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I've come over this question

enter image description here

and noticed that the user tries to promote links to their main site in almost each and every question, answer or comment they've posted.

I already downvoted and flagged the obvious posts.
For me it looks like the user is just abusing their SO account, for spamming the site to get more attraction to their main site.

Even worse, the linked site just asks for contribution in form of money.

What should we do here? I don't just want to downvote all of the questions/answers of the user, where the link appears (these are likely going to be reversed by the serial downvoting detection anyway).

UPDATE:
That lead me to a now:

Couldn't the SE engine detect frequent appearance of particular links to (commercial or not) off-sites in questions, answers or even comments of a user automatically, and escalate for moderator attention?

DISCLAIMER:
I'm fine with a main site link (commercial or not), given at a user's profile. Or even if it's added to a post when it really applies to be useful for the context.

other users come to my mind, where I've seen similar behavior and I disliked it.

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  • 1
    Have you considered delete votes on some of the less... useful... questions and self answers? If the questions aren't helpful to the next visitor, they are of dubious use. Previously the close and deletes would likely have garnered a question ban until the quality of the contributions though that looks to be changing.
    – user289086
    Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 2:17
  • @MichaelT I think I've applied all of the close, down and delete votes/flags as much as I could. The thing in question is the behavioral pattern of the user, trying to make links to their site prominent (which is even less than unuseful here), and what should be done with that account now. Question ban will certainly apply, but I'm afraid, that won't really address the main problem, such it could be sunk to the user's understanding. Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 2:31
  • 1
    Just as a note for lower rep user's: The linked question is meanwhile deleted, and you may not able to see it. Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 3:18
  • I suspect bringing it to attention on Meta will soon address this particular user :)
    – Jane S
    Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 3:41
  • 4
    @JaneS "I suspect bringing it to attention" That was partially intentional. But my question is really about hitting generic cases. Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 3:44
  • Can you make a case that this is actually a problem that isn't being handled by existing flagging/moderation? My feeling is that it would be a decidedly non-trivial thing to implement (there's really no way to programmatically determine "this site is commercial"; at best you could index domains linked by each account and flag for investigation cases where a domain is linked more than n time by only a single account).
    – nobody
    Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 3:48
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    @AndrewMedico ... and even if the site was commercial, the link might still be a valid reference: Who doubts for example the MS sites (including MSDN) are commercial? Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 9:22
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    Not so sure I see it, spammers are usually a lot more relentless about it. They certainly don't let links go dead like that. This just looks like an inept programmer that doesn't know how to ask questions properly. Thinking it is a good idea to link to a web page with a code dump is a standard mistake. Just flag a moderator, they can see a lot more than we do. Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 10:51
  • I agree that this would definitely be useful but it could be somewhat difficult to keep track of the 'useful' websites often linked and the 'useless' websites often posted. E.g. ideone.com is often linked and so are the official documentations from multiple sources (they might appear many times in one user's answers). Right now I'm not sure how this could be effectively addressed
    – Marco A.
    Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 18:38
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    @MarcoA. We could wait triggering such a mechanism at least for a certain number of posts of a user were flagged as spam. But mentioning ideone.com is a good point (it's difficult to distinguish, yes). Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 18:57
  • 3
    Another related discussion is here: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/271631/2615940. That discussion emphasises flagging users that post the same link regularly, which I really like, because it avoids the complexities of trying to programmatically differentiate between useful and non-useful links, but would still catch a good portion of spam cases.
    – skrrgwasme
    Commented Sep 18, 2014 at 23:57
  • @SLawson At least I don't think it's necessary, to distinguish between useful and non-useful links programmatically, as long such escalation level is triggered from a certain number of spam/link only flags referring to the same final URL. Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 0:07
  • @πάνταῥεῖ That's actually a great idea though, and it's being taken into serious consideration: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/271631/… . I would love to see this implemented
    – Marco A.
    Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 3:48
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    Did you read the first sentence of your own link? "Electronic spamming is the use of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited messages (spam), especially advertising, indiscriminately" describes this situation just fine. The user was indiscriminately promoting their own site (and given the prominent PayPal donate button, possibly trying to profit from it).
    – nobody
    Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 14:45
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    @AndrewMedico: I have no idea what you are talking about. I see only a cpp code link in here. Which could be very useful. If we start to bash about such actions, I think this place is unsustainable in the long-term (or short?). I honestly hope (and somewhat know) that the developers will not waste any time on this IMHO useless feature request (sorry). As the practice shows, this kind of bad post burns in no time. I am not sure why there needs to be some fuss made about it wasting everyone's time. Furthermore, SO is full of advertisements, so it cannot be linked from other sites either? Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 17:36

6 Answers 6

15

What should we do here? I don't just want to downvote all of the questions/answers of the user, where the link appears (these are likely going to be reversed by the serial downvoting detection anyway).

