How can one ask a question that is critical of the gamification community on SO with as little offense as possible? Is it even possible?
3 Answers
Even with the edits, this is rather unclear.
You want to ask about the culture here and how it came about?
Just ask.
Use facts and numbers. Tag with the discussion tag. Give examples.
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2I can tell such a discussion is unwanted to the point of angering the community. And this was just asking HOW & WHERE to ask.. Could you imagine what they'd do to me if I actually asked? If someone can't be constructively critical without invoking the wrath of the righteous, then only a fool would continue. I tried. I give up. You guys win. Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 16:47
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5@PatTrainor The problem wasn't the fact that you were asking how/where to ask. The problem was the manner in which you phrased the question. Questions critical of SO are perfectly acceptable here, as long as they are well-formed questions.– awkspCommented Jul 11, 2014 at 16:49
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2@PatTrainor it is OK to be critical of Stack Overflow, but you must be fair in your criticism. Do not rant. Be open-minded, and open to having an actual discussion about issues.– user456814Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 16:49
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9And try to use neutral terminology with a constructive tone. Calling people (or groups of people) names, whether deserved or not deserved, will usually not go well. Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 16:54
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@user3580294 ... and not things that had been discussed ad absurdum already, if I may add. Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 6:52
Adding to Oded's answer,
Avoid alienating your audience.
Avoid name-calling.
Avoid invocation of Godwin's law, either directly or indirectly.
Quoting Wooble
I'd recommend not comparing closing your bad questions to the genocide of millions of people, to begin with. — link
No one using the term "Soup Nazi" was trying to engage said soup maker in a constructive dialog about the reasons for his customer service policies. If that was their aim, using the term would have been a bad start. — link
Avoid inflammatory, provocative, overly-emotional, hyperbolic, and bombastic language.
Quoting psubsee2003:
Try to use neutral terminology with a constructive tone. Calling people (or groups of people) names, whether deserved or not deserved, will usually not go well.
Avoid angry rants.
Avoid whining.
Be open-minded, not close-minded.
Read up on the following, before you ask your question:
Downvotes on Meta are confusing: do they *really* mean poor-post quality, or just disagreement?
How do I participate in Meta and not die trying? (thanks for the link Oded!)
Rant tag on Meta Stack Exchange (thanks animuson!)
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2There is also: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/44188/… Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 16:51
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1For what it's worth, not all Nazi comparisons are Godwin's Law invokable. The original context here was "topic nazi" which is about as offensive as "grammar nazi". No one really makes a comparison to Hitler or real Nazis when they talk about a "grammar nazi". I'm not saying it's the classiest thing to do anyway, and this whole question was doomed from the start, and personally I think the guy is trolling and isn't worth our time... but I also think the commenters are just looking for anything snarky they can at this point. "Throw the book at him" so to speak.– corsiKaCommented Jul 11, 2014 at 19:27
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8@corsiKa anyone coming here to Meta to start a critical discussion should just avoid using the word "Nazi", period, no matter how they intended to use it. Same goes for related terms like "fascist", etc. All of those things carry a boat-load of negative connotations, and are completely hyperbolic and unnecessary. They derail constructive discussions too easily, as I think you've already seen.– user456814Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 19:29
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Exactly. The reactions are hyperbolic and unnecessary. And you used one of those hyperbolic and unnecessary reactions to support your suggestion not to do it as though it was rational and warranted.– corsiKaCommented Jul 11, 2014 at 19:50
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2@corsiKa agree to disagree?
:P
– user456814Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 20:12 -
3
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7@AndrewBarber "Cupcake's Law": the tendency of online discussions to devolve into hilarity when every instance of the invocation of Godwin's Law is replaced by cupcakes.– user456814Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 0:27
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1Cupcake's Law seems much more fun than Godwin's!– Andrew Barber ModCommented Jul 12, 2014 at 21:59
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1@Oded I think even better MSE reference (cross-site dupe) is Is it possible on MSE to question something that people hold dear without getting “disagreement downvoted”?– gnatCommented Aug 8, 2014 at 6:26
It is perhaps worth adding that we understand that what we have here is truly amazing: a vast concentration of programing experts (and near experts and adequate practitioners and beginners) who are all willing to share of their knowledge for no reward but a warm fuzzy feeling and some worthless internet points.
We understand that you would like to tap that reservoir in various ways. We get it.
What we would like you to get it that this accumulation of interest and good will did not happen by accident. It was sowed and sprouted by the efforts of some widely regarded programming bloggers and business people and has been tended and trimmed and cared for by many people (both employees and users) who care about it.
These rules are not (at least in our minds) arbitrary: they are the result of careful observation and some hard fought, difficult decisions.
You are going to have to show us why we should change our minds. Not why you want a change, but why the community wants a change. What is in it for us?
This can be done, but it is not easy.
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This is a good answer, but unfortunately I doubt that the original poster will ever receive it
:/
– user456814Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 19:27 -
1This is one of the best replies to the question-rant "why does SO hate me" that I have read!– SchorschCommented Aug 10, 2014 at 15:38
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2From my experience, I think you* are shutting out people who are trying to enter the community, in the first place. I put forward that "regarded programming bloggers" still have blind spots; and that it is likely that they could have the same blind spots. If beginners are slapped down and shut out before they even have a chance to become a part of the community, then you will never receive their feedback, in the first place. *(not you specifically, but the policies/culture).– MaiyaCommented Sep 26, 2019 at 19:17
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@Maiya Beginners are not slapped down and shut out, but some beginners don't come to meta with an open mind and polite speech, unfortunately. The question on this thread was one of those until it was edited. Commented Sep 26, 2019 at 19:23
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1@ModusTollens That is not the experience that I had coming to the site as a beginner, and I know a lot of hard working beginners in real life that share the frustration. From what I have seen/experienced, the lack of knowledge at a beginner level is often down-voted, instead of giving the person feedback about what it is that they are missing. Often the comments on beginner posts are arrogant and dismissive, as if the person is intentionally being "lazy" - instead of realizing that they may not have formal training and may be confused about where and how to start.– MaiyaCommented Sep 26, 2019 at 19:27
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1@Maiya When you see comments like that, please flag them immediately as "rude". Such behavior is not ok. We have a "be nice" policy, so feel free to flag. Commented Sep 26, 2019 at 19:29
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@ModusTollens Thanks, I do sometimes. But is often just harsh attitude of dismissiveness & being arrogantly obtuse about helping some see see what they are missing. & it is often rooted in arguments that are literally the rules of SO. Also, if u get something TOTALLY wrong, but ur code happens to have recursion in it, then the rude ppl leave u alone. But, if u have a lack of understanding that is a basic or novice level, u r penalized w/ unexplained down-vote &/or dismissive comment. Thus it seems like beginners are not welcome or understood. Also, once you edit, people don't fix their votes.– MaiyaCommented Sep 26, 2019 at 19:44
:/