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Once in a while I stumble on an answer that has a mini-rant at the top, often as the result of an anonymous down-vote. Sometimes these rants are just a sentence, but other times they stretch to a paragraph or two, sometimes even with formatting (bolded and italicized sections).

Personally I think they don't belong, but should I take it upon myself to remove the rants? Should I flag the answer? Leave a comment about the inappropriateness? Just do nothing?

Here's an example of such a rant, apparently added after there was a downvote or two (linking to a revision, in case it has been removed in the latest version):

https://stackoverflow.com/revisions/26111541/4:

[-1]-ed?

Tell the Community why?

all Keen DownVoter-s are welcome, however please do keep StackOverflow Netiquette which promotes cooperative style of work here -- so kindly express your reason ( yes, state an _argument_, post your improvement and add facts behind an opinion that you down-voted for ). Un-argumented downvoting is a poor practice in highly educated society, that StackOverflow Community strives to be. Thanks for your kind consideration.

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    The formatting in that answer makes my head hurt. Should you edit the rant out, don't forget to also sanitize that. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 14:46
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    It's noise and pointless for the question. Remove it. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 14:46
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    @user3666197: We provide a commenting system to give people a place to express themselves this way. Editorializing doesn't belong in questions or answers.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 15:46
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    @RobertHarvey: Expressing opinions (Editorializing) in answers is fine if it is about the question. The problem here is the commentary on the stackoverflow platform/community ("Metatorializing" ?), which doesn't answer the technical question.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 18:01
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    "We provide a commenting system to give people a place to express themselves this way." Yes. And then you silently delete those expressions later.
    – Wayne
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 20:33
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    I don't think this rant is a rant. It's quite friendly and constructive. By content, it should be a comment. That said, I've seen a couple of Q&A's on Meta, sometimes even by mods, where people were advised not to add a downvote reason because of the risk of revenge downvotes. Maybe if the community as a whole would encourage giving a downvote reason and stand up against revenge downvotes, rants like this would be less common in the first place.
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 13:10
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    @GolezTrol: My use of "rant" shouldn't be taken too literally. Maybe I should have used the word "editorial" or "meta-comment" or something. I attached the prefix "mini-" to imply it's not a full-on rant. I chose "rant" since part of the definition of that word relates to speaking passionately about a subject. While I might have been able to choose a better word, it seems that most people knew what I was getting at. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 13:53

7 Answers 7

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Yes, it should be edited out with a polite explanation as to why you edited it. It may get rolled back by the author but it certainly is noise.

As far as flagging, I'm not sure what reason you would flag it for. And it should be initially handled by the community through edits/comments before involving mods...those folks are overworked as it is, I'm sure. If you edit it out and it gets rolled back then I think a flag explaining that there is noise in the answer and muddies up the answer for future visitors then that would be appropriate.

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  • @simo.379209 I'm glad it worked out for you. Linking to this, or any relevant meta post, can help. But the most important thing is that you explained why you made the change. If you don't, then reviewers are likely to squash some quality edits if they miss the reason for the edit. Kudos!
    – codeMagic
    Commented Oct 1, 2014 at 23:21
  • I guess the only qualifier is that if the "rant" is actually substantive to the question, perhaps cutting it out altogether is less effective than rewriting that part of the question, no? Or is that where down voting comes in? I dunno I just think that if there are answers and the question has some substance that others can derive, then surely that is to be valued and therefore editing the text is more of an effective "soft" force... but maybe that is just impractical and people should learn to communicate more effectively and spare the emotive frustration for a colleague who gets the context.
    – Benjamin R
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 1:36
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The cited "rant" reads as follows:

[-1]-ed?

Tell the Community why?

all Keen DownVoter-s are welcome, however please do keep StackOverflow Netiquette which promotes cooperative style of work here -- so kindly express your reason ( yes, state an _argument_, post your improvement and add facts behind an opinion that you down-voted for ). Un-argumented downvoting is a poor practive in highly educated society, that StackOverflow Community strives to be. Thanks for your kind consideration.