I think the normal channels suffice for this -- deleting, downvoting, and so on. It doesn't seem like there's much need to special-case users of a particular class if they aren't more damaging in some way.

Couldn't the SE engine detect frequent appearance of particular links to commercial off-sites in questions, answers or even comments of a user automatically, and escalate for moderator attention?

I would be very skeptical that this would work correctly.

  • Who gets to decide that a link is "commercial"? Doing it by domain may be too coarse (think, e.g., Microsoft, which hosts both MSDN reference documentation and Azure sales pitches).

  • Aren't most links in SO answers "off-site" anyway? (Wikipedia articles, references to code documentation, GitHub repositories, blog posts, et cetera.)

It's likely to fall victim to the Scunthorpe problem -- well-meaning but overzealous filtering almost always leads to disastrously high false-positive rates.

3
  • THX for a serious reaction at all! I have my doubts that this needs a feature-request at all, while not just flagging stuff as spam seems to be enough. My thoughts were, if we could have some automatic moderator escalation when a certain amount of flags, same user, same spam link occurs. Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 1:39
  • Wouldn't a simple system of "number of links to the X domain" / "number of users to link to the X domain" be enough ? I guess that an automatic flag when the ratio cross a treshold could give good results. Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 14:10
  • Ha, ha, the Scunthorpe problem. I hadn't heard of that and my parents met there -- seeing the whole thing in a new light :D. Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 14:36
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The general guideline is that all irrelevant information should be removed from the answer/question. This increases value of the content. StackOverflow is a community moderated website. If you feel that a link does not add value, consider editing the post. You have enough reputation to do it without other member's approval.

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Just flag it as spam when you see it, and flag a post with a custom note saying the user is repeatedly spamming. A quick mod message + brief suspension should shape him right up.

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    I'm not sure why anyone would think to do anything else. "Custom flag and let a mod investigate" is such a common answer to these questions. +1, sir.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 23:09
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A possible compromise: for users with a rep below, say, 30, do not display the links as links - just plain text. If a user is trolling about for a little search engine optimization, they will soon loose interest.

A higher-reputation user can edit the post and explicitly convert the links if they feel it is important.

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  • Good idea! Similar as image links are handled. Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 21:42
  • Fair idea, although it may back-fire if someone inserts a legit link to another site. Would an edit by a higher-rep user remove this limitation? Also, similar to image links -- then image links would not work anymore either, would they?
    – Jongware
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 22:43
  • Image links? Why would SE even care? Haven't seen any on SO the whole time.
    – user3458
    Commented Oct 17, 2014 at 12:01
2

Couldn't the SE engine detect frequent appearance of particular links to commercial off-sites in questions, answers or even comments of a user automatically, and escalate for moderator attention?

I disagree with John Feminella here; this seems like a good idea to me.

  • False positives won't be that high because a few primary sources contribute most links.

  • Deciding what's commercial is easy. We don't care about "accidentally" whitelisting sections of MSDN because nobody spams MSDN. Large commercial entities aren't the problem.

  • The Scunthorpe problem won't happen because

    • This doesn't filter anything; it just raises moderator attention.

    • You require several posts to the site by the same user for this even to be triggered. This only really happens benignly when people link to documentation a lot, and (unfortunately) there isn't enough documentation for that to be hard to whitelist.

On the other hand, the normal spam filtering mechanism already exists. I have yet to see more than a couple of pieces of spam on Stack Overflow, so I don't see a burning need.

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    I disagree with Veedrac. Special casing a not clear case situation is not worth our time when these things fly to the trash pretty quickly (hint: see the downvotes, for instance). Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 13:58
  • "Large commercial entities aren't the problem." - Yet.
    – Danejir
    Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 15:17
-24

I think, that before you accuse someone for posting commercial spam you should try to know if they have commercial purposes and consider if the user is a new or an experimented user.

You should try to comment the posts of those users with similar behaviour to ours giving answers like these.

In some countries with strong laws, defamation could be strong punished and you should try to be more careful accusing a person, a website, a company, an organization or a government of something that you only suppose.

On this case, I think, that you defamed us for commercial spam.

It would be very kindly of your part to give a good guide to new users like us about posting salutations and links before defamaing us.

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    How dare you insinuate that we defamed you! I'm suing you for libel! Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:27
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    I no longer can see your answers on SO but I clearly remember at least one comment on an edit that removed your link.
    – Jongware
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:27
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    There's nothing "defaming" about stating that you were posting spam under the definition this site uses for "spam." You most certainly were. If you didn't know the rules it's because you didn't read them. Just stop doing it and no one will accuse you of anything.
    – eddie_cat
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:27
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    "and consider if the user is a new or an experimented user." No. A new user is expected to have read the rules of posting just the same as an experienced user. votes should target the post, not the user making the post. Expecting us to act differently based on the user's experience goes against that guideline.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:30
  • @eddie_cat Exactly! :D
    – ncomputers
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:31
  • @ThisSuitIsBlackNot Hahaha! I know people who made it, but they lose! We won't suing anybody! We only recommend πάντα ῥεῖ to be more carefully, because sometimes people know pretty well how to use laws for their own benefit, they suing almost everyone because of almost everything. Seen from one point of view, to write a post, which had more than 1,300 views, where a new user is accused for commercial spam, could be defamation. Our suggestion is to be more kindly with new users! That's all!
    – ncomputers
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:43
  • @KevinB Thank you very much for your comment! I agree partially with what you wrote, that makes me see one think: "Either this community or some members are not what I expected that they are". They probably don't like to help others and only want to obtain a reward from others! (Reputation, points, etc.). Am I an user, who is not what you expected? Maybe my level of english is not enough to understand all the rules! It is a foreign language for me! But you can explain them to me!
    – ncomputers
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:49
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    well, the important thing to keep in mind is that this... community isn't really a community at all. A lot has been done to prevent user to user interaction as much as possible. Removing salutations and signatures from questions/answers is just one of them. Comments are there for clarification, not discussion. As far as people only wanting to help themselves, yes, those do exist, but they're usually the ones that you see answering questions, not the ones that are downvoting and voting to close. The ones that are downvoting and voting to close are the ones that are trying to improve the site.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:54
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    by 1. removing content that isn't useful to the site, and 2. teaching users that what they are doing isn't following the guidelines of the site and therefore isn't welcome or needs to be modified/improved/clarified to fit within the guidelines of this site.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:55
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    Don't get me wrong, many users answer questions to help other users, but there are many others that simply do it for rep. It's hard to draw the line between those two groups. Typically that line is irrelevant, until questions that aren't valid here get answers.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:57
  • @KevinB I agree with you. That must be done!
    – ncomputers
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 19:59
  • @ncomputers.org "We only recommend πάντα ῥεῖ to be more carefully, because sometimes people know pretty well how to use laws for their own benefit, they suing almost everyone because of almost everything." Well, I won't care about anyone trying to sue me about any of my actions on SO. There's a policy you agree, when starting to join SE such legal omissions won't apply. Also note I never explicitly stated something about "commercial", but just disclosed the fact "Even worse, the linked site just asks for contribution in form of money.", which you fairly can't deny. Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 21:38
  • @ncomputers.org Well, in my edit I see I mentioned commercial ... Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 21:45
  • @πάνταῥεῖ If you remove the commercial word to the title What to do with a user who frequently spams SO with useless links to their main (commercial) site? I would even vote up your post :D
    – ncomputers
    Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 21:55
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    @ncomputers.org Fixed the title, and some bits in the body. But I think you've got my points. Yes, this would have been easier clarified in sort of a direct communication (though you always can use the comment feature to directly address for my attention). Also as I've seen this critique about SO user categories from your side. Well, I'm of course want to increase my rep on the site, and thus answer questions. But I'm also working on sorting out off-topic questions or inappropriate answers. The latter action doesn't help to increase my rep (sometimes even the opposite), but improves quality Commented Oct 16, 2014 at 22:09

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