-17

One reason of voting a question is to keep the quality of website, good rises to the top; bad is forced to the bottom.
Then a hurried down-vote without considering the details of a question and just judging it according to its title or the reputation of the asker, wouldn't help to reach this goal.

Today I asked this question: `ScrollToCaret` scrolls to the end of the selected text, how can I scroll to the begining of it?, and just few seconds after posting the question I received a down vote, why? I don't know.

But the title of the question may suggest it is a repeated or a trival question, while if you check the accepted answer it wasn't that easy and could be counted a useful question.

Some may feel it is their responsibility to immediately judge questions and cast votes with the aim of improving the website questions. it can be a source of prejudgements by some members.

I think the members should be aware if they are in hurry or are not specialized in the context of question not voting is better than a vote without any specific reason, because in long-term it won't help to reach the goals of the system.

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    I don't know that technology so I won't comment on whether or not the question is an easy one. However, we cannot know the mind of the downvoter. It could be that the person really saw something problematic with your question. Votes are private and reasons to cast votes are private too. There's no means to know what drove the voter. On the other hand, it could be that the voter misread your question and mistakenly saw something worthy of a downvote. (In the sense that they would agree, upon reexamination, that the downvote was unwarranted.) There's no recourse against this either.
    – Louis
    Oct 30, 2014 at 17:47
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    With the state it was in when I looked, I personally wouldn't have downvoted your question. Looking at the first revision, I probably would've edited your grammar a bit before considering a downvote. It's hard to say what the downvoter was thinking. All in all, don't take one downvote too seriously. If you get four or five quickly, then you should be taking another look at your question to see what you could phrase better, or if you can't tell what's wrong, post a comment that politely asks if there is a way you can improve your question. :)
    – Kendra
    Oct 30, 2014 at 17:50
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    @Louis The answer required DllImport so it wasn't trivial. It is similar to very easy questions about cursor position in text boxes, so someone not reading carefully could have assumed that it was downvote-worthy. Oct 30, 2014 at 17:50
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    @gnat I don't see how either of those deal with people voting on questions after only reading the title, and not looking at the body of the post.
    – Servy
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:01
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    @Servy there's no way to tell if this problem exists or, more precisely, if this is what happened here. If the question was originally posted with a text like "Use Flash" and was only edited into shape later, in grace-period, it would be totally okay for someone to vote it down as is, in a second and not wait for five minutes checking maybe garbage turns into gold
    – gnat
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:19
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    @gnat You're quite right that it's impossible to tell if this is what's happening for any particular instance. It would be impossible even with your proposed features. You'd need to be able to read someone's mind to know how much of the post they read before voting on it.
    – Servy
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:21
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    @Servy you got to be kidding. If the first draft of a new [post] becomes part of the permanent revision history, it would be completely possible. No need to read one's mind, just read first draft and tell whether voting it looks fair or not
    – gnat
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:25
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    @gnat So if you wouldn't downvote a particular post then that is absolute proof that nobody else would downvote that same post unless they didn't read it? It's not possible for someone else to want to downvote a post that you wouldn't, ever?
    – Servy
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:26
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    @Kendra I understand that. Thing is, I don't need to "be sure why they downvoted" - I don't need this at all. All I want is to be sure whether the voting looks fair to me - I can't have it without first draft and I can with it. It's simple as that
    – gnat
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:37
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    I've done your battle before and I got thousand of downvotes. You can link here resources to research papers proving people to be childish and you will only get hated. Read Dale Carnegie: "don't criticize". Why don't you opne a question saying: "are the hurried downvoters profitable for this community?". Have you made a scientifical review by an high level user of some dozen of questions to verify if their downvote was valid or harmful for SE?
    – Revious
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:40
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    @gnat So if you can figure out whether you think the downvote is fair what do you intend to do with that information? If you think someone's downvote isn't fair what do you think should happen?
    – Servy
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:42
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    @gnat You wouldn't just vote on the post based on its own merits?
    – Servy
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:43
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    Unless you are going to suggest something that should be done; I don't see this doing much besides being a rant. Its human nature to pre-judge; and your downvote wasn't even that fast (see answers). Very few questions that don't deserve it are downvoted; so I really don't see a way to address your concern. Oct 30, 2014 at 19:00
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    @AirThomas speaking of prejudging! I've been reading since it was first posted... phrases like that will draw a response Oct 30, 2014 at 19:20
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    What's with all the updates? You're not in a forum or chat room; you're in a Q&A site. Oct 31, 2014 at 16:33

3 Answers 3

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Yes, users will "pre-judge" a question based on the title, all the time, every time.

