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Today I didn't feel like being a proper Loungizen so I decided to actually help out someone in chat.

That someone asked the room a question about the relation between pointer arithmetic and array indexing in C++, and I decided to do a search and find a question with a really good answer about it, which I am sure I have encountered before on the site.

So I typed the keywords "[c++] array indexing pointer" into SO's search box, and...

I was greeted with sbi's canonical entry on operator overloading as the first result. Wha...? "Oh well, it's probably all the upvotes", I thought. I look down through the list of results and I find way too many titles that are either not very helpful, or just flat-out useless. Here's a sample of the useless ones:

  • "Indexing an array of chars - issue with pointers"
  • "array indexing with pointers in C++ [closed]"
  • "pointer to array c++"
  • "array indexing from a pointer"
  • "Pointer with cin implementation issue"
  • "Tricky dynamic objects and pointers"
  • "C++ Pointer Pointing to index of an Array of Objects"
  • "Problem understanding a pointer to a function"
  • "Point to an indexed pointed"
  • "C++ array accessing"
  • "Pointer and memory allocation for the pointee"
  • "Error for pointer to member in C++"
  • "Strings and indexes in C++"
  • "c++ using vector of employee pointers"
  • "Array pointer arithmetic question"
  • "Polymorphism and array of pointers problem in C++"

(Note that I don't mean the questions themselves or the answers to them are useless; the titles are.)

Before clicking through any of those, I already have a strong feeling that all of those hits will have bad questions on the other side. Good questions don't have titles that could describe anything. I tend to describe these titles as "names of random language features strung together" because that's exactly what they are. Some are actually so literally that that they combine the random language features in ways that only make you think "WTF?". Sometimes one or more of the words "problem", "question", "error", or "issue" gets thrown in together with the names of the language features but it doesn't really help in making it useful. In my experience, questions titled like this tend to have usefulness that is in line with the usefulness of the title, but maybe there are a few good ones out there that happen to have such a poor title.

I appreciate the irony in the first result whose title is nothing but the name of one language feature. However, when you click through you see that what is on the other side cannot be titled much better than that, because it basically amounts to a comprehensive description of the language feature. I guess it could be phrased as a question like "How does operator overloading work?" and that might be better, but the current title is still representative of the content one will find on the other side.

(Note though that that first result is not really related to the topic I was searching for.)

I clicked through some of the titles that didn't look absolutely useless, and...

  • some were completely misleading and the question has nothing to do with it (for example, "Freeing memory with Pointer Arithmetic" is all about allocating memory and has a single nonsensical mention of "free" in its body);
  • some have reasonably descriptive titles but what it describes only matches the subject in question in a somewhat unimportant manner (for example, "Assigning pointer to an index in an array of pointers" is indeed about that, but turned out to be related to an undisclosed external reason; it should be closed as too localised);
  • some are actually good questions that have titles that appropriately describe their content.

I didn't try them all.

Even though my search terms are quite broad, it's all but impossible for me to filter the tons of results I was given without actually clicking through them and reading them. The search results page might as well just give me a list of numbered links without any text and it helps out almost as much in my search.

(Note that I haven't edited any of the results I found in the interest of being able to show what I'm talking about easily, but they should be fitted with a proper title, or closed if there's no such thing.)

Is this a general problem, or does my choice of keywords hit a particularly noticeable cluster of horrible titles? Can we expect users to search things if when they do we present them with low-quality search results?

If this is indeed a problem, what can we do to mitigate it?

(Here I mean low-quality from a point of view of "can I easily tell that this is what I am looking for, or something that will help further my search?", not necessarily related to the actual quality of the questions presented.)

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    Yes, my title is horrible. I took some... artistic license? May 6, 2014 at 18:25
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    I've observed that google search (even without specifying site search, i.e. site:stackoverflow.com search query, gives better search results compared to SO search.
    – devnull
    May 6, 2014 at 18:28
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    "Today I didn't feel like being a proper Loungizen so I decided to actually help out someone in chat." ... are you okay? Is there someone you'd like us to call?
    – Bart
    May 6, 2014 at 18:28
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    emacs has a doctor mode too!
    – devnull
    May 6, 2014 at 18:30
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    I do all my SO searching via google, but then thats probably true of any site search. Hard to beat google, and I'm usually closer to the address bar than any top right search box.
    – OGHaza
    May 6, 2014 at 18:32
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    SE would be better off just sending the query/redirect to google's site.
    – mxmissile
    May 6, 2014 at 18:50
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    @mxmissile Except that google doesn't support searches like [tag1] or [tag2] is:answer May 6, 2014 at 19:07
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    Google has ruined search for everyone.
    – Matt
    May 6, 2014 at 19:39
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    To be honest I usually use google to search for answers in stackoverflow.. shame on me.
    – Marco A.
    May 6, 2014 at 19:50
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    I suppose the team could just cheat and use one of those 'search powered by Google' widgets and call it a bodge job. May 6, 2014 at 20:08
  • @devnull, indeed. It would be difficult for anyone with a public site to out-Google Google. May 6, 2014 at 21:09
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    @PaulDraper Just because search is difficult isn't an excuse for not trying to make it better. See my comments here meta.stackexchange.com/questions/481/…
    – Dhaust
    May 7, 2014 at 3:17
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    @PlasmaHH I don't think the problem is search. As you said, Google gets you the same results. The problem is the titles. We need to be more aggressive in editing titles. May 14, 2014 at 10:24
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    Possibly related: Should I edit titles which have nothing to do with the actual problem?.
    – user456814
    May 14, 2014 at 11:08

