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I was reviewing reopen votes on Stack Overflow and chose the "leave closed" button for Firefox 33.0 won't open a specific local application: Error code: sec_error_invalid_key.

In my opinion, that looks like Super User material.

To my surprise, not only my review was labeled as incorrect, but the question is actually protected by the community.

I'm not saying it's a bad question per se, but looking at the topics list on both sites...

Stack Overflow

  • a specific programming problem, or
  • a software algorithm, or
  • software tools commonly used by programmers; and is
  • a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development

Super User

  • computer hardware,
  • computer software, or
  • personal and home computer networking

I underlined the most suitable items in bold here.

So the issue to me lies in the interpretation of "software tools commonly used by programmers".

I'm a programmer and I use a number of software tools besides an IDE...

Next time I see a Stack Overflow question about an e-mail client, a spreadsheet or rich text editor, or... a browser, should I just answer it like I do for Java questions?

Note

I found a similar question, How is it decided if something is a 'software tool commonly used by programmers?', but there isn't really much material to answer my own doubt.

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  • 15
    Firefox is definitely not among "software tools commonly used by programmers". My guess is Community automatically locked the question because of the number and kind of answers (looking at the list, I bet there are a couple deleted as well). IMO this is SU material, not SO.
    – Jongware
    Nov 12, 2014 at 13:42
  • 5
    “protected by the community” has nothing to do with the community's opinion of the appropriateness of the question. It means that the question is attracting low-quality answers, for reason that may or may not have to do with the contents of the question. Even the perfect question could have to be protected if a link to it ended up being listed on expressyouropinion.com. Nov 12, 2014 at 13:46
  • @PascalCuoq: If ou mean reddit, say so. Nov 12, 2014 at 13:47
  • 2
    If I understand correctly then, a community-protected question fails negative (close, downvote) reviews while it shouldn't necessarily.
    – Mena
    Nov 12, 2014 at 14:04
  • @Deduplicator I don't follow closely any of these sites. I know there are several of them and that it would be unfair to pin the blame on anyone of them in particular. It is also not relevant to the point I wanted to make, which is that “protected” is not a judgement of the question but a reaction to external factors. Nov 12, 2014 at 14:17
  • Only needs one more close-vote. And @Pas: Good enough. It's just that yours leads to a domain-squatter ;-) Nov 12, 2014 at 14:19
  • @Deduplicator I had omitted to vote until now. Done.
    – Mena
    Nov 12, 2014 at 14:20
  • I think sometimes one can just use common sense. Everything that doesn't need common sense can be done by computers. Nov 12, 2014 at 17:09
  • 4
    @Jongware Firefox is used by developers of Javascript code.
    – Travis
    Nov 12, 2014 at 18:04
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    @Travis: sure -- for one, you can look up things on the internet. That still does not make that particular question on topic for SO. Consider a question on Notepad, also a common tool. Should everything about it be on topic? (Found an example: superuser.com/questions/790466/…)
    – Jongware
    Nov 12, 2014 at 18:26
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    @Travis Beer is a very important tool to our software development process, but sadly it is not on-topic for Stack Overflow. Nov 13, 2014 at 1:38
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    @Jongware I agree that not all Firefox questions are on topic. But Jongware said "Firefox is definitely not among "software tools commonly used by programmers"" and I'm not sure that is true. I was only stating that I don't think its an absolute that Firefox is not used. Hard to say how common it is but I have used the developer tools. If developers weren't using the built in debugging tools they wouldn't be a thing.
    – Travis
    Nov 13, 2014 at 1:43
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    That question is definitely a Super User case, and shouldn't be on Stack Overflow.
    – AStopher
    Nov 13, 2014 at 17:32
  • @Jongware Are you sure? Where does that place firefox's dev tools then?
    – simonzack
    Nov 14, 2014 at 14:44

3 Answers 3

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Use common sense. You'll have to read it as "software tools commonly used when programming". If programmers are likely to play computer games, that doesn't mean that questions about computer games are on-topic.

Web browsers are kind of a grey area though, and again we have to use common sense. If the question is "I'm having problem surfing the web with Firefox" then the question is definitely off-topic. If the question is "I'm doing web development and my page looks strange in Firefox" then the question is on-topic. Not because Firefox is a programming tool, but because it is a target platform.

If you apply common sense to the particular question linked, it can be boiled down to "I'm having problems with a certain application since I upgraded Firefox" and should be closed.

It could have been on-topic if the poster had written something like "I'm having problems with my application since I upgraded Firefox. This is what my application does: ... It uses the following resources which I think could be the cause: ... Here is the research of what I have done to troubleshoot the issue: ..."

