-17

I recently ran across a post in which the OP asked a very open-ended question. Essentially, he said, I have created some applications in C#, what's the next best thing to learn (within C#).

A user named Servy pointed out that it is an open-ended question, but I do not like his reasoning that this does not belong anywhere on the Stack Exchange network. The OP is essentially asking a more narrow question.

His question is...

So far I have made a notepad like project, a calculator, a conversion program, and an inventory system that just uses txt files to hold the data. Is learning a database the next step I should take.

Is Servy right?

17
  • 19
    Servy is right. Anyway, if you agree that the question is bad, why do you think it belongs on the network? If you start giving answers to bad questions because they have "good intentions", you get more bad questions. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:03
  • 5
    What if everyone who has been programming for three months asked a similar question? How useful would that be to everyone else? Servy is right. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:13
  • 1
    @BilltheLizard Is that not a separate issue. That would be a duplicate question... Sep 24, 2014 at 16:14
  • @DavidRobinson I don't agree it is a "bad" question. On a side note, its ironic this questioin got -4. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:15
  • 1
    @CalvinSmith Then why did you title this "Good intent bad question"? Sep 24, 2014 at 16:15
  • 1
    (Incidentally, votes on Meta Stack Overflow can be used to represent disagreement: people are indicating disagree with your point of view about whether these questions should be allowed). Sep 24, 2014 at 16:16
  • 11
    No, they wouldn't be duplicates. Everyone takes a different path to learn programming. Everyone would ask a unique question that was only useful to them at that moment. It wouldn't even be useful to them three months later, and they'd ask another similar question. None of these types of career advice or learning path questions have any lasting value to the site. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:16
  • @DavidRobinson I think it is a good question for him. It is a question I would have loved to had an answer to when I began programming. The sheer amount of information for a newbie programmer is overwhelming. He has an obvious question. I'm simply surprised SE has nowhere to ask it. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:21
  • @Servy Kind of my point. I do not understand how this question itself is not a valid question. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:23
  • 2
    Is there a definitive answer to, "Should I start looking into technology Y now? I've played with technology X and I feel like I've made good progress on it." I'm fine with the person learning and all, but in all honesty, there's nowhere on the network that this question would fit. There's too much subjectivity floating around it.
    – Makoto
    Sep 24, 2014 at 16:24
  • 4
    @CalvinSmith See David's comment. The downvotes on this question mean people don't agree with your point of view, not that this is a bad question. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:26
  • 5
    @CalvinSmith You have to think about it differently. It's not about answering question because they are there. It is about providing good answers to good questions. The reason Stack Overflow became so popular is because users know you can get good answers to their problems. The reason you got good answers is because the site attracted experts to provide those answers. Questions like that drive the experts away because they aren't interesting. Everyone likes to help, but not at the expense of the quality of the site. So a line has to be drawn somewhere on what is an acceptable question. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:26
  • @Makoto I agree with X and Y. But thats not quite the question. His question is here is what I understand about X, but this next step in X seems huge. Is it right. And while I do understand it is not a "good" question, it certainly is not "bad" Sep 24, 2014 at 16:27
  • @psubsee2003 Sure, but is a c# question tagged c#, about c#, not a c# question? Sep 24, 2014 at 16:28
  • 4
    @CalvinSmith It's a question that's not appropriate for this site. There are plenty of questions that are perfectly sensible questions elsewhere that aren't acceptable questions here.
    – Servy
    Sep 24, 2014 at 16:34

1 Answer 1

20

'Ello. You may know me from such hits as Open letter to students with homework problems and Where to start? from Programmers.SE.

Today, I'm here to talk to you about discussions. Much of this is an abbreviated recap of On discussions and why they don't make good questions, but as one may note with the links there, these are over on Programmers.SE (that place people keep saying 'ask over there' when they think that it's too soft of a question for Stack Overflow).


Stack Exchange is not a forum

The branding of Stack Exchange is that of a Q&A site. You've got a problem, you get an answer. What's more, you get the right answer. Questions that don't have right answers don't fit into that branding.

From the tour page:

This site is all about getting answers. It's not a discussion forum. There's no chit-chat. Just questions... and answers.

If you are asking something that needs to be discussed, it's not a good question.

On discussions

Discussions are about back and forth communication. Often dense communication. The OP of the question that is there is asking rapid fire questions that one would ask of a mentor. Someone to sit down with and learn from over a cup of coffee or a code review. Those are not good questions for Stack Exchange.

Incidentally, SE has intentionally made it difficult to have these discussions to try to keep posts on topic with its branding and not be a forum. There are discussion sites that try to do this better, or as best as it can be done. You can go over to Discourse and see Jeff's other attempt at making a forum - but it's not a Q&A site.

Where can you discuss things then?

You can go to chat. There are a plethora of chat rooms in Stack Overflow and even more out there in the rest of the Stack Exchange network.

You can also go somewhere else. There are many sites that are designed to be able to handle the conversations. Reddit, Hacker News, and Slashdot are three that come to mind immediately.

So why is it a big deal?

The problem with discussions is that discussions can easily overwhelm the rest of the site. Unlike objective questions that have answers (and if asked again can be directed to the previous one asked that will answer this one too), discussions of the same topic are infinite in their variety based on the participants.