1 Answer 1

-1

Anything can be fixed with a smarter search engine, as Google proves. But I do think those question titles are bad, and we should try to fix them. I'm going to focus on the proposals for getting better titles, and though I'm posting here because this question is newer (and has good examples of the problem I think we should try to fix) this answer should probably be added to How to save the world... One question title at a time from Meta.

If we take question titles seriously, we need to add a workflow for improving them. The reason a question needs to be asked is because the author is missing something, and as a result I don't think they are capable of creating good titles when they write the question. It is those with the most domain knowledge who are best able to come up with a title that accurately reflects the question and is likely to attract people with the same problem.

People have said that this is a problem the community should solve, and I agree, but proposals like a review queue for titles doesn't seem like a good idea. The people reviewing those queues will likely agree that the title could be better, but without a solid understanding of the problem domain, the most they can do is propose a better one. It would be preferable if those with specific understanding of the problem were responsible for improving question titles.

... but how?

Allow titles to be proposed and voted on

What if we thought about question titles as an important and unique entity rather than just a part of the question?

What if, when someone answers a question, they could also provide a better title (but only if they feel it needs it, not for minor adjustments) to the author? Perhaps the author can see the proposed titles and make one of them effective. But I don't think we should limit it just to those who answer the question-- there should also be a link near the title that can be clicked when that user believes the title needs improvement where they, too, can recommend the title be changed. Subject to minimum reputation requirements, perhaps.

There should be a limit on how many title proposals there are. If the max is reached, you can only select the best proposal available (essentially voting for it) and/or downvote or flag the existing proposals. If a proposal gets enough downvotes, it makes room for new one proposals. Once you have a handful of proposals that a few people have chosen as their favorite, the author and high-rep users can make one of the proposals effective. Users with high-enough reputation can summarily make a title effective and close voting. You could also have a queue questions with proposed titles that have been recommended, and the managers of that queue could decide to make a title effective and/or close voting as long as some number of reviewers picked it.

This way, a review queue would only come into play if the community seems somewhat evenly split between two or more titles. They simply pick the one that seems best.

Then End

I doubt that what I've just described will actually be implemented because it's rather elaborate and would be a big change, but I wanted to put it out there since no one else proposed anything similar. Maybe there are smaller changes that are easier to implement that would be just as effective. It's just my thoughts on a way we could get the community involved in fixing these low-quality titles, and I think better question titles would translate into better search results and better duplicate searches.

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    You seem to be describing suggested edits, which are already implemented, and of course >2k users can unilaterally edit the title just like any other part of the question. But few bother, especially for questions that themselves are low-quality or closed, where there's little value in improving the question but arguably value in getting the garbage out of the search's way. Feb 17, 2016 at 10:06
  • @JeffreyBosboom I do take the time to beat titles into shape, but you also hit the mark - I don't bother with bad questions. Mostly because it is generally accepted wisdom to not edit questions which cannot be salvaged. Should that not apply to titles I wonder?
    – Gimby
    Feb 17, 2016 at 13:18
  • @JeffreyBosboom Suggested edits can be used to make titles better, but the people working the edit review queue only approve edits that improve formatting and correct spelling/grammar. If you only edit the title, your edit will probably be rejected because it isn't "substantial." And if your new title is substantial, it'll be rejected because it "changes the question's meaning." That's why I think titles need special treatment-- reviewers should use different criteria for deciding when to accept a suggested title than they use with suggested edits. Feb 18, 2016 at 22:15
  • In my experience, reviewers seem to think that you should only edit a question if it needs to be edited. They also don't allow you to add something that wasn't there before. When I rewrote a paragraph that was unclear, rejected: "changed the meaning." When I corrected terminology that was wrong but easy to mistake, rejected. When I added missing context, rejected. If I just fix the formatting and spelling, accepted every time. Suggested editing is a feature that's useful in theory, but in practice it has only one use because of the reviewers. Feb 18, 2016 at 23:20
  • @DavidSchwartz see it from the other side: eventually you'll hit that magic 2k rep barrier and can edit stuff without review. Until then the review queues are there to give a sort of understanding and respect for the things you should and should not edit. Now I'm not going to say that people reject for all the right reasons, but neither do editors do everything as generally accepted to be a "good idea". Don't rebel too much against rejections.
    – Gimby
    Feb 23, 2016 at 13:15
  • @Gimby That reviewers reject perfectly good edits is a topic for another day (one I brought up on meta: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/221702/…) The point is, you can only use suggested edits for edits that will pass the review queue, and these kinds of edits will not. Thus, suggested edits is not a solution to the problem unless you also retrain reviewers. Feb 23, 2016 at 19:15

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