178

I'd like to start with saying that I emailed @Shog9 back in August with the text below, because I'm not a particularly good writer, and I was hoping he'd be able to write up a nice post here. A couple weeks ago I learned that he's quite a busy person, so I'm posting myself now. That being said...

The last few weeks/months I've become increasingly concerned about the voting culture on MSO.

There are many legitimate support questions that get downvoted. If anything, it's a good thing that people find their way to Meta and ask for help on something they do not understand. I feel sad when these questions get downvoted, and you can often see the OP comment to ask why the downvotes are happening. Of course there are crap questions posted under the support tag too, that shows the OP did not even try one bit to see if a similar question exists.

To a lesser extent I see the same happening in the discussion tag. Downvotes are often justified as "I disagree with your discussion", and while that's often a fair downvote, I feel that there are also quite a bit of discussions that should be voted on based on how interesting they are. Again, people taking the time to come to Meta and discuss something before they do a certain action on the main site, and the discussion gets downvoted. Instead a disagreeing answer should be posted and voted on, in my opinion.

What do you all think of this? Is there an actual problem? If so, how can we try to "fix" it?

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  • 12
    do you have any specific posts in mind? Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 15:53
  • 48
    @SamIam I kind of expected that question. I don't have specific examples with me right now, but any somewhat regular visitor of MSO has probably noticed this. I'll try to compile a list of examples later this evening.
    – user247702
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 15:55
  • 12
    I'm not sure that can be "fixed", actually. Meta is murder, after all, and downvotes on discussions can be useful to get the community's general opinion at a glance. There is also no impact on reputation, so... Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 15:57
  • 9
    I have seen this as well. If I get some time, I will try to find some examples. And it usually isn't the questions that get 4 and 5 downvotes, it is the questions that get 1 or 2 downvotes just because someone presumably "disagreed" with a question that nothing to agree/disagree with. Those are the ones that annoy me most because it drives away someone for just being interested in understanding an aspect of the site. Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 15:58
  • 9
    Maybe meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/271842/… would be such a post if Tim hadn't posted his comment.
    – VMai
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:07
  • 23
    You're not the only one concerned about this.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:16
  • 6
    I don't find this to be a useful starting point for a discussion without a definition/examples of your subject: "legitimate support questions" that are downvoted. Given that one valid reason to downvote may be the legitimacy of the post, your entire concern hangs on what a "legitimate support question" is. It's likely that not everyone has the same definition as you; answerers therefore will dispute or agree with what they think you mean. That's not a particularly productive way to have a rational argument.
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:35
  • 2
    This could be an example meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/272602/…
    – eddie_cat
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:35
  • 2
    Pretend that's an SO question, @eddie_cat: "Here's my code, word for word (throwing a "Diphthong Exception") code Diphthong Reason: too many diphthongs in your code What the heck is wrong with this code? How is this causing an exception?!?! If I wrote: other code? Is this too many diphthongs? If I wrote other code? Is this too many diphthongs? How is this too many diphthongs? The whole point of XXX is that it is diphthongian." (Granted this is not exact.) Is this a good question? Is it well-written? Does it show research? Is it useful to the future?
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:55
  • 3
    But the tone of that post isn't reasonable, @eddie_cat. This is what I was saying in my earlier comment to Stijn: I can imagine that, but when I imagine a reasonably-toned post asking politely how to fix a question, it's not negatively-scored. That's what I remember. You remember something else. Without examples to anchor the discussion, we're talking about made-up stuff inside our own heads.
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 18:03
  • 36
    Providing proper support is a job. The likes of General Electrics operate a call center where a friendly voice doesn't mind explaining again how to cook an egg in the microwave. If support is a core business requirement then don't leave it up to unpaid volunteers to get that job done. So SE doesn't think it is, little reason for us to assume it should be more important to us when it is not to them. Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 21:01
  • 4
    Here's an example from yesterday. Bothers me too. Commented Oct 2, 2014 at 7:58
  • 2
    I'm under the impression that voting on meta is to indicate agreement or disagreement with what is said. So what is broken about that?
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 2, 2014 at 17:12
  • 8
    @HansPassant, we have support! Sounds like we're doing a lousy job letting people know where it is (in the footer of every page) and that support questions are welcome there. We don't actively push these types of questions there for 2 reasons: 1) Many of them are "can I", "should I", "is it okay", and those benefit greatly from broader community feedback.2) "Contact Us" generates no public artifact, so the information isn't potentially re-usable by others. Just to be clear, support questions can always be submitted through the "Contact Us" link.
    – Jaydles StaffMod
    Commented Oct 2, 2014 at 18:03
  • 8
    Incivility is an Escher staircase, @Paul; people have been complaining about "increasing" rudeness since the week the site came out of beta.
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 2, 2014 at 19:15

