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This is my first post on meta, so if I'm doing anything wrong, please tell me so I can do my best to correct it.

I started working with CakePHP 3.0 for one specific project, and I've had a lot of questions about this framework since a week ago. I've asked 4 of them on StackOverflow, but of course many of my questions has already been asked by someone else.

The problem is that CakePHP has a serious problem related to backward compatibility, because a solution to an issue in CakePHP 2.x may be completely inadequate to the exact same issue in CakePHP 1.3 or in CakePHP 3.0, as each version of the framework is practically a different framework (imo).

Nonetheless, there is a tag in StackOverflow to mark a question as related to (without specific version), besides the version specific tags like , and , among others. And it seems like the CakePHP community does not reinforce its people to be version specific when creating examples, documenting plugins, and asking questions, so beginners like me don't have to re-google stuff because a previous solution did not match the version I'm working with.

Thus, I'd like to suggest to disable the use of the tag and force developers to ask questions about a specific version of CakePHP. That way, I wouldn't have to read a question in depth just to be sure which version a question is about, and I would find more acurate questions/answers.

Any comments, suggestions and opinions are greatly appreciated.

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  • I believe the word you want is "backwards compatibility." I've never heard the term "retrocompatibility" before.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 0:17
  • Uh? Well maybe I'm making up words from Portuguese then... thanks, I'll edit my question Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 6:10
  • @GuiImamura I am portuguese too. I looked around for (less than) 2 minutes and I found that the word "retrocompatibility" isn't correct. However, "retro-compatibility" seems to be translatable from Google Translator (translate.google.com/?hl=pt-PT#en/pt/retro-compatibility). I would say that "retro-compatibility" is acceptable. But you can ask this question on english.stackexchange.com just to be sure. Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 18:42
  • @IsmaelMiguel Yeah I googled it too, right after I read jpmc26's comment, and I only found "retro-compatibility" too. I wasn't aware of the hyphen, nor that this apparently isn't a word in Portuguese either (even though we do use it frequently in Brazil), hahah. Thanks for noting it though :) Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 20:39
  • @GuiImamura This can be used in Portuguese from Portugal, but isn't the most correct word. Googling for "retrocompatibilidade" lead me to this page: pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilidade_reversa which isn't incorrect. But it isn't the most correct word in my opinion. Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 20:52

3 Answers 3

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I will go on a huge leap and introduce my idea.

I have worked once with cakephp and trust me: you definitively will want the versions separated.

Why don't we simply create the tags , and ?

You will still have information regarding to the version and minor releases would be included too, without filling StackOverflow with cake everywhere!

I think that the tag is still needed for meta-data and for general discussion.

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  • Are the 1.x, 2.x, and 3.x versions similar enough to warrant grouping them together? I get the impression there's some pretty significant variation across minor versions.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 1:16
  • @jpmc26 From what I understand, they only add featured form 1.2 to 1.3, for example. I think that If you specify the feature in the title, it will be easily recognizable which minor version it is. Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 3:41
  • I support this idea. But I'm not sure if the cakephp tag will really be necessary. Maybe replacing it with something like cakephp-meta tag would avoid users from being non-version-specific? Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 6:23
  • @GuiImamura I agree with your point, but what about general discussion? Imagine a question like "What is the best database structure for cakephp?" (not the best example, but it's one that came up to my mind). Using the cakephp-meta tag would be a bad thing. Thats why I still think the tag is necessary. That's the only reason. Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 18:35
  • As someone noted on my answer, several technologies do have version specific tags in addition to their main one. Python, PostgreSQL, and twitter-bootstrap are examples. Whether this really ends up being especially useful or effective is an open debate, I suppose. Python 2.x and 3.x have some vastly different features, so it makes sense there. There's also some pretty significant differences between minor versions, but all of them share quite a bit in common. For PG, I don't really know. I haven't ever seen any instance of a huge difference across 8.x and 9.x, other than awesome new features.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 7, 2014 at 4:24
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The problem is that CakePHP has a serious problem related to retrocompatibility, because a solution to an issue in CakePHP 2.x may be completely inadequate to the exact same issue in CakePHP 1.3 or in CakePHP 3.0, as each version of the framework is practically a different framework (imo).