For example; if I see a title: "I hate StackOverflow" (this was literally a title a while ago); I will probably downvote/VTC right away. Similarly with "Why am I getting NullReferenceException".

Most of this is just human nature; and when you consider the flood of questions SO receives (especially on popular tags like ), quick judgment calls are necessary for effective moderation.

Now, I wouldn't have downvoted your question, and your title was fine (although unfortunately similar to many duplicate questions). Unquestionably, the down-voting user had some sort of opinion on the question when navigating to it, though we'll never know if he already decided to downvote.

Remember; your title and "summary" (the first few lines of your question) are the first impression you will give to someone looking at the question. If its a bad one, sometimes a person isn't careful when reading, and you'll get a undeserved downvote.

To your updates:

  1. Why are we "in a hurry" to judge new questions? Because we are busy, and trying to let other users know if the question is worth their time. Also, because we are trying to keep a site that gets thousands of questions a day clean. That said, I try to wait a few minutes before voting (after posting a comment) unless the post is ridiculously bad in order to give the OP a chance to respond.
  2. See above
  3. Its called moderation. I highly doubt anyone is here to just do that (that would be simply depressing to do); but either way, SO users believe in moderating the site, and so they do so. In fact, users are pretty generous with helpful comments (with or without a vote). I'm not saying we couldn't be better about it, but I have not seen a culture of nitpicking here (at least in C#).

Something else to keep in mind; votes can be reversed by the user that cast them if the post is edited. We do try to allow questions to "come back".

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    I would say that more than human nature this is especially related to some personality trait which no one should be proud of but that cannot be easily eliminated. A lot of psychologial literature explains that people prefer to judge instead than to work hard on themself and to grow. This comes also from childhood. There are many books which explain how childish most of us are, but when we would try to criticize someone he will get angry with us :-) - it's funny, but the easiest way to escape this is explained by Dale Carnegie or many authors like him.
    – Revious
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:39
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    @Revious I agree that its mostly human nature, though I'm not sure about the rest of it. We make snap decisions/judgements every day; we have to in order to process the world around us. I wouldn't even say "we shouldn't be proud of it". Oct 30, 2014 at 18:42
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    I'm not an expert.. I've a basic knowledge of psychology. I've opened a question here if you want to try to get deeper on the question: cogsci.stackexchange.com/questions/8475/… or, if you prefer, you can read of the mechanism we use in trying to see ourself as ok and the others as KO. Some are called fundamental attribution error, rationalization, confirmation bias.
    – Revious
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:49
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    @BradleyDotNET it seems the basic issue I have with this answer is that you are stating you are aimming to help other users by down voting based on reading a title only. I will decide if a post has value a down vote wont influence me especially since I can see that you are noting above that you jump to conclusion without consideration and that is something we need to reduce on SO not increase.
    – sayth
    Dec 5, 2014 at 13:01
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    @sayth "your title and "summary" (the first few lines of your question) are the first impression you will give to someone looking at the question." (Emphasis mine.) No, he said the title and first few lines of the question are what most people judge by, which is accurate and completely acceptable. It's like a book- If the first chapter or so is horribly written, are you going to read the rest of the book in-depth? Probably not.
    – Kendra
    Dec 5, 2014 at 14:46
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    @sayth I'm not saying that at all. Kendra basically got it right, but my point was that you need to have a clean, well-written question, especially at the beginning, if you want a good reception. I don't vote without reading (or at least skimming in the wall of text questions) the whole post. That said, if I have a bad first impression, I'm more likely to notice all the flaws. Dec 5, 2014 at 17:15
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    Let's make a new Stack overflow where you can't downvote called "there are no stupid questions only stupid answers". The answer to the OPs question that was DOWNVOTED THE MOST is the best answer to this. "are down votes improving this community"? Read the very last answer here. Some of you guys need to get off your high horse. Idk if ya'll learned coding from books about punch cards only, but our ver.2019 of learning is to go to the internet for clarification on those things that you don't get yet. That's how we progress. Stop hating on people who are just starting out and still learning Apr 28, 2019 at 4:47
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    @olli Going to the web for knowledge is great. Going there and posting a question without doing the requisite effort to answer without a new question is another matter. Apr 29, 2019 at 16:03
  • @olli Of course that just rehashes the continual issue with the eternal September and overall site quality discussion Apr 29, 2019 at 16:09
  • @BradleyDotNET of course, and I mean things like duplicate question, too localized, etc, are valid reasons to close. Looking back at some of my own old questions - did I need to ask? Could I have found the answer elsewhere? Perhaps. But now it's easily accessible in a Q&A format. What's wrong with getting all the stupid questions archived as Q&A? People will find them when searching, and they'll find an answer. Your feed might contain a stupid question every once in a while - if you don't wanna answer it, just ignore it. What's the big deal? Apr 30, 2019 at 18:41
  • @olli Watch a high traffic tag. The big deal is that its not one bad (basic questions, assuming not dupes, are fine) question once in a while, its that its a flood of bad questions. Apr 30, 2019 at 18:44
  • @BradleyDotNET well, I guess I can see how in an effort to combat bad questions, helpful ones get downvoted as collateral. TBH tho instead of fighting them, I'd let them go... Which is what I'll do with this topic. Luckily I didn't get too discouraged as a newbie asking all my bad questions, and I got helpful answers. And most bad questions are still indexed here, so I keep finding my answers to them. Apr 30, 2019 at 18:49
11