This kind of material does not belong in either questions or answers, it belongs in comments (if at all).

I would support the editing out of such material and (if you're so inclined) a brief explanation to the poster why it doesn't belong there. The why is simply that it's not a valid part of a question or answer.

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Discussion of the Stack Overflow voting system, platform limitations, policies, and community culture are off-topic on Stack Overflow. They belong here on Meta. Whether it is a rant or not doesn't really enter into it.

A polite request for constructive criticism, after being criticized without explanation, can go in the comments. Constructive criticism of answers is technically relevant. And such a comment can come from either the post author or any interested user. So when you edit that stuff out of the answer (which you should, because it does not address the topic of the question in any way), you should consider also adding your own comment addressed to the downvoter, suggesting that they provide the post author some advice on how to improve.

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    How do you address a comment to the down-voter? I guess you mean something like "hey! Down-voter!"? While I almost always provide comments when I down-vote, those times that I don't I rarely, if ever, return to read additional comments. I suspect those that down-vote without commenting are even less likely to return just to read comments. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 18:38
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    @Bryan: Well, I wouldn't! use! the exclamation marks! Something more like. "Downvoter, I'm not seeing anything wrong with this answer. If you would share the flaw you found, it would help the rest of us understand and might even lead to a corrected answer."
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 20:08
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An answer should solely be an answer to the question and should only have technical information/facts/commentary/opinion(if appropriate) etc.

For everything else, you have few options:

  • Use comment section - Politely ask (Usually someone will explain what is or what could wrong if not the downvoter).

  • Meta - If you believe something is wrong with system and it could be fixed Or if you want to ask community's advice.

  • Flag it to a Mod - if you have reasonable idea about someone who's targeting you or any other serious issues.

On comment-when-downvoting:

Promoting people to comment (on downvote) is never going to work on SO. You know why? Many people take it quite personally and immediately go over your old posts and downvote them, nit-pick your future regularly, etc. So either you have to be prepared for this & grow a thick skin (like many already do) or downvote anonymously. My personal policy is: comment if the issue is minor or easily fixable (without downvote); Downvote if it's outright wrong (rarely comment).

In fact, I prefer to be downvoted anonymously (in case something is wrong in my answer, of course;-)

Because:

  • It helps me figure out the problem myself (most of times) and work out where my thought process/learning need to improve. Basically finding out things myself is what I enjoy and I take that downvote in good faith and say to myself: Something is wrong -- Go figure.

  • It doesn't remind of that downvote the next time I interact with that person and make it awkward especially when it's somewhat a subjective downvote.

  • On the (few) occasions where I can't figure it out, I simply put a comment: Reason for downvote? ...and someone will explain how crap my answer was ;-)

  • On the occasions I feel nothing is wrong in my answer and nobody explains why, someone upvotes me to compensate (and inflates my rep!).

Just as I explained mine above, different people have different perspective on downvote-comment issue. I believe the present system (for downvote-comment) is the best without discouraging people to downvote and yet gives the option to comment when downvoting if they like to do so.

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I don't mind it - sometimes they make good points in their rants (although not in the one linked), perhaps HTML5? <rant>Why I hate your downvote</rant> would be better?

Arguments are basically well-defined rants. I don't see it as a major problem, and if the rant is a major or threatening, then it is a problem. The one linked to is just too verbose and not well done.