As you're already aware, CakePHP acknowledges that major releases may break backwards compatibility. For example, their backwards compatibility guide says:

Ensuring that you can upgrade your applications easily and smoothly is important to us. That’s why we only break compatibility at major release milestones. You might be familiar with semantic versioning, which is the general guideline we use on all CakePHP projects. In short, semantic versioning means that only major releases (such as 2.0, 3.0, 4.0) can break backwards compatibility. Minor releases (such as 2.1, 3.1, 3.2) may introduce new features, but are not allowed to break compatibility. Bug fix releases (such as 2.1.2, 3.0.1) do not add new features, but fix bugs or enhance performance only.

CakePHP appears to be in active development and they provide a migration guide for every major and minor release. So it's quite likely that using an old version serves no purpose. I'm not entirely clear on CakePHP's philosophy, but it sounds like that as a result, old major releases are "deprecated".

Developers would want to focus on the latest and greatest build but the tags exist to cater to those who have old versions.

However, I think that restricting questions to specific versions would actively be harmful. Unlike C++, where major versions are "relatively stable" for several years or more, CakePHP's developmental cycle is very short.

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    It appears to me your argument it actually supporting the idea of version specific tags. Short development cycles combined with each version breaking compatibility means a general cakephp tag is pretty useless, except for meta discussions about the CakePHP project in general.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Dec 5, 2014 at 9:11
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    Thank you for your reply. It brings an important information which I didn't have, that CakePHP.org intencionally breaks retrocompatibility of their framework, but like @deceze, I believe that justifies disabling the cakephp tag because each major release practically obsoletes questions and discussions related to older versions. Why do you think that restricting questions to specific versions would actively be harmful? Commented Dec 5, 2014 at 22:50
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You are essentially making a burninate request here.

However, this particular suggestion is a very bad idea for one reason: followers. People follow a tag. This gives the question priority when they're viewing the question list on the front page; in other words, it lets people focus on their area of expertise. People who use CakePHP regularly are not going to follow 15 (that's hyperbole) different CakePHP tags, one per version. They are going to follow , and that will draw them to your CakePHP questions. This is great for everyone: experts find questions they can answer faster, and askers get better answers faster. That's actually one of the primary purposes for tags.

The way StackOverflow works is that your questions are usually going to be about a specific problem. So you are going to run into a problem, and then you're going to find a question that has a solution for a different version. You'll try it out for your version, and it won't work. What you do in this case is

  1. Keep looking to see if there is already a question about your particular version (Google is your friend; include the version number in your search.).
  2. If you can't find anything, you get to post a new question! Questions asking about a different version aren't duplicates if the old answers don't work on your version. Just make sure that you link back to the question with the non-working answer and explain how/why it didn't work in your current version.
  3. Leave a comment on the old question/answer indicating that it doesn't work for your version. If you got an answer on your question, you can also leave a link back to that answer. If you know which versions it does work for, you could possibly suggest an edit to include those into the question or answer.

I do understand that it can be frustrating, but this kind of detective work is part of a developer's life. You'll find that you spend a significant amount of time working through unexpected problems, reading about them online, and trying out solutions. Just be glad you have the Internet to turn to; imagine what it was like 20 years ago before we had great resources like StackOverflow.

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  • I understand your point. I was just hoping that it could be easier. What do you think about Ismael Miguel's idea though? If we had one tag per major release, we would have 3 tags (4 on next major release). I think that the differences between each major release justifies this. Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 14:44
  • By this logic, we shouldn't have any version specific tags at all. If there is enough difference between versions that answers for one version will not work for another, there probably should be a version specific tag like we do for everything else (postgresql, twitter-bootstrap, etc.).
    – cimmanon
    Commented Dec 6, 2014 at 22:53
  • @cimmanon Don't get me wrong. I was responding to the notion of removing of the non-version tag. I use Python and PostgreSQL extensively, which also have this problem. The usual wisdom seems to be "tag it with both the non-version tag and the version tag, when version tag is appropriate." The problem is knowing when such a version tag is appropriate. If you're having a problem, how would you even know if it applies to other versions unless you tried it in other versions first? It's not an easy problem, but the non-version tag needs to stay.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 7, 2014 at 3:07
  • @GuiImamura I'm not really opposed or in favor of adding additional version-specific tags. As I described above, other technology tags do have those, but it's still pretty hard to use the version specific ones effectively. Generally speaking, no question should be tagged with only the version specific tag because followers should have a central tag to follow. I can't imagine a case when leaving the non-version tag out would be appropriate, but if there is one, it would pretty obscure. So the version specific tags can't stand on their own, which begs the question of whether they're good tags.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 7, 2014 at 3:10

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