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I was reviewing first posts on Stack Overflow and came across one that needed an edit due to poor quality, https://stackoverflow.com/review/first-posts/6078387

I clicked on edit and was shown a page with a single line of text indicating that the post had been deleted.

I clicked the back button and then clicked on "No action needed" and was told that I failed the test.

What gives? I clearly wanted to edit the post to fix errors, and when I was told that the post was deleted, there was nothing for me to do.

Clicking edit on a bad post test should pass the test and move on, not present the reviewer with a "this post has been deleted" message which would just cause a logical reviewer to go back and click "no action needed" to continue on to the next review.

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  • 1
    It's tough to infer without you showing us what audit you're talking about.
    – Makoto
    Oct 25, 2014 at 15:52
  • 10
    Was it this review?
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Oct 25, 2014 at 15:52
  • 2
    Yes. Edited the post to indicate that. Can down-voters please explain down-vote reasons? This seems to be a ligitimate bug in the review system to me. Trying to edit a bad test post should pass the test. Oct 25, 2014 at 15:58
  • 3
    Actually, it should skip the test. Oct 25, 2014 at 22:15
  • 1
    I agree that trying to edit the post in a "first posts" audit should pass / skip the review. The funny thing is that, looking at the review code, it already seems to be trying to do that. (There's even a comment saying "don't wastes (sic) someones time entering an edit we're going to discard".) Based on the report, it looks like this is broken somehow, making this indeed a genuine bug. Oct 27, 2014 at 15:06
  • I thought it was "STOP! Collaborate and listen." (Which is good, because if you're going to collaborate, you should listen to each other.) Interesting technicality...back button does cause all kinds of problems, that's the nature of time travel. Are you answering the question about the past or about the future you peeked into? Ideally you should be able to register your thoughts about the history independent of the future..."I'd have edited it this way if I didn't know it was deleted". So maybe a warning: "You're auditing the past!" Oct 27, 2014 at 15:10
  • @HostileFork Maybe Mr. Jeremy should avoid using "time-travel" to return to the position where he planned to be. The page must be getting confused here with cached states. Use in site navigation to navigate your way through the site, and you should be more likely to avoid this obvious bug. Oct 27, 2014 at 15:21
  • 2
    I would go as far as saying that the system should stop these "tests" of proven reviewers so as to not waste our time. Personally, every time I see the "that was a test" text, I close the tab. Oct 27, 2014 at 15:22
  • @Chris Testing proven reviewers isn't necessarily testing the reviewer. It's important to test the test. Oct 27, 2014 at 15:35
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    @HostileFork I can only speak to the effect it has on me personally. I feel like it wastes my time. I was just reviewing, and just got a test. Passed it... like I always do, every time. Saw that I was being tested, and saw the notification regarding this reply, so I clicked away from reviewing... I'm done with it today after having my time wasted yet again. Oct 27, 2014 at 15:37
  • 1
    @HostileFork In my view, instead of testing ME, a proven user that is trying to help, the burden should be on the people posting the garbage in the first place -- the newer, unproven users. The answerers aren't tested with fake questions to demonstrate their good faith, the questioners have open reign to post any old thing they want to. It seems that the focus of the process is at the wrong end. Anyway, that's a whole other thread. Oct 27, 2014 at 15:40

3 Answers 3

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Fixed as of May 7, 2018.


So... This is a bug. It's been reported before:

I gotta confess, I'm a bit embarrassed here... I apparently never tested this with a user that could only suggest edits. Near as I can tell, editing a "known bad" audit from the First Posts queue will fail every time there - redirecting to the full editor. Which knows nothing about audits.

This appears to have been broken for a good long while. Go figure...

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  • this says fixed as of May 7th, but it's May 9th and I literally just had this happen and was about to make a follow-up issue here on meta. The question was this one: stackoverflow.com/questions/13942628/… (answer seems to have been actually deleted so I can't link to it). Ah, here's the review link: stackoverflow.com/review/first-posts/19679618 -- and now I'm locked out for 8 days as a result.
    – Venantius
    May 9, 2018 at 13:41
  • I should have been more clear in my answer, @venantius - it's fixed in that it actually let you review the post; previous it failed to do that, as described by the asker here (it would redirect you to a "deleted answer" page). Trying to edit a low-quality post will still fail the audit, as it has for folks with full editing rights for 5 years or so; that's a separate discussion.
    – Shog9
    May 9, 2018 at 13:48
  • Ah, you're right that these are different. I got caught off guard by the title, which as described sounds like exactly what I did. Is there an actual post in meta for the problem I'm describing, which was (in my opinion) even worse than the one described here?
    – Venantius
    May 9, 2018 at 14:37
  • Not sure there is for this queue, @Venantius; folks have posted about it a lot for the Low Quality queue.
    – Shog9
    May 9, 2018 at 21:35
  • See my answer here please, @Venantius - this behavior ended up being a bug as well.
    – Shog9
    May 18, 2018 at 16:29
  • much appreciated on the follow-up!
    – Venantius
    May 18, 2018 at 22:31
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I'm not going to go as far to say that it's a "no brainer", but we can tease out some context clues to make it clearer what to do next time.

First, read the question for completeness and clarity. Is it clear? What is it asking? As it turns out, this question has an object and a vague description of some other object they want to create, but they want to inflate this one with a Scanner.

Hm. Not sure I see this being clear or complete; the extra class acts almost like a red herring.

At this point, I'm tempted to downvote, then go to the original question to ask clarifying questions. Or, I'd be interested in finding a suitable duplicate question for it, as asking for help with Scanner and placing the values into an object is not uncommon.

There is definitely some action that needs to be taken here, but editing it wouldn't necessarily save the ambiguity.

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    Yes, but my point is that attempting to edit a bad question to salvage it should result in a passed test rather than a "this question has been deleted" response which (because there is no such post) would prompt someone to click "no action needed" because of the new knowledge that the question has been deleted. Oct 25, 2014 at 16:03
  • So there's my disconnect. In what way could you edit this bad question to turn it into a good question? Formatting and some grammar aside, it's all over the place.
    – Makoto
    Oct 25, 2014 at 16:05
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    I immediately saw the formatting, so my immediate action (before even finishing reading) was to click edit. I figured that I would edit the post as I read it. Assuming I made it to the bottom of the edit and didn't understand what was being asked, I would have instead flagged it. Instead, I learned that the post was deleted and thus there was nothing for me to do. I now know that I should have ignored this new knowledge as part of the way the review system is setup, but I'd prefer future reviewers to not get bitten by the same experience I just did. Oct 25, 2014 at 16:09
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    @JeremyHuddlestonSequoia Look, don't worry about one failed review audit. Nobody gets banned for that alone. The point is you learn and change your actions for next time.
    – worldofjr
    Oct 25, 2014 at 16:12
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    No, that post is not beyond redemption. It may not be worth the effort, but all of the necessary information is actually there if someone wants to re-format it, and even answer it. Oct 25, 2014 at 22:13
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    I think that this post is all about the clarity of UI in Review. It confused the reviewer and should obviously be fixed. It's stupid to punish a law-abiding user for the misleading UI. Oct 27, 2014 at 15:18
  • negative scores on accepted answers always look strange to me for some reason Oct 27, 2014 at 22:16
  • @AssortedTrailmix: Fixed. Now it's zero. Oct 27, 2014 at 22:43
  • @Deduplicator +1'd so now it's extra normal... Oct 27, 2014 at 23:41
-9

If the post has been deleted, it's a no-brainier that it's a review audit and that you should downvote and/or flag!

If it hadn't been deleted, but you couldn't edit, do you really think that "No Action" would be an appropriate review? The good news is this is what review audits are all about. Next time you should get it right. If you don't, that's why we have review bans.


To all those who are trying to tell me that No Action Needed was the right action. You should read I couldn't leave a comment on a Review Audit item which was my question on meta when this happened to me. This is not a bug because editing (or commenting) cannot resolve the problems with the post. If the post is poor (which this was) then you should downvote and/or flag - or skip the review. There's no problem with attempting to edit or comment, but you should ALSO downvote and/or flag as appropriate.

Nevertheless, failing a review audit is not something a user should worry about. It's repeated failures, especially over a short period of time, that get you temporarily review banned. Learn that next time you should at least downvote (or skip the post) as No Action Needed is most certainly the wrong action.