3 Answers 3

224

So I've been kinda chewing on this since your email, because... It's one of those simple questions that defies a simple answer. You're not the only person to raise this concern, of course: several respected users, moderators and even co-workers have expressed dismay upon seeing reasonable questions here that attract a pile of downvotes.

But as tempting as it is to join in the hand-wringing - and as convenient as it would be to just blow it off as the usual whining... There's a subtlety here that I think gets overlooked, and I'm still not sure of the best way to address it.

That said, here are my current thoughts on the matter:

The challenges of persuading a large, critical audience

Every week here at Stack Exchange, there are two meetings held concerning the development of the engine that powers these sites: one composed of the team of developers that actually implement changes, the other composed of the Community Team. For those of you not familiar with the latter and too lazy to follow that link, we're basically this guy:

Everyone involved on both teams has very strong opinions about how these sites should operate. So when a new feature is proposed - even very trivial changes to how some bit of the system works - it is extremely likely that the need for the change will be challenged.

Most of us have at one point or another found these meetings to be... Draining. No matter how polite the actual conversation might be, you're effectively standing up before a group of people you trust and respect while they tell you that your idea is confusing, unnecessary, and possibly detrimental to the future of the system and the company. And your job is to explain, calmly and persuasively, the details of how it would work, and why it is both necessary and beneficial. Before everyone just gets sick of talking about it and moves on.

Why is this relevant? Because these discussions are essentially meta in miniature, the lifecycle of a post here compressed into a few minutes. The same topics, the same concerns, and - if you don't come prepared - the same harsh reception. And the rules for success are the same as well:

  1. Have a problem, state it clearly. If you can't communicate the problem you're trying to solve, folks will just guess at it - or worse, assume there isn't one and you're just proposing change for the sake of change. Either of those options are bad, but the latter is particularly likely to torpedo any chance of a good reception right off the bat.

  2. Citation needed. So you think there's a problem... Got any proof? Again, you need to put to rest the tendency for folks to think you're just making something up, or blowing a tiny problem out of proportion to justify a change. Links to past discussions, to posts where the problem has occurred, to queries that illustrate the pervasiveness of the problem... All of these are helpful in convincing your audience that the problem you're solving is both real and serious in nature.

  3. The brilliant solution, in brief. Ok, now you're ready to present the solution you're hoping to see implemented. Can you summarize it? If so, you probably already put that summary in the title or introduction - but now that folks understand the problem, you should repeat it so they can start thinking about how it might actually help to address the problem. If you can't communicate the essential nature of what you're proposing in a simple sentence, you might need to put some more thought into it... If folks can't quickly grasp the essence of what you're suggesting, they're quite likely to start thinking about their own solutions to the problem instead.

  4. Show your work. How did you arrive at this solution? What led you down this path? You don't have to tell your life's story here, but at least hinting at your thought process is a good way to get your audience into a mindset able to understand your proposed solution. This is particularly helpful for radical changes, which might otherwise be rejected outright.

  5. The brilliant solution, in detail. If you've gotten this far, you're doing really well. You have their attention, their sympathy, some amount of understanding... Now you just need to show that you've thought through all of the edge cases where your solution might fall apart. Is it open to abuse? Can it scale, up and down? Is it gonna break if no one uses it? Is it gonna break if everyone uses it? What other systems does it interact with - will it affect them? How? How will we monitor this to make sure it's working? This is your last chance to fail - if answering these questions takes too much time, there's a good chance the change will be seen as overly-complex unless the potential payoff is staggeringly huge.

