1

I would like to spend just a few words on this question.

Where is the <kbd> tag in the guidelines

The question was downvoted since the readers thought it was showing a lack of effort. The comment from the opener, in my opinion, showed this to be an hurried hypothesis. Human are hurried and subjective. We are always interpreting and judging the reality. And, for sure, we can make mistakes.

But the main point is that the answer is really interesting. In particular the last part

Stack Overflow, as the editing help suggests, supports a strict subset of HTML. The < kbd> element is standard HTML markup.

Now I wonder, what is the main purpose of SO? Trying to classify question in good and bad?

Or trying to spread knowledge?

I see here very low quality questions, really lacking of any effort. Why not trying to distinguish to really bad questions and questions which are leading to an Information Gain?

Again. Have a fast look at what Stack Overflow was writing: link to SO official blog article

This is a sentence taken from that article:

Because we believe so deeply in learning, we are willing to go to great lengths to suppress the discussion, debate, and opinions that — while plenty entertaining — cause most forums to inevitably break down.

It doesn't says: since we believe so much in classifying good questions. Neither it says: "we believe in punishing who opens bad questions. It says: "to achieve the objective of spreading knowledge we have to discourage behavior which are against this objective".

When a question which had been voted to be closed gets a very interesting answer (upvoted). Every vote to close proves, for definition, to be harmful against the main purpose of this community: getting good answer.

So, let me a provocation, why don't we punish this low level contribution (downvotes and votes to close)?

12
  • 4
    What is it you're asking here? Didn't the community just downvote your question because it considered it to be a low quality contribution. Or are you still of the believe that the community gets it wrong each single time you ask something?
    – Bart
    Apr 25, 2014 at 12:39
  • 1
    I don't see how that answer achieves that goal. "It's on that page you linked, just look harder" doesn't really spread any useful information. Seems like a pretty bad example.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Apr 25, 2014 at 12:39
  • 10
    Downvotes are not punishment. Upvotes are not rewards. Reputation is nearly meaningless. There is no spoon. Apr 25, 2014 at 12:44
  • The are no questions, there are no answers. There is only what cannot be named. There is only..... this. Apr 25, 2014 at 12:48
  • @Bart: "you still of the believe that the community gets it wrong each single time you ask something?" - I've never had this thought. Me has nothing to do with the problem at this community. 500 upvotes on a question about negativity here states the existance of a problem.
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 11:42
  • Negativity and the downvoting of poor questions are not the same thing. That discussion has not apparent relevance to the issue you're raising here.
    – Bart
    Apr 26, 2014 at 11:44
  • @animuson: the answer says that the <kbd> tag is a standard html tag. And also that many other tags from html can be reused here. You may already know this. I didn't.
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 11:45
  • @FrédéricHamidi: perfect, then, why not to lower reputation to people who downote questions which receive good answers. Can you explain me the objectives and utility of downvotes? Then try to see if this objectives are reached by the downvotes on question like that one. My opinion is that SO is becoming a witch hunt and most of people forgot the objective for which downvotes were thought.
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 11:47
  • @Bart: opinionable beliefs expressed in your last comment: the word "poor" question lacks of an evidence based definition. It seems to be understood that the objective of SO is to witch hunt low level question, while it's clearly written in the blog that the objective is spreading knowledge. Can you please explain why you think that downvotes to questions which produce good quality answer is compatible with the objective of this community? Try to do this excercize. Stop and really answer this question.
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 11:51
  • 2
    Because we want good quality questions. If someone is able to provide stunning answers to poor questions, I'll praise the answer. And I'll downvote the question. It signals that you as the OP should improve to both you and others. And it shows the answer to be a good one. The thought that good answers imply good questions is fundamentally flawed. If you are worried that a downvoted question might reduce the visibility of the answer and thereby limit the spread of knowledge, improve the question.
    – Bart
    Apr 26, 2014 at 11:53
  • 1
    This is SO ironic.
    – user2961646
    Apr 27, 2014 at 0:12
  • I've downvoted this question, so now it's a "bad" question with a net score of -1 (+9, -10) leading to a good answer with a net score of +15. Mar 23, 2018 at 1:21

1 Answer 1

16

The question that you linked isn't a shining example of this, but I have seen amazing answers come from very poor (one might even go as far as to say lazy) questions on the main site. It's not extremely common, but it does happen from time to time.

You need some ingredients to make it happen:

  • A question that can at least be understood by someone with a great deal of knowledge
  • Someone with a great deal of knowledge and time that likes to teach. These are the kinds of people that spend 15 minutes or more on every single answer that they write, and I'm happy that we have folks like that.
  • A topic with unexpected depth

We have a badge for this called reversal - and it's a gold badge, one of the hardest to earn. It's occasionally awarded for someone giving a bit of a snarky answer to a poor question, but most that earn it worked hard for it once they saw an opportunity to get one.

