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One of the newer features we have in our toolbelt is the ability to lock questions in a sort of wiki state, where no new answers can be added, but existing answers can be improved. You'll see its usage most recently here:

Best C/C++ Network Library?

This question has a few things that keep it from being deleted:

  • Tons of inbound links
  • The number of views
  • Not too terrible content
  • The chance that the C++ (or is it C) community will have a hissy fit if it's summarily deleted

However, it has a few problems that keep it from being 'open':

  • It's really off topic for the site (now).
  • In the answers, just about every answer is opinion and they all invited lots of discussion and counter-opinions

I don't want to see it deleted (unless you really, really, really, want that), but I think this question is a good example for what we could do with old List of X questions that are otherwise lightning rods.

Why

There is forever going to be a rift between those that love List of X questions and those that hate them. Likewise the deletionists and the hoarders are always going to be at odds. This approach allows a way to appease both groups. We aren't removing old content, but we aren't letting the weeds grow, either.

The approach of "Locking to One Question / One answer" has a few benefits:

  • The "Answer in question" is done away with, giving clear separation between the question