If this sounds like a lot of work, well... It is. Although I'll wager it's not unfamiliar to many if not most of you.

Why folks fall on their faces here on Meta

Simply put, many people do not do any of the necessary steps I outlined above. And I'm not just talking about the folks posting under - many support requests and even discussions create an implicit expectation for the existence of a problem to be solved, of the existence of a well-considered solution. Want a question re-opened? Closed? Upvoted? Downvoted? Commented on? Well... Why? Where did things go wrong? What led to that? Did you put any thought into this at all, or are you treating this site like an agony aunt where you describe your woes and hope someone will do your thinking for you?

Of course, it's usually the latter. And sometimes, we do offer a solution - because we're nice like that. But not always, and not without some irritation...

Because by posting here, you're stepping up on a very large soapbox, in the middle of a very large crowd of very busy people... And as nice as we might all be as individuals, you're taking time away from something else we were planning on doing. We'd like to know you're not wasting it.

The value of downvotes, at last

So what does this have to do with downvotes? Well, voting is how groups express their collective opinions. It's pointless to say that a given post should be scored higher; you're just expressing your individual opinion, which that score was never intended to reflect. If you think it's a good post and you've upvoted, then you've had your say - move on. The same goes for downvotes, of course - if you think a post is overrated then make sure you downvote and then quiet down - you've had your say, score-wise.

One of my biggest frustrations in the system that preceded Meta was the inability to express disagreement by voting. Without the option to downvote, folks were implicitly encouraged to post criticisms in the comments - with the result being frequent, long, and not particularly constructive arguments on every controversial idea. Don't get me wrong - laying out your objections is a good idea - but if 20 people have the same objection, they really shouldn't need to be stated 20 times to "count". Especially if "tact" isn't exactly your thing, or you prefer ad hominem arguments.

Voting on meta - which wasn't so much a design decision as it is something we got free with the system re-purposed from the main site - turns out to be a much gentler way of expressing dissatisfaction with a post, particularly in cases where it has already been answered. And of course, like the main sites, there's a well-accepted tradition of downvoting questions that show either a lack of research or are simply hopelessly unclear - again, offering an alternative to blunt criticisms in comments.

This - fast, efficient feedback - is the value of downvotes to the site, to other readers, to the voter... But there's a certain advantage to the author as well: they force introspection. Voting is anonymous; you don't know who up- or down-voted your post, and the results appear in aggregate. You cannot blame an individual; you must either blame everyone, or... yourself.

And indeed, the common tendency is for folks whose posts are downvoted to blame everyone. "Meta sucks", they say - and returning only when absolutely necessary, tend to find this initial impression reinforced. This is not unique to meta - a recent study suggests that downvoting in forums hurts the quality of future posts by the same author, potentially encouraging deviant behavior instead of constructive improvements... An effect familiar to most people who've used traditional forums.

But that's not the only option. For those of us who come here seeking genuine feedback, votes are invaluable, a way to quickly gauge the community's perception of our ideas, attitudes and presentation styles that simply isn't available otherwise. More than a few times, a downvote has reminded me to revisit a post written in haste, adding clarifications or revising my opinions after re-reading it with a more critical eye. This is not the primary purpose of voting - but for those willing to use it, they can become a valuable tool for self-improvement.

Yes, yes, many words... So is meta broken or not, and if so can we fix it?

It's not broken; it's working exactly as intended, as upsetting as that might be at times. But we might still be able to fix it...

For starters, let's start by looking at the tools already at-hand:

  • There was a FAQ sidebar on the old Meta SO, in recognition of both the Community FAQ and how frequently some questions were re-asked. I've re-enabled that here, in hope of catching a few more people before they ask common duplicates.

Going forward, there are a few additional things I think might be worth doing.