The down vote on your question came 1:07 after your post. That is not "just a few seconds".

Questions tend to get seen quickly upon initial posting. And it took me about 15 seconds to read and understand your question. So, I wouldn't assume too much here.

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    The speed of the first three up-votes here is ironic ;) Oct 30, 2014 at 18:42
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    Thanks for this answer. I had the suspicion that the timing posited in the question was not correct.
    – Louis
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:42
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    Andrew, what about taking 100 questions (randomly) which have got hurried downvotes and 100 questions casually. Then trying to review (with an human help) the real value of the question. By this test which is done in every research paper published (it's based on the idea of double blind against placebo) you could mesure in rational way if this kind of downvotes are effective or not to measure the quality of the questions.
    – Revious
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:46
  • Okey, but does the down voter had an answer for the question within that period? I suspect, then I can't find another reason why it happened, Do you want to say this trend does not exist? I don't want to say I am sure 100% but take 50%, that's a probability, and please get my purpose of the massage, I don't bother was it true or not but with many posts I felt the arrogant behavior of some people here
    – Ahmad
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:47
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    I try to formulate the concept in another way. Science guy got bored of opinions. Your opinion and mine are different. Who is right? We don't know. So they wondered how to measure in a statistical way if something is effective or not. You could even find out that hurried downvotes are only harmful for the community. What would you do then?
    – Revious
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:48
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    @Revious If you think something needs to be changed, go ahead and do that research, draw conclusions, and make a proposal. But I'm not sure why you are making that case to me. I'm simply saying that there was plenty of time to judge the question, as it was. I've stated no opinion about whether it's correct to vote like that, or not. Oct 30, 2014 at 18:54
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    @Ahmad If by "this trend", you mean someone reads a question and votes based on their opinion of it, I sure hope that's a trend. Oct 30, 2014 at 18:55
  • @AndrewBarber I don't know should I modify my question again or not, but why people here like to judge and cast votes??! I feel they are too hurry to judge and cast vote, to help the system? yes many of them cause the system somehow mandates it
    – Ahmad
    Oct 30, 2014 at 18:59
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    Why do we like to judge and cast votes? Because that's a vital part of how this site works in the first place. Without that voting, we'd be another Yahoo! answers. Oct 30, 2014 at 19:00
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    @Ahmad You are seriously suggesting that we cast votes less often? This might not be the right place for you. The voting system is integral to making this site work. Good rises to the top; bad is forced to the bottom and dealt with. BTW, totally agree that a "trend" of voting based on our opinions of posts is something to be desired. I would upvote Andrew Barbers comment, but I'm out of votes :( Oct 30, 2014 at 19:03
  • @AndrewBarber: only because you are a community moderator. In the past I tried to give a few advice to this community and I got answered like if I was dumb. I got also banned on meta. You know which was one of the advice? To put a warning before question banning people :-) . Since you are a person which is delegated to pull the community in the right direction, please, try to do your best since no one will be blamed or banned for an advice which was so good than the community has choiced to adopt it in the future.