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    Well I thought it was a no-brainer that no action was needed because the post was deleted. Oct 25, 2014 at 15:55
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    @JeremyHuddlestonSequoia If it hadn't been deleted, but you couldn't edit, do you really think that "No Action" would be an appropriate review? The good news is this is what review audits are all about. Next time you should get it right. If you don't, that's why we have review bans.
    – worldofjr
    Oct 25, 2014 at 15:58
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    Yes, if the post was deleted, there's certainly no action needed because the post was deleted (thus there's nothing actionable). My comment here is that clicking edit on a bad test post should result in a passed test. Oct 25, 2014 at 16:00
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    @JeremyHuddlestonSequoia You should ignore the fact a post has been deleted in a review. If in doubt, click skip.
    – worldofjr
    Oct 25, 2014 at 16:04
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    Yeah, I'll be aware of that for next time. I filed this post here because I believe this is a bug in the review system that should be addressed to help future reviewers who haven't tripped over quirks like this. It would be better to have a more polished system and bug reports are the way to do that. Unfortunately, it seems that the mentality here is more "accept the way it is, learn from your mistakes, and move on" which doesn't actually help new users in the future. Oct 25, 2014 at 16:06
  • @JeremyHuddlestonSequoia "Learn from your mistakes" is exactly what you should do. This is not a bug; you review the review item, not the deleted post. Taking no action on this review item is the wrong action. Just a downvote would have meant you to passed the review.
    – worldofjr
    Oct 25, 2014 at 16:10
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    Right, I understand that now, but it would be better if that was clear earlier. As it wasn't clear to me, I'd prefer "something" be done that could make it clear to future users, but that doesn't seem to be something that is of interest here, so I'll just drop it. Thanks. Oct 25, 2014 at 16:13
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    @worldofjr OK, accepting that downvoting and moving on would have been the correct response, does that mean one should never try to edit and improve a post when reviewing? If not, can you explain what made this case different? (I'm genuinely confused.)
    – Ian Goldby
    Oct 27, 2014 at 11:35
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    @worldofjr "You should ignore the fact a post has been deleted in a review" Where is this stated for new reviewers? And how can you possibly ignore that it's been deleted if the action you want to take is to edit it? Oct 27, 2014 at 12:17
  • @IanGoldby You should edit to improve the post, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't also downvote/flag where required. If you can't edit the post then 99 out of 100 times it'll be a review audit and the post has been deleted, meaning that you should probably downvote and flag anyway.
    – worldofjr
    Oct 27, 2014 at 15:35
  • @BenAaronson It's not. It's my own advice. But the point is you should attempt to review the review item, not review a non-existent deleted item (how could you review a non-existent post)?
    – worldofjr
    Oct 27, 2014 at 15:38
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    @worldofjr It's good advice for anyone who happens to read your post, but the site needs to be clearer on what a reviewer is actually supposed to do in this situation. If you're not in a "I have to play the audit game" mindset, then it seems perfectly sensible to say that there's no further action needed for a deleted post. I'm interpreting this question as "This is an unclear/misleading way for review audits to work", not "Please reiterate what I've just already learned about what the audit expects in this situation" Oct 27, 2014 at 16:36
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    @worldofjr I have to agree with Jeremy here. If a post is deleted, you don't really need to take any further action. You could possibly flag it as spam if it is really spam, but otherwise the post is where it belongs. Sure you can learn someone to click a downvote button on a deleted post, but does that make sense? Not to me. Votes on deleted posts do not register. You can condition a pigeon to type "hello world" on a keyboard, but does that combination of keys make any sense to that pigeon?
    – Sumurai8
    Oct 27, 2014 at 16:39
  • @Sumurai8 Let's be clear about this. The review item does not tell you if the post has been deleted or not. So why does anyone think they are reviewing the deleted post? You review the review item. In any case, clicking No Action Needed is the wrong response.
    – worldofjr
    Oct 27, 2014 at 16:45
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    Thanks @worldofjr, that makes sense. Try to improve it (if you feel so inclined), but if you can't then downvote it instead. I do agree that the audit help could do with improvement though. I would not have guessed that a deleted answer was a sign of a review audit. Under other circumstances you would think that if an answer is deleted then the required action has already been taken so there is no longer anything to do.
    – Ian Goldby
    Oct 28, 2014 at 9:35

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