Stack Exchange is based on the premise that good questions and answers attract and retain the experts that answer them and that people come to find answers. The quality that Stack Exchange provides is unique within the Internet so far (quite a few clones, but none as compelling).

Furthermore, discussions tend to drive away experts. Not always, but it's the trend. This has been seen many times since the days of Usenet news... experts really don't want to spend their time arguing with someone who doesn't understand the topic at hand when they want to just answer a question... and if they do, there are ways to have that discussion via other channels.

This is not to say that there are not experts who do enjoy discussions... and that Stack Exchange isn't exactly working for them. This is unfortunate, but it does not mean that discussions need to be allowed or that Stack Exchange needs to change.

What about that Programmers.StackExchange place?

Originally, NotProgrammingRelated.SE (quite a mouthful) was intended as a place for these questions. It didn't work out. That part about the experts and infinite variety. Yes, it can be enjoyable... but no, it doesn't fit within the model that SE has for its system and the way things work on Stack Exchange.

I'd suggest giving How can I encourage Stack Overflow to rein in the 'subjective' vigilantes? a read - in particular the answer that Yannis gives that provides a history of Programmers.SE.

Stack Exchange tried to find a place for these questions. It didn't work. At least not on the Stack Exchange network.

If you are interested in what Programmers.SE has to offer, please look at the Help Center - What topics can I ask about here? page on P.SE. Note that we try to focus on the design and software engineering aspect of the industry - not the "what should I do next" or "career" aspect (which are two of the ones that people often mistakenly suggest to repost on P.SE from SO).

Related reading and links from above:

11
  • See. This line keeps jumping out at me. I want to learn how to bake a cake? Where should I start?. That wasnt the question. The question was, Now that I can bake a cake, would baking wedding cakes or baking multi level cakes be the next skill to learn. I get that its not a good question, I just don't think the questioner should be shunned away. It is close to a good question. Sep 24, 2014 at 16:39
  • 5
    @CalvinSmith: See, we believe that a bad question is... Well, a bad question. Bad questions reduce the signal to noise ratio. If your premise is that bad questions are bad, but the OP's intention is good therefore the question should be allowed, then why bother culling questions at all? Sep 24, 2014 at 16:42
  • 2
    Imagine walking a user through the entire process of baking a cake, one question at a time. Now imagine bamboo shoots under your fingernails. Is there any difference? Sep 24, 2014 at 16:45
  • 6
    @CalvinSmith do you want to go into making wedding cakes (a commercial enterprise) or are you more interested in keeping this for doing fancy cakes for your kids next birthday? Note that this is career advice - it depends on you and what you want to do. The next person coming to read it won't be you and thus the answer that you got for your situation will not be useful and it will need to be asked again, and again, and again - once for each person with their own desires and background. That makes it a poor fit for the Q&A format.
    – user289086
    Sep 24, 2014 at 16:45
  • @RobertHarvey Bamboo probably hurts less Sep 24, 2014 at 17:00
  • 5
    I just don't think the questioner should be shunned away I think you're treating the closing of the question as though it's a personal attack on the asker, which isn't the right attitude. Who's being "shunned"? If he comes back with a good question he's welcome. Sep 24, 2014 at 17:08
  • 2
    @CalvinSmith it is an important skill to realize that the vast majority of the time here, people vote on questions and answers - not other people. Its not "you are a bad person" or even "this is a bad question" but rather "the question you are asking does not fit into the model that Stack Exchange provides" - it may be that it is poorly asked, and the OP needs to work on the skills around clearly stating the problem. It may be that its a poll and slant.co may be a better fit, or anecdotes from quora. People are not shunning anyone with down votes.
    – user289086
    Sep 24, 2014 at 20:01
  • Who is to say what is a good question and what is bad. I would rather have the question that asks 'where do I go to learn X better' than 'give me the answer to X'. The former encourages self-learning and teaches how to research to find solutions on your own. The latter teaches you how to be a leech who may never learn to think critically about new problems. The experts had to learn from somewhere. If we want more experts, we must expose the path we took to get to where we are now.
    – josiah
    Nov 5, 2014 at 20:41
  • 1
    @Josiah at no point have I said that a question is bad. I have often stated that certain questions don't fit within the format of the Q&A structure that StackExchange has set up and uses. A question of "where do I go to learn X better" is one that doesn't fit this format. At its heart, it is a poll for places to go that have multiple possible equally valid answers and with the internet as it is there is constantly new material out there. If you want to poll, there are other sites out there that are better set up for this type of question. ...
    – user289086
    Nov 5, 2014 at 20:57
  • 1
    ... What we do want to encourage is questions that have good answers. Answers like 'try coursera' or 'I found this blog useful' are not good answers, and questions that encourage such answers are similarly problematic. The goal of SE is to be able to have a question and cut through all of the noise that forums have to get the answer (related: Real Questions Have Answers). Questions that are polls work against that and add noise to the system that makes it that much harder to find the answer.
    – user289086
    Nov 5, 2014 at 20:59
  • ^ I'll subscribe to that logic.
    – josiah
    Nov 5, 2014 at 21:18

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .