeping silent - you're just denying banned users who feel wronged the right to defend themselves before the community. It's frustrating to see the privacy justification deployed when silence is blatantly not being held to protect the banned user, but with the effect of shielding moderators' decisions from review.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Feb 19, 2015 at 23:28
  • @MarkAmery if the banned user gives their agreement to expose details, moderators will no longer keep anything private. If, for instance, the suspended user contacts another user, and asks them to post the details of the private moderator conversation, moderators will answer with full context and no holding back any details.
    – Madara's Ghost Mod
    Commented Apr 12, 2016 at 14:18
  • That's not what I've witnessed in the past, @MadaraUchiha - when lpapp was banned and some people made a fuss about it, and lpapp was (at least according to the linked blog post) specifically asking for the relevant posts and mod messages to be made public, Brad's response contained no details whatsoever about the behaviour that led to the ban and he accused the banned user of dishonestly authoring the blog post that purported to be by others.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 14, 2016 at 21:42
  • I hope to see a more open approach taken in the future, and I hope that you'll argue for that approach if the issue comes up, but that's simply not been the way up until now. It's not that I don't trust the mods, in general, to have good judgement - it's just that I like due process, openness, and the rest of us having the ability to hold you to account for how you wield power. Mods holding back all the details about a ban and smearing the banned user as a liar while he protested the unjustness of it and called for the details to be made public didn't sit well with me.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 14, 2016 at 21:46
  • Whoops, I replied to your comment without looking at where I was. Apparently I'm linking to posts from this very thread as examples of 'privacy' being used as a defence disingenuously. Well, it all still stands.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 14, 2016 at 21:51
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I couldn't see any rude comments or abusive usage of the trusted user tools when skimming through the OP's history.

Abusive behavior routinely leads to deletion. You can't see the deleted content. Whenever a user has been suspended for abusive behavior, most if not all the activity that led to this suspension is only visible to moderators.

Note that the source you cite is (whatever it pretends to be) a blog run by the user themselves. You can't treat what they say at face value.

Having had the occasional run in with that user on MSO or MSE myself, I can attest that they are not always honest. They spammed me about their blogs in comments for a while (I flagged these off-topic comments, so they're probably gone now). I was also several times the victim of bait-and-switch comments: they posted a comment, I replied to it, then they removed their comment and posted a different one and pretended the original comment had never existed. While the part that I've seen is not suspension-worthy behavior, it does lead me to suspect that there is other behavior that I didn't happen to see, and a suspension feels quite plausible to me.

No matter how technically competent someone is, if they can't participate in a community without lashing out, the community needs to protect itself. We can't always be attacking each others. If someone doesn't understand that, at some point, the benefits of their technical contributions stop outweighing the harm that they cause by driving people away through their hostility, and they need to take some time out and cool down.

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    "Note that the source you cite is (whatever it pretends to be) a blog run by the user themselves." I've noticed that this blog isn't exclusive for the user as it states. I can't tell if the blog entry I mentioned was posted by the user. There's a number of supporting users it seems (I'm not one of them in 1st place). Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:33
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    @πάνταῥεῖ This entry is certainly his style. Of course that doesn't prove it's him. Can you point at a blog entry which plausibly is from a different person? I've never seen one; but maybe he drew in other users since the initial days, this blog isn't on my regular rounds. Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:36
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    "Can you point at a blog entry which plausibly is from a different person?" I can't. And to be honest I'm in personal contact with lazslo. I can understand much of his frustration about this ban, and I also can reenact much of his frustration and acting (may be came out unproffessionally) when closing and deleting crappy questions (Thats one of my point's why I'm concerned so much). Commented Jan 1, 2015 at 21:43
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What can we mere mortals do, to convince moderators that this ban was inappropriate?

Likely nothing.

Given that the user had made lots of positive contributions in the past, the chances of them being contacted to calm their behavior down is a lot higher than if it were some low-reputation user.

Also, given that the suspension itself was for a year, it's the moderator saying that this person needed a whole year to cool off and get their act together to continue contributing to the community in a positive way. I strongly doubt that this was given on a whim, as an entire year's worth of punishment is...pretty strict.

This is a matter for the moderators, not us mere mortals.

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    No, it is our matter, because - theoretically - we are the community. The worth of lpapps work was ten thousand dollars here, simply banning him on both of the meta and the main site... well, it is purely evil. And his story is not the first, and probably won't be. Search SO-critical blogs on google, there are horrible stories about moderator power misusage.
    – peterh
    Commented Jan 31, 2015 at 22:44
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    Those blog posts and stories certainly are horrible. Unfounded facts, typos, not knowing how the sites work in basest sense that these bloggers argue are unfair or undocumented, severe bias, egotism. It's just an absolute trainwreck out there
    – random
    Commented Jan 31, 2015 at 23:01

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