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    The problem is that they don't belong in answers (or questions) on the main site. Something like that is why meta exists (though, it wouldn't get a good reaction here either). It draws attention away from the answer and that is why it is considered "noise".
    – codeMagic
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:14
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    people are humans and if they want to leave a short rant about what other people think, they should. Like everything, if it is a poorly written rant, I think it should be handled.
    – timpone
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:16
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    It's about using the right "tool" for the job. Again, the reason we have comments and meta. A question box is for questions, an answer box for answers, comments for clarification on a post, and meta to discuss the workings of SO.
    – codeMagic
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:19
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    @codeMagic I think you're just wrong. I think if someone is frustrated they should feel free to rant. Obviously, if it goes overboard, it gets edited and further downvoted - all those tools are in place. The anonymous downvoting I think is a good idea esp for new users. If a user gets downvoted a lot, leaves a rant, and somebody points out the reason it's bad, then they are wiser. If you add insult to injury by suppressing their opinions / concerns / rants - they just become more frustrated.
    – timpone
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:28
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    And that's fine. You are free to think I'm wrong as I feel the same towards your position, in part. I agree they should be able to "rant" constructively I just think, like everything, there's a place for it. That place is here. No one is being suppressed at all...just being told of the correct venue for it.
    – codeMagic
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:32
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    honestly, we might very well agree. Sometimes, I think mods on SO are a too aggressive with something that they don't see as ONLY part of the question. I think, in general, the SO community should have a more open mind to allowing people to say what they feel. I cannot tell you how many times I have dealt with extremely intelligent people who have ranted. Many times their rants are correct... I feel that bad rants can be taken care of with current tools.... just the <rant> tag
    – timpone
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 17:39
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I welcome a reality where someone, who just burnt a full day on a seemingly simple problem, can vent a little about it. It provides a perspective of what the world looked like to them at that moment in time and reminds real people that they may have unintentionally put someone through hell.

Selfishly speaking, letting someone be free to rant brings me more happiness than the guilt of controlling and censoring them.

And if it becomes a policy to ban rants, then over time, people just become blind to anger and groups get divided. It’s like the Seinfeld episode "The Serenity Now" where George's dad tries to hold in his emotions.

So removing a rant directly would be pretty offensive. Adding a temporary comment requesting an edit by the poster might be a better strategy.

So bring on the downvotes from people who want to interact with soulless entities!! <<-- rant

Bring on the ups if empathy and compassion can exist in a technical world.

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    The quoted piece is not so much bad for being a rant -- it's actually quite calm -- as for being utterly off-topic.
    – jscs
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 18:49
  • Agree. I tried to address the headline question and took the example to be one of many rant styles up on the censoring block.
    – crokusek
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 18:57
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    I am okay with the point of view you offer, I just don't share it. While the "state of mind" of a user can be an important thing, FOR HIM, it has NOTHING to offer to the next guy coming in to read about a similar problem. If I can't figure out how to use a certain framework and look at a solution on SO, I don't want to read what the guy felt... I'm probably feeling the same as him already, I just want to find what my issue is
    – Patrice
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 20:51
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    Would you want to read an article on Wikipedia and in the middle of it there is a rant that has nothing to do with the subject in question, complaining about how other editors on the site have rolled back edits on the article? Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 20:57
  • @jullday, At least for me, sometimes reading a rant can feel like sharing a virtual beer (and thus feeling overall better and hopefully more positive going forward with any new comments).
    – crokusek
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 22:26
  • @DavidConrad. Agree. But SO does not seem like Wikipedia for the C# site at least. Most questioners are here essentially because they have some problem. Depending on the pain of the problem it could affect their tone/rantiness. It's like putting duct tape over their mouth after they just came from being tortured.
    – crokusek
    Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 22:44
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    This was about a rant in an answer, not in a question, but SO is supposed to be a collection of questions and answers. Will someone who comes here via Google two years later want to read a rant as part of a question or answer, or just find the solution to their problem? That is what SO is trying to build. Commented Sep 30, 2014 at 22:47
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No one gives you the right to remove or modify someone else's answer. Even if you do not like how it was worded. If you find the topic offensive, then it should be removed but, a mini-rant is not an offense. Otherwise create your own answer and be careful that you do not mini-rant yourself. Worry about yourself and not about others.

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