    – Revious
    Oct 30, 2014 at 19:09
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    @AndrewBarber: for example. I love the votes here, but this sentence: "Without that voting, we'd be another Yahoo! answers." is scientifically proved to be a cognitive distortion called all or nothing thinking: panicdisorder.about.com/od/livingwithpd/tp/… There are shades. Nothing bad, and very common, but please write it into the FAQ. Tell to every mod. Please don't use this distorsion any more. It's really not a valid argumentation at all (many mod and high rep users do the same cognitive error)
    – Revious
    Oct 30, 2014 at 19:12
  • @AndrewBarber BradleyDotNET and Barber, I modified again my question, I don't say it should be another Yahoo! answers, but a balanced approach could exist, I don't say moderators or members shouldn't judge or vote, I say they are somehow obsessed with it. I look for the roots of prejudgement.
    – Ahmad
    Oct 30, 2014 at 19:17
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    @Ahmad Obsessed is a pretty strong word. I use the site; I open questions that look like I should act on them (be it with moderation, an answer, or both) and then take the action. That I cast more votes than post answers should be obvious, its much faster to vote (and answerable questions are sometimes rare)! I did try to address your comments in my answer though, see the edit. Oct 30, 2014 at 19:30
  • @BradleyDotNET, Thank you, I also added an update to my question, I expect people here don't judge on my selected words but my meaning
    – Ahmad
    Oct 30, 2014 at 19:51
-7

Sometimes happens that a good question is moderator downvoted in a hurry, but after some time (typically months) interested users stumble upon your question (by searching on google a similar problem) and if your question is good it will be fairly upvoted.

The worst situation is when your question is closed within days, as no one will be able to judge anymore.

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    A couple problems with this answer; First: I don't think you meant "moderator downvoted"; I think you just meant downvoted, in general. Second: Questions that should be put on-hold at all should be put on-hold quickly, so that the question can be improved before wild-guess-answers begin to flow in. It does not in any way stop people's ability to 'judge' the question. Oct 31, 2014 at 12:56
  • Thank you, there was a point in your answer, you mean that a good question finally collects its votes
    – Ahmad
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:45
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    I agree with @achmad that a good point was that good questions do collect up votes, often. Regardless of previous down votes. The question linked to here, for example, got up votes. Oct 31, 2014 at 14:59
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    Ironic how this is a REALLY good point, yet it has so many down votes... I guess some people see SO as a mental gym for the elite (and only the elite) others wanna help users learn and grow. I learned and grew a lot since I started learning to code, using SO a lot. But the closes and downvotes were quite discouraging. Today my top 2 questions have combined over 50k views, but only received a combined 24 upvotes. Leads me to believe that there was a lot of value in my questions, as people must be googling and asking the same thing a lot, but at the time it wasn't elite enough to ask it. Apr 28, 2019 at 4:39
  • @olli My highest question is only a score 14, questions just don't tend to attract upvotes (except the really spectacular ones). I wouldn't read too much into that part. Apr 29, 2019 at 16:11
  • @BradleyDotNET I wonder how many upvotes were canceled out from "hurried downvotes" Apr 30, 2019 at 18:35
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    @olli You can always see the score split by clicking on it (above a certain rep level). Time is harder to see of course. Apr 30, 2019 at 18:38
  • Haha, I got downvoted too often, I'm not at that rep level yet :P Apr 30, 2019 at 18:53

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