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This thread has existed for 5 years, has hundreds of upvotes, and I regularly go there (I use it as a portal to check standards documents when I'm not at my usual PC).

However it was closed as off-topic for "recommending an off-site resource" this week. It's true that it does recommend an off-site resource, but I would not consider it off-topic as it is a very useful addition to the knowledge base that is Stack Overflow.

Is it possible to re-open it and protect it from being marked off-topic? (Or do some people think that it should be considered off-topic and perhaps deleted?)

12
  • 10
    You probably want an "answer wiki" lock (further reading) or (much less likely) a historical lock.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 8:54
  • 10
    It seems that decision was correct, it is off-topic on stackoverflow. it should not be protected from being marked as off-topic.
    – Ajay S
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 9:07
  • 3
    I'm more concerned about the delete votes than the close ones.
    – T.C.
    Commented Aug 31, 2014 at 10:55
  • 33
    This drive for purity that some have is getting silly, this is a useful question and deleting it would be a big loss. Commented Aug 31, 2014 at 21:18
  • 7
    If it matters, I believe the question and answer pre-date a policy of disallowing these kinds of questions on SO (I think it's from very shortly after SO emerged from beta). I know that I would have found the information in this answer useful at various times because navigating the ISO/ANSI/INCITS/whatever websites can be painful. I believe the answer is useful to C/C++ programmers in general (I actually refer to it sometimes), and I think that should be enough to prevent it from being deleted. I also think the answer has been kept relatively up to date, even if not always by me. Commented Aug 31, 2014 at 22:07
  • 3
    The question is off topic, and it should be closed because otherwise people get the impression that similar questions should be asked on SO. It is not completely useless (but almost - seriously, the accepted answer is practically "search on ansi.org, and here's a trick to save a few bucks"), thus it should not be deleted. But according to the post history, that hasn't happened yet; and if someone were to delete it, you could just get it undeleted by asking meta. What would be your problem with the question being closed, as long as it is not deleted?
    – l4mpi
    Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 9:15
  • 2
    "search on ansi.org" is not practically the answer; those documents cost money, and it is not clear what to search for. The links to the CWG papers are more important (to me, anyway). The most relevant documents are all clearly listed in this answer, as opposed to say the CWG website which has hundreds of documents and you can't find what you're looking for unless you're a wizard.
    – M.M
    Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 11:09
  • 2
    @l4mpi: I have no problem with whatever is decided for this question. However, I think it's misguided to delete a question/answer from SO that is actually useful to a large number of people. I also doubt that this posting is contributing to whatever problems SO might be having with low quality questions. As far as saving a few bucks, for many people (ie., students - or me) the difference between $130 and $30 (or legitimately free) is quite significant. Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 17:36
  • 14
    As the author of this answer. stackoverflow.com/a/4653479/14065 I regularly update the answer to make sure it is up to date and still valid (even though I no longer get points for it). I think it is an invaluable resource as the standards site is a real pain to navigate. Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 19:25
  • 5
    Closing it means no new answers can be added, not that the old ones can't be edited. Is it reasonable any new answer can bring anything new that can't be done by editing one of existing wiki answers? Commented Sep 2, 2014 at 8:48
  • Note, the question was just locked. Commented Dec 17, 2014 at 16:45
  • Looks like it was locked due to Why has my flag been declined? Commented Dec 18, 2014 at 14:17

3 Answers 3

18

I think the whole premise for closing is wrong.

"Questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic for Stack Overflow as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam. Instead, describe the problem and what has been done so far to solve it." – lpapp, Athari, Donaudampfschifffreizeitfahrt, Patrick Hofman, l4mpi

So the premise is that this question can not generate good and useful answers.

Well that premise is obviously wrong in the context of this question (it may hold generally). You will note that the top two answers are not based on opinion or spam they both refer to ANSI versions of the standard and provide useful information.

I think that this is just another example of people blindly following the rules without applying context to their decisions. This question obviously provides value to users (see the total up vote counts).

4
  • 6
    The statement you are highlighting is one of the reason, not the only one.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 20:48
  • 6
    @Braiam. So educate us. What are the other things wrong. So that we can go through them one by one. Putting generic commentary like that is not useful and imho basically just trolling. If you have some specific to say then put it in writing. Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 22:12
  • 1
    My knowledge is not to be shared so lightly. Please, re-read the FAQ (now, this is trolling...).
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 22:16
  • 2
    @Braiam: I expected no less. Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 23:01
15

As a question it is poorly worded (In other words, it's not worded as a question at all), most (all?) of the answers are centered around being links to offsite resources.

This means it is prone to link rot. Yes it is useful, but it is exactly the sort of question that Stack Overflow has been trying to avoid.

A moderator may apply a historic lock to it, but it really needs people to step in and clean it up and/or keep it maintained.

I can understand that you and probably a bunch of others would hate to see those links disappear, so one possible option is to move the links into the appropriate tag wiki.

