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When I posted this question - What is the difference between QCheckBox::toggled() and QCheckBox::clicked()?, it received 4 downvotes immediately, and the top-voted comment was that "This is clearly described in the official doc."

Eventually, however, it received more upvotes than downvotes, and it became a notable question (2500+ views). But the downvotes were all on the same day it was asked, while the upvotes and views slowly accumulated through the subsequent year. Right it has 6 upvotes and 5 downvotes.

Why did it gain views and upvotes, if it was bad, and why was it heavily downvoted, if it was good? Why is there such a disagreement between upvoters and downvoters? Now I'm baffled, and I don't know what to think about that question.

So what conclusions, if any, can I get from this particular question?

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  • 8
    What makes you think that having the exact same content on SO is going to be 5x faster to find that that same content on the documentation? I refute your premise that it'll be any faster.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:46
  • 6
    @Servy From my personal experience. I have noticed that I myself find information faster by Googling than reading the documentation. How do you refute it, btw? Do you have study proving that reading man pages is faster? Or is that your personal experience? I guess it would be as valid as mine.
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:49
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    @Joe I edited my question and removed any mention about Googling, now I'm just asking why it was upvoted and became popular? Why did so many people find it useful?
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:52
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    @sashoalm You're the one asserting here that SO is 5x faster. The burden of proof is on you to support that assertion.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:52
  • 1
    @Servy I edited my question and it's no longer about that. Forget about it.
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:53
  • @sashoalm 6 people upvoted it. That's not exactly popular. As for the views, you can't necessarily know how many of those viewers found the question helpful. The votes would indicate not very many of them. The vote/view ratio is actually very low there. And of course, even if someone did get their answer from that question, if they would have gotten their answer with the exact same amount of effort had this SO question never existed at all, they're still not really being helped by the question's existence.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:55
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    @Servy Did you read? The frequency of upvoting is accelerating. I think a lot of people thought that it must be a bad question if it's downvoted, and refrain from upvoting because of that.
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:58
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    @sashoalm That's your completely unsupported hypothesis for that behavior.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:00
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    @Servy Lack of proof is not proof against :) Besides, we're not in a courtroom from the movies with "beyond a reasonable doubt", I don't need proof to be yapping on a public forum. Ease up :)
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:00
  • @sashoalm Sure, you don't need to prove anything, but your assertions accordingly have that much less weight when you're incapable of supporting your assertions.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:05
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    Always do some research yourself; it’s just common courtesy. If you need help understanding the documentation, be sure to point that out! People will be more likely to help, and your question will be more specific and useful. You can take the opportunity to direct future viewers to something useful they wouldn’t have seen otherwise, too. Of course, it’s possible that you still couldn’t have found the documentation if you had looked, and the question is okay, but putting in the effort to add more detail makes a question more than okay, which is good.
    – Ry- Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:09
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    This is a very serious problem, the SO question is ranked higher than the vendor's documentation in the Google hits. Which is why you got the late upvotes. This gives the vendor an impossible job to maintain the docs. The question should be deleted. Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:25
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    @HansPassant I don't get why it should be deleted? How does it harm anything? The answer is not incorrect, so why does it matter if you get it from StackOverflow? Do you mean ranked higher if you Google for "QCheckBox toggled vs clicked"?
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:27
  • It is the top hit for "QCheckBox::toggled". A vendor being unable to maintain documentation because it is scatter-shot through many SO posts that everybody looks at first is of course very harmful. Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:47
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    @HansPassant Oh, that's true for many other Qt methods. I've learned not to Google the methods directly, instead I Google the class names, and then search in the page for the method. But that's not just my question's doing, and not even SO, sometimes the top posts are from qtforums.com.
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 19:19

3 Answers 3

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Why did it gain views and upvotes, if it was bad, and why was it heavily downvoted, if it was good?

You're asking us to explain why large groups of people don't always agree on everything.

Why is there such a disagreement between upvoters and downvoters?

I think the two comments left a few months after the question was posted explain that.

Often, this is not clear for a newcomer. I upvote it – swdev Jun 10 at 20:34
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Official doc is not always clear, plus a link to the official doc where it is "clearly described" would have been more helpful that RTFM type response. – neuronet Jun 27 at 1:11

So it appears that your question initially looked like something that could easily be looked up in the documentation. People who downvoted for that reason may not have even bothered looking. Later, other people who had the same question and did bother to look thought the question had merit and upvoted it.

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  • It seems that my meta question has added fresh new downvotes, now it's 9 upvotes/8 downvotes :)
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 19:21
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Upvotes on months-old questions are far less likely to mean "I think this question is well-researched and well-written" than they are to mean "I found this question via a Google search and I'm upvoting it because I had the same question (or I wouldn't be reading it at all)."

Initial downvotes, on the other hand, largely come from people reading the front page or newest questions list and see a question that's not well-researched or that seems unlikely to be useful to future visitors. Obviously, it's impossible to guess a few minutes after the question is posted whether someone eventually will find it useful. Many of the highest-upvoted questions on SO aren't particularly well-written and well-researched, but they get constant upvotes because they have good pagerank and useful answers.

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The Stack Overflow question reads:

Is there a practical difference between the QCheckBox::toggled(bool) and QCheckBox::clicked(bool) signals? Both have the same signature, does it matter to which one I connect?

