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There is a lot of talk about newcomers (newbies, beginners, etc.) lately, and especially the quality of their contributions.

What irks me regarding this discussion is that it seems to group all newcomers into one single category, labeled "newbies".

However, the world of questions and answers about programming and the special culture of SO has many aspects, and one can be new to or experienced in many of them independently.

From memory, I can come up with a list like this:

  • Programming in general (variables, control flow, algoritms, etc.)
  • A specific programming language (e.g., Java, LISP, VB, etc.)
  • How to use the tools of the trade
  • How to ask and answer a question using the conventions of written language
  • How to write in general (use of paragraphs, punctuation, introduction-body-conclusion, etc.)
  • How to judge the quality of a piece of information (for voting, comments, accepting, etc.)
  • Plus the difficult one, how to express oneself in English

I am sure there are more - looking forward to seeing what skills people think are useful or needed to contribute constructively to SO, and especially to hear from people who have just started on SO recently.

The problem I see is that some people arrive to SO with most, if not all, of the above points already covered, while others, at the other end of the scale have zero practical knowledge about any of them.

My question is, how many aspects (and which) is it reasonable to expect of the community to spend effort to mentor other members in, and which can we say that we expect people to have covered sufficiently on their own before venturing into SO for the first time?

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    Eric S. Raymond has already answered your question. Commented May 14, 2014 at 18:58
  • @RobertHarvey Thanks for a clear comment and how nice to see that paper again. Now the question becomes: what does it take to get that across to the intended recipients? BTW, should this comment not be an answer?
    – Monolo
    Commented May 14, 2014 at 21:15
  • @RobertHarvey : and yet here's an example of such a newbie question (extremely basic, but clear, and a legitimate question), and what happens? It gets tons of downvotes: stackoverflow.com/questions/23820374/…
    – smci
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 6:55
  • @smci Actually, that post does not really contain a question. Of course, one can still guess what the poster wants - my reading is that he wants the community to write a small parser for him, or at least provide the algorithm and method to do it. There is also no evidence of the poster's own effort before posting, adding to the feeling that this would be better suited for Amazon's Mechanical Turk service. I have to say that I find the downvotes to have been cast correctly in this case.
    – Monolo
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 8:09
  • Yes it absolutely does: "I would like to be able to iterate over that list of strings and extract only those highlighted id values.". It's stated as a request, not a question. Yes, he didn't show much effort. No, he's not looking for a parser, only a one-line regex (although he may not know this). It could be downvoted for 'not enough effort', but not 'unclear'.
    – smci
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 16:28
  • @smci Exactly, it is a request, not a question. I personally don't think that this is a site for that. People should show some previous effort, and if they run into a problem while writing their parser, post a specific question about it. Result: No (legitimate) downvotes.
    – Monolo
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 16:32
  • @Monolo: It's a legitimate question. He's not looking for a parser actually, only a regex. The guy can't spell parser, or regex. He doesn't know he's looking for a parser. Not everyone knows what a regex or parser is. If you think back to before you knew what one was, how would you have phrased this question? ("I have this list of strings and I want to extract the numbers"). "Not enough effort displayed" is a separate issue.
    – smci
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 19:34

1 Answer 1

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My question is, how many aspects (and which) is it reasonable to expect of the community to spend effort to mentor other members in

None. SE is not a mentoring site. It is a question and answer site. Either the question is up to the site's standards, and is allowable, or it isn't. It's really that simple. If the question isn't up to the site's standards, and some user would like to, out of the goodness of their heart, take the time to help the author of a question improve it into an acceptable question, then that's great, but there is no expectation or obligation of the site to do this.

Some questions clearly have a good potential and will be seen to be worth fixing up. Other questions are clearly just turds that there is no point trying to polish.

At the end of the day it is the responsibility of the question author alone to provide an acceptable question. Any help by the community, while welcome and encouraged, is not required.

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    Lovely clear answer. I am especially glad to see it expressed that there is no expectation of the site to help posters who have not taken the time to understand the standards. There have been quite a few posts on meta over the years trying to create such expectations (if you downvote you must also explain, don't close a question if you can edit it, idem with a downvote to a badly written answer, etc.).
    – Monolo
    Commented May 14, 2014 at 21:26
  • I'm not sure this gets to the heart of the question, but then in fairness I'm not sure how to do so. I get as frustrated as anyone else at the low quality of questions, but @Monolo seems to be asking how to determine where the dividing line is between the turds and the diamonds in the rough. I think for most people this is very subjective, regardless of the site's standards. And that's what bites "newbies" who think their questions fall on the right side of the line - who might be well versed in many of the things the OP lists, but are deemed by potential answerers to fall short in others. Commented May 15, 2014 at 11:22
  • @shambulator I agree the dividing line currently is very subjective, but if it got defined better then at least there would be a place to point to for people who otherwise would only rely on their pre-conceived notions. Your thoughts on what bite the newcomers sound interesting - care to elaborate them in an answer?
    – Monolo
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 12:02
  • @shambulator The question is asking when we should expect the community to fix up a question for the author. The answer to that is never. We never expect the community to do so. Any individual is welcome to do so whenever they are inclined to help. If that's never that is perfectly fine. It is up to the judgement of each individual user to determine if they think that any given question is worth saving, and therefore to determine if they want to try to help save it.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 13:56

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