  • It's possible to customize the guidance shown on /questions/ask and the interstitial page shown to new meta users; let's think about what we can to do help folks get a bit more guidance on how to best ask questions here.

  • There are a lot of folks here who are probably a bit more protective of Meta than is strictly necessary - although it shares the same membership as Stack Overflow, privileges here are slightly different and more importantly the number of active users is much smaller; we can afford to relax a little bit. I'll give some thought to writing up some guidance there too. Update: separate discussion here: What is a meta for?

Related: A Proposal for More Constructive Downvoting on Meta: Express Disagreement by Answering the Question

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    The top half of this answer should probably be in a meta how-to-ask that is shoved in front of all users asking their first meta question, much like the SO how to ask is put in front of first time SO questions.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 18:03
  • 15
    The top half of this answer should be put into (perhaps separate sections for the question/answer pieces) of the main how to ask. That was... an amazing explanation of how to construct a post. Perhaps a few of the "change request" specifics could be removed, but the general construction was awesome. Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 23:08
  • 54
    "by posting here, you're stepping up on a very large soapbox, in the middle of a very large crowd of very busy people... And as nice as we might all be as individuals, you're taking time away from something else we were planning on doing. We'd like to know you're not wasting it." I really liked this point.
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 23:10
  • 10
    By some of the logic presented here, we should be able to downvote on comments, too. Commented Oct 2, 2014 at 5:09
  • 3
    I often wonder how things would have turned out if UserVoice had the concept of negative reputation (or down-voting). Probably not a huge impact, but you kinda have to wonder who wouldn't be here today.
    – user50049
    Commented Oct 2, 2014 at 6:55
  • 4
    Even simple bugreports get downvoted at times. I will never understand that culture that is going on here. Related reading: Why Stack Overflow’s Voting System Is Truly Harmful Alas, I do not agree with this answer. It certainly is broken. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 13:52
  • That's a good film by the way :)
    – Tasos
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:12
  • @TimPost, Shog, Do you think it would help to edit the downvote tooltip on posts that have already reached a negative score of something like -10, warning users that additional downvotes at this point are not very helpful and will likely result in negative behavior from the poster? I know many people won't read it, however I know others will, and it would be one way of getting the message out there to the community in general about the official SE position on excessive downvotes.
    – Rachel
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 15:55
  • 1
    I think that would be treating a symptom, @Rachel - if a post hits -10, there's a bigger problem underlying that. We could have a pop-up that explains how to help beleaguered askers though - more discussion on that in the answers here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/240440/what-is-a-meta-for
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 16:00
  • 6
    It's not broken...[b]ut we might still be able to fix it - but if it ain't broke why are you suggesting it needs fixin'? There are a lot of folks here who are probably a bit more protective of Meta than is strictly necessary - well that's the understatement of the year. The truth is the geeks will eventually be here alone playing "What tag can we burninate next?" Commented Oct 17, 2014 at 16:22
  • This should be automatically linked whenever a meta question reaches 5 downvotes.
    – enderland
    Commented Jan 13, 2016 at 17:35
  • 7
    No one's ever gonna read all this, @enderland. I guarantee you, most of the votes here are for the picture at the top.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2016 at 18:00
  • 1
    @Shog9 I'm an optimist, what can I say..
    – enderland
    Commented Jan 13, 2016 at 18:40
  • 1
    I tried, got stuck 75% of the way through. Very very nice post from what I read. It almost doesn't belong here, as this is a life skill.
    – J Atkin
    Commented Jan 15, 2016 at 2:59
  • 1
    @Shog9 Is it possible to do one more +1 for ...And your job is to explain, calmly and persuasively...
    – Xameer
    Commented Jan 25, 2016 at 14:30
27

Tossing together a search of negatively scored questions tagged support in recent time: [support] is:question score:-20..-1 created:2014-07..2014-10 there are indeed a number of them.

Many of them are lack of research questions "What does OP stand for?" and there are many of the "why am I post banned" that apparently didn't read the message.

In my cursory glance, there are some support questions that are mistagged (and even on the wrong site). There's one about "close votes" asking if its close or close as a translation question (better suited for ELL?), retag requests that people disagree with.

The more outstandingly negative ones are things like feature requests for search for skill level that was tagged with support, a question about a post getting deleted and a NSFW domain name, asking where to ask about naming a C++ class (asking if it is for the Stack Exchange sites P.SE or Code Review), unable to bounty a question because its on hold, why was a given answer (plagiarized) deleted?

All in all, of the rather significantly negatively-voted questions, many of them are questions that would either be found with a search, someone complaining about something, asking why a particular post was closed/deleted, or mistagged feature/discussions.


Let's look at some examples brought up in comments and look into why people might have reacted with downvotes to them:

  • Deleted answer, don't understand why

    In this case, a person was asking about why their answer was deleted. The majority of the answers in recent times were publicizing a particular GitHub repository that the OP was a contributor to. The community tends to take a rather harsh view of spam, and people asking about why their posts that were interpreted as spam also get this treatment.

  • Question on-hold as "off topic", asking for research

    Recommendation questions also suffer from this guilt by association. Such questions appear to have skipped over the tour and help center and asked a question that was a library shopping question. If the OP had read the help center it would clearly have been understood before hand. Such downvotes are as old as the Internet (though not always with votes) for people not reading the FAQ in a community before posting.

  • Can I crosspost to stackoverflow a question that was barely seen on DBA?

    Likely, the downvotes were answering the question in the title. Can you? No. The community is expressing its disagreement with the premise that reposting something that was not seen on some other Stack Exchange site is acceptable.

  • What is wrong with this question about asking for the proper HTML tag for a given type of content?

    This post reads more like a rant about closing than a question of how to improve:

    What the heck is wrong with this post? How is this opinion based?!?! If I asked: What is the most correct tag for a paragraph? Is this opinion based?

    Such argumentative language sets one up for having the post understood as a rant rather than an attempt to improve the question. A reading of it can easily be "I have this question, I think it should be open, you all are wrong." and garnered votes in agreement or disagreement with such a reading. If the post was written in a way that used fewer multiple punctuation marks and emotional language it might not have been downvoted. Further realize that the OP has had a number of other questions in the past 24h that are scored -19, -12, and -29 as of this writing including one titled "I think Stack Overflow sucks and I want to complain about it. What is the proper way of doing this?" Such recent notoriety may lead to downvotes meaning "quit wasting our time with your rants".

Note that all of the above posts are tagged as discussion, rather than support.

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    Having a hard time finding reasons not to downvote any of those examples :/
    – user1228
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:19
  • 6
    @Will there's a reason I didn't link them beyond the search... meta effect on meta?
    – user289086
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:20
  • 6
    THIS! At the end of the day, crap is still crap and should neither be ignored nor encouraged no matter what. I concur with the bulk of the downvotes being cast.
    – Geeky Guy
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:31
  • Let's not forget though that your search will not take deleted questions into account and many of these border-line questions that I am referring to may have been deleted by the author because they were unfamiliar enough with the site to not know. I have no evidence that they were though. Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:31
  • 2
    @psubsee2003 for a down voted question to get deleted it would also have to be closed. If it was closed as a dup, it was likely down voted for lack of (re)searching. If it was not closed as a dup, it is a question of if it should even have been asked on meta in the first place.
    – user289086
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:34
  • 2
    @MichaelT not if the OP deleted it. Yes lack of research is certainly a valid reason to downvote any question. I do that myself. But there is still support questions that aren't duplicates and are not always the easiest to research, or are about getting feedback specific question or specific review. Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:40
  • @psubsee2003 those are very difficult to track down. Self deletes don't show up in the 10k tools for recently deleted. You would need to probably ask SE for such examples of self deleted negative scored posts (and a 10k view to it?) and see if they were justifiably down voted for some reason.
    – user289086
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:47
  • 1
    @MichaelT I know and I wasn't asking you to look. I was only mentioning that to point out a deleted question will not be there. Maybe I am missing the point of your answer, but you seem to be suggesting that there may not be a voting culture problem because most of the downvoted support questions are justified and I was just offering a possible explanation as to why I don't necessarily think this is a complete picture of what Stijn is talking about. Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 16:51
  • 1
    It's exceedingly rare in my recollection for an asker to delete a question on Meta before it gets closed, @psubsee2003.
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:22
  • 1
    I think the most annoying cases are where the OP asks specifically what was wrong with something he/she did and how to improve next time. Sometimes they get downvoted even when they demonstrate that they have searched for an answer already. When I see these sorts of specific-question questions downvoted I, too, feel like we are undermining the purpose of the Meta site. These people are asking how to improve, what's to disagree with about that?
    – eddie_cat
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:34
  • 3
    @eddie_cat some examples would be helpful. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but specific examples would be useful in identifying where the process of meta voting either broke, or helping people try to write better meta posts. Note also that many times the tone of the question is getting down voted. "What the heck is wrong with this post? How is this opinion based?!?!?!" doesn't set the atmosphere for trying to be constructive in answers or up votes. I must also point out that your example in the question is tagged discussion, not support.
    – user289086
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:36
  • 1
    Here are some examples I found with a quick look at the past several pages of Meta -- meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/272333/…, meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/272073/…, meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/271906/…, meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/272602/… IMO none of these really present anything to "disagree" with
    – eddie_cat
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:44
  • I wasn't really meaning to only present "support" questions, as I think the discussion ones apply here as well.
    – eddie_cat
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 17:46
  • 2
    Good examples, @eddie_cat; thanks for finding those.
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 18:06
  • 1
    @eddie_cat edited with my understanding of those down votes.
    – user289086
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 18:10
4

I posted this as a comment in a question elsewhere on Meta.SO, and it got a fair number of upvotes, so I'm repeating/expanding it here.

This is a side-effect of up/downvotes not affecting reputation on per-site Metas, which gives different meaning to the score on a Meta question.

Downvotes on a question on Meta often mean "I disagree with your point of view", not "This is a bad question" as they're supposed to on the main site.

Checking your profile, it looks like you spend almost all your time on StackOverflow, Meta.SO, and Meta.SE - so you might not have seen this behavior prior to the Meta.SO and Meta.SE split.

Before the split, when Meta.SO did have its own reputation system independent of SO, it did not exhibit this behavior. Now, however, users are simply acting more and more like they would on a regular site-specific Meta.

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  • 2
    What do you mean it didn't exhibit this behavior? I see very few differences in voting habits since the split.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:32
  • @Servy It wasn't nearly as pronounced as it is now, and my expectation is that it'll get even moreso as time goes on. It mostly happens to the questions that, read like like the asker is already skewed towards a certain opinion
    – Izkata
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:34
  • 3
    As a very active meta user both before and after the split, I've seen very few changes at all (with respect to this behavior), and wouldn't expect to see much changing going forward. People were bringing up this exact issue regularly long before the split. It's nothing new, or even particularly exaggerated.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:39
  • 5
    I think the key point emphasized here is that voting is different on meta. Rather than strict shows research or not, you can voice your approval or disapproval regardless of how well the question is structured, articulated or researched.
    – crthompson
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 18:33
  • The downvotes are because people disagree with your point of view ;p
    – Rosenthal
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 20:32
  • 1
    @Neo It's currently +2/-4; some people agree. And you can't downvote a comment, like the one I mention at the start, so it's not like I was expecting everyone to agree
    – Izkata
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 23:13
  • @Izkata, I upvoted your answer. It's brave of you to highlight that SO has a problem. Look how you are losing reputation just for expressing your correct opinion.
    – Rosenthal
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 23:30
  • 4
    @Neo Except I'm not losing any reputation. That's my point; people act differently on per-site Metas because of that difference in design.
    – Izkata
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 23:39
  • Yes, totally agree with you - votes on meta are cheap and flow freely. So I quite freely gave you +1 unicorn points, and took -1 away from the OP because I don't see his issue as being a problem on meta. Commented Oct 4, 2014 at 14:11

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