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  • 5
    The links all go to the C and C++ Standards Working Group site , and the page is updated when new standards come out. AFAIK the links are all current.
    – M.M
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 9:03
  • @MattMcNabb I've just added a bit to my answer that might help.
    – slugster
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 9:04
  • 19
    The link rot concern seems a weeeee bit overblown here, no?
    – tmyklebu
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 10:00
  • 8
    @tmyklebu now that Blogs.sun.com is dead, I am not sure that link rot concerns can be overblown. Not to mention funny cases when page stays but owners decide to change its content (broke my nose on it once or twice, that's... no fun)
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 10:55
  • 2
    @gnat: I don't think that's a reasonable argument to purge the content, though.
    – tmyklebu
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 13:52
  • 2
    @tmyklebu if you're interested in arguments to purge "content" like that, take a look at Your answer is in another castle: when is an answer not an answer? (I for one believe that in providing links to stuff Google has always been and will always be much better than Stack Overflow)
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 13:54
  • 1
    @gnat: Half-assed justifications like those on that page generally do not convince me that a hard-and-fast rule is proper. (A hard-and-fast rule may be expedient, or it may do more good than harm, but that's a different thing altogether; this sort of argument will not convince me that the rule can substitute for an intelligent person using his sense.) In any case, the pointers to standards use the organisation name and number in order to make them googlable even if the links themselves break.
    – tmyklebu
    Commented Aug 30, 2014 at 14:03
  • 4
    It is being kept up to date. Standards generally don't change too fast, with years between revisions of the standard. Commented Aug 31, 2014 at 22:12
  • 1
    @gnat: We're talking ISO here, not a commercial company. Back in 2004 or so, ISO reversed its decision to drop the Algol standard, instead moving it to "stable" state. I don't think we need to worry about C following Algol soon, but even if it does, ISO will not drop it.
    – MSalters
    Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 8:15
  • 1
    I am not trying to argue here, as most arguments against links make sense. However, there are a lot if jsfiddle answers in SO, which are also likely to get removed by their respective owner, and render entire threads useless. Perhaps, a more clever way of tracking dead links can be used, without harming useful posts?
    – stackh34p
    Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 8:39
  • 3
    A moderator may apply a historic lock to it, but it really needs people to step in and clean it up and/or keep it maintained. I do keep this answer maintained as standards are released. stackoverflow.com/a/4653479/14065 Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 19:21
  • so one possible option is to move the links into the appropriate tag wiki. There is already a link from the C++ tag wiki to this answer. Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 19:29
  • 2
    @LokiAstari To be fair this question shouldn't be exempt from the quality guidelines any more so than any other question. What do you think would happen if someone tried the same thing for another language? The tag wiki shouldn't be referencing the answer, it should be the other way round - that's what tag wikis are for.
    – slugster
    Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 20:34
  • 1
    @slugster: I don;t think anything should be except. But what I dislike is rules being applied without thinking. You should always take the context into consideration. If you slavishly follow rules without applying context you degrade the value of the site not increase it. Commented Sep 1, 2014 at 22:15
3

Bump. The question itself would now need to be updated with the C17 and C++17 standards. How do we go about it, since it is locked?

Perhaps a diamond mod can make the following changes to the question, then lock it again:

C89
C99
C11
C17
C++98
C++03
C++11
C++14
C++17

Alternatively, perhaps we could migrate this whole post into the and tag wikis respectively? That way it can be maintained without conflicting with the SO posting rules.

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  • 1
    Yeah, that's why it shouldn't be locked but deleted. BTW, just copy it. That way nobody could claim "information lost! think children!".
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 10:54
  • @Braiam No my child, I will not copy/paste a 10 pages long community wiki and dump it in the C and C++ tag wikis respectively... doing so would require significant edits and many hours of work.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 10:57
  • And that way your idea died. If nobody is willing to the work, nothing will change. I could do it, but for me Google is already a list of links, so I really don't need that kind of resources in static form.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 11:02
  • 1
    If anything should be changed about the question, it would rather be to make it ask about the standards in a way that does not need to be changed every four year, yes? Is it really useful to have a bullet list of each "release"? Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 14:01
  • 1
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier Yes it is incredibly useful, if you need to research when a certain feature was introduced. In the best of worlds, all compilers, programming books and other resources would be immediately updated each time there is a new standard. Alas, this is not how things work in practice.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 14:12
  • @Lundin Ah yes I was unclear, I'm sure it is useful to have the links in the answers, I am wondering if the static bullet list in the question are necessary, since they are somewhat repeated in the answers? Sorry if I'm thick and that's what you are saying! Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 14:17
  • 1
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier I suppose it doesn't have to be in the question and answer both. Still, someone has to edit the question no matter.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 14:21
  • On the other hand, it's not a very long thing to do for a moderator, so if one of them is opened to do it, there's no harm in it either. I'd be in favor of that to happen. Commented Aug 15, 2018 at 14:28
  • At some point, C++17 was added but C17 wasn't. I don't know why. Plus, we've now got C++20 as well.
    – AJM
    Commented May 7, 2021 at 15:01

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