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  • I agree with your answer, in fact it was my interpretation as well. If you read my question though, this was not SO's interpretation and it is still debated amongst a number of users who contributed to this thread so far, the main counter-argument being, "I'm having problems with a certain application since I upgraded Firefox but in a techy way".
    – Mena
    Nov 14, 2014 at 15:08
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    I also agree. Firefox is a browser, but it's also a development platform. Heck, it even has a programming language. I like the distinction you made in paragraph two. Nov 15, 2014 at 1:06
  • I think that the second paragraph is the longer version of "and is a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development".
    – Braiam
    Aug 10, 2020 at 23:40
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The wording of the topic list for Stack Overflow is perhaps a little bit vague. Perhaps the wording should be tightened up a bit; I see two potential directions this could be accomplished:

  • software tools commonly used by programmers for programming

or

  • software tools commonly specifically used by programmers …

Either of these changes would remove the loophole alluded to in the question.

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  • Obsessing over trivial wording changes and selective use of accentuation in the Help Center, close reasons and various other places, is a popular pastime on Meta, but at the end of the day it amounts to deciding what color to paint the bike shed. Nov 15, 2014 at 1:05
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    I don't know as this is an insignificant change, though! It brings some questions that are already kind of marginal out of scope, such as questions about using vim (which is currently in-scope as a "tool commonly used by programmers").
    – user149341
    Nov 15, 2014 at 1:12
  • vim questions are on-topic. Nov 15, 2014 at 1:34
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    Under the current rules, yes, I'm aware they are. Whether they should be is another matter; most of the questions about vim I see on the site are not "programming questions" — if it weren't for the catch-all "commonly used by programmers" clause, they'd belong perfectly well on SU or Unix.SE.
    – user149341
    Nov 15, 2014 at 1:57
  • IMO we should make both of those changes, and they are not at all trivial. Jul 18, 2023 at 23:02
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The question is not about Firefox as a tool, it is about a developer having problems using Firefox as a platform. The specific problem involves code signing. It is absolutely on-topic for SO. In the list of SO topics it would fit under "a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development".

Even if the question had been about Firefox as a tool, that wouldn't necessarily have ruled it out as an SO question. Firefox is more than just a browser; it contains many debugging tools and there's even a version with a complete IDE.

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    Well it's not about FireFox developer tools, but rather about launching an app through FF, i.e. on FF usage as a browser. I still think the scope is at least up for debate.
    – Mena
    Nov 13, 2014 at 20:04
  • @Mena I never said it was about Firefox developer tools.
    – arx
    Nov 13, 2014 at 20:21
  • correct, you haven't. I was just pointing out a counter-example for which I wouldn't have voted to leave closed.
    – Mena
    Nov 13, 2014 at 20:36
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    @Mena - no. "The same application opens fine with Chrome, and Firefox can open other applications that use HTTPS with a self-signed certificate." makes it abundantly clear that the asker is troubleshooting the issue with a developer's curiosity, ie, they are trying to figure out why their own site is incompatible with this particular browser. End users don't usually run sites locally anyway. Nov 13, 2014 at 22:58
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    @ChrisStratton that's all good a fine, but it's still a question about how FireFox (33) works, i.e. specifications on how version X of browser Y works. One could try and troubleshoot how latest Thunderbird's spam filters or GIMP's conversion formats work with a "developer's curiosity" and that would still make for a debatable SO question in my opinion.
    – Mena
    Nov 13, 2014 at 23:05
  • You don't think how GIMP works, in the context of someone trying to get their own GIMP plugin to work with a new version, would be on topic? Because that's quite parallel to what this question is - there's an engine, and an existing software object isn't working with a new version of it. Why? That's a developer question. It's only a Superuser question if the asker is unable to modify the program or the engine. Nov 13, 2014 at 23:08
  • @ChrisStratton ok so if a user asks a question about python related to GIMP plugins I'm all with you - SO material. In this instance it is not even comparable though. I can't really make sense of the last part of your response: "It's only a Superuser question if the asker is unable to modify the program or the engine."... "Modifying" the program or the engine sounds like reverse-engineering to me, which would neither make sense for SO, nor SU. That is, unless I got the semantics completely backwards?
    – Mena
    Nov 13, 2014 at 23:16
  • It's hardly "reverse engineering" when you have the source - by all appearances, the asker is the creator or at least signer of the local application which isn't working with the new firefox version. Nov 13, 2014 at 23:18
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    @ChrisStratton so if you have the source, you're asking about code. SO material allright. In this instance the OP asks about an application without mentioning a single line of code and very little context, and about specifications on how self-signed certificates work in version X of software Y. Again, not SO to me.
    – Mena
    Nov 13, 2014 at 23:20

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