Well, the commenter cost me a couple of minutes by linking to the wrong page, but I did eventually find these two references:

void QAbstractButton::toggled ( bool checked ) [signal]

This signal is emitted whenever a checkable button changes its state. checked is true if the button is checked, or false if the button is unchecked.

This may be the result of a user action, click() slot activation, or because setChecked() was called.

The states of buttons in exclusive button groups are updated before this signal is emitted. This means that slots can act on either the "off" signal or the "on" signal emitted by the buttons in the group whose states have changed.

For example, a slot that reacts to signals emitted by newly checked buttons but which ignores signals from buttons that have been unchecked can be implemented using the following pattern:

 void MyWidget::reactToToggle(bool checked)
 {
    if (checked) {
       // Examine the new button states.
       ...
    }
 }

Button groups can be created using the QButtonGroup class, and updates to the button states monitored with the QButtonGroup::buttonClicked() signal.

And...

void QAbstractButton::clicked ( bool checked = false ) [signal]

This signal is emitted when the button is activated (i.e. pressed down then released while the mouse cursor is inside the button), when the shortcut key is typed, or when click() or animateClick() is called. Notably, this signal is not emitted if you call setDown(), setChecked() or toggle().

If the button is checkable, checked is true if the button is checked, or false if the button is unchecked.

See also pressed(), released(), and toggled().

Mkay...

The Stack Overflow answer says:

The toggled signal is emited every time the check state of the checkbox changes, even if it changes through code, while the clicked signal is emited only when the user interacts with the checkbox, eg:

ui->checkbox->setChecked(true);  // toggled will be emited but not clicked

Well. I'd say that's a useful clarification.

Verdict: Good question, good answer.

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    Yet another reason not to have a "general reference" close reason. Often, questions which appear to be answerable using the official documentation produce answers that are much easier to find and much more to-the-point;
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:55
  • So then what were the dynamics of the downvoting? Why was there such a consensus that it's a bad question at the beginning? The 4 downvotes accumulated in minutes, while the first upvote was months after that. I even regretted asking such a question, and made sure not to ask similar ones (at least for a while).
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:55
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    This answer is highly misleading. You don't need to read the entirety of the content you quoted to get your answer. By the second line of the first quote the distinction is crystal clear. That's almost exactly the same amount of text in the SO answer. And of course when looking at the SO answer one would need to read the question first, bringing the amount of text to more than looking at the documentation.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 15:57
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    @Servy: Not all of us are QT experts, and so don't immediately see what is so clearly obvious to you.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:00
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    @Servy If you already know the answer beforehand (because you read it in StackOverlow), and where to look for it, then yeah, it probably would be as fast to "find" it in the docs :) It was not faster for me - I actually tried, and gave up for 4-5 minutes.
    – sashoalm
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:00
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    @RobertHarvey I'm not a QT expert. I don't need to be one. That second line is specifically distinguishing the two concepts, and is saying more or less what the answer is saying (but without being as vague; it's a complete and specific explanation).
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:02
  • Eh. Hmm.
    – Ry- Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:04
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    So, @Servy, you then can see where Stack Overflow provides value by being less vague. That is precisely why Stack Overflow exists. That's why most documentation is sometimes referred to as "reference documentation", a place to go to refer to something you already have some knowledge/understanding of but simply need some clarity on... My guess is that next time sashoalm works with these methods, this user can simply go to the docs... Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:04
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    @jmort253 SO was the answer that was vague and incomplete. The documentation was clearer and more specific.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:06
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    @Servy: You mean more legalistically correct, don't you? Sure, if you already know what terms like "signal," "emitted" and "slot activation" mean, the documentation is going to be more "correct." Thanks, but just give me some Cliff notes, please; point me in the right direction. That's the whole point of Stack Overflow; if we're not going to allow that, then why are we all here? This might have been a problem if the OP had asked for a detailed tutorial; he didn't.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:09
  • @RobertHarvey Well those two lines are very similar. The differences that do exist are certainly not monumental (even if you're not as familiar with the technical vocabulary). Probably one of the more significant differences is the difference between saying that the value changes in code and listing the specific method in code that is used to change it.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:22
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    @RobertHarvey As to your point about "the point of SO". I see the point of SO to be adding to the information available to programmers. Or making quality content available when it is currently difficult to find among a lot of really bad content. Repeating a bunch of existing content in slightly slower quality harms both of those goals. Adding more noise instead of signal to the world is contrary to SO's goals. Encouraging people to be going around duplicating content while reducing its quality just so that SO can pull attention away from official documentation just isn't helpful.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:25
  • @Servy: I've seen much worse than this. Compare with stackoverflow.com/questions/24615206
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:28
  • @RobertHarvey So because there exists a post that is worse than this this is a quality post that should be encouraged? By that logic SO should allow every single question other than the one worst question in existence. SO was created with the premise of being a place to go to find quality content. Not just content that's not "actively unhelpful". There are tons of other sites out there that allow pretty much every question that's not actively harmful. SO thrived to begin with because people could come here to have a higher standard of quality than, "not actively harmful".
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:33
  • @RobertHarvey I see these posts as pretty comparable. Neither seems to have done any research, both are trivially answered through Google, even if you never touch an SO post, neither is helpful if answered here. Do you consider that post different?
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 7, 2014 at 16:36

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