Once you have that amazing answer in place, folks can then look at the question and see parts that it was missing which the answer speaks to, then go back and add those parts. When all is said and done (in practice almost as often as in theory) - you end up with a very good question in the end, which is subsequently elevated in score over time.

As far as meta goes? I get a little annoyed when I see people asking where basic functionality lives which isn't obvious get down-voted heavily, and I think many forget that getting started here can be a little overwhelming - you just miss stuff since there's so much to take in.

Oh, yeah - trivia. For a long time we weren't allowed to have the <kbd> tag because people kept building castles with it. The down votes weren't meant to be punishment, folks here are very creative and driven (but sometimes grumpy) castle-building contributors. They see a lot of questions here, many from people that were just too lazy to look and are never seen again. We're all human, after all.

11
  • 1
    The OP however seems to imply that because the answer is great, the question must have been good all along. The ugly duckling turned out to be a swan all along. Well no, without subsequent effort it's still an ugly duckling.
    – Bart
    Apr 25, 2014 at 13:00
  • 2
    Hey! That was a top secret location! Now I have to go build another castle somewhere else...
    – animuson StaffMod
    Apr 25, 2014 at 13:01
  • 2
    @Bart The voice in my head read the sentence correctly, so how was I to know that I missed typing half of it? :P Thanks - edited.
    – Tim Post
    Apr 25, 2014 at 13:02
  • 3
    @Bart It's not quite that black and white, I think. The premise of the question, however un-articulated (or poorly articulated) is really the swan in such cases, not the question itself so much. And another, better question could have gotten the same answer - possibly an hour later than the poor question was asked. But, it did manage to get a great answer which makes it worth making worth something - if that makes sense? I see his point, I don't think the example is the best, so I'm speaking more to the point than the example.
    – Tim Post
    Apr 25, 2014 at 13:05
  • Speaking to the point, sure, that can happen. And I have seen questions that seemed trivial or "oh no, not that again" turn out to get answers that made the question not as trivial as expected. Then it's worth something. But that is a rare occasion. The OP however seems to overextend this principle a bit when applying it to hurried downvotes and harmful close votes. In the general case great (or just good) answers don't save questions.
    – Bart
    Apr 25, 2014 at 13:11
  • @TimPost: I really appreciated your answer. I would like to start with some reference to the real world. The idea (shared by many) of being able to classify the questions as good and not good, seems quite like seeing the reality as black and white. Human makes error! Always. They follow trends. The psychology explains all this stuff very well. But also without going so deep, for making an objective classification we should spend time and put a huge effort in this task. Look at reviews for example. Nothing made by man is objetive.
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 12:01
  • @TimPost: I'm sure you agree with what I said, but you think that I don't understand that what I said proves nothing.. The concept can be formalized by saying that downvotes are however contributing to SO objective. And I strongly agree with this idea. The problem is that, in my humble opinion, humans being are often oscillating between the two opposite extremes, putting a large effort in their tasks they sometimes forget to check if their effort are still going in the right direction.
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 12:05
  • @TimPost: now.. I completely understand that is boring to read a question which a user could have solved by himself. But.. this is not really stating that the OP is bad, or not worthing or is worst than the one who is bored by the lack of effort. (cogsci.stackexchange.com/questions/5984/…) However.. I'm bored as well by this stuff. Also, how can we understand if a user really put some effort or not? The OP of this question (it's me) and he did put a strong effort. Failing for a coincidence..
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 12:11
  • @TimPost: but the main question is: let's assume that people here have become a bit tired, affected by negativity and so on. Could the problem been bound to a wrong interpretation of the objective of this community? If we share the idea that most of the question are of a low level and that they shouldn't be asked... mmm... the expectations of the community could become irrealistic. It's like thinking that I only want a perfect woman. And the worst thing is that if the objective here is to spread knowledge.. the behavior of hurried dowvoting / closing is not contributing in this sense
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 12:16
  • @TimPost: sorry for stealing you so much time. I will say just another stuff, and then I will only listen. Look to the comment here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/251983/… ; also other members cannot understand the reason for the downvotes, because of the lack of any comment (I'm speaking of the question on SO not meta).
    – Revious
    Apr 26, 2014 at 14:44
  • Hi @TimPost, sorry to ping you like this, but I read this whilst in search of some guidance. I tried to polish a turd earlier but was unable to post an answer before it was closed, so ended up posting an answer/link in comments. I attempted to re-open, but some folks in the SOCVR said it should be left closed due to lack of effort from OP and that I shouldn't spoon feed, even though i felt the answer i formulated and the edits i made to the post would help the OP and future visitors to the site. Was I way off with my actions?
    – Tanner
    Apr 10, 2018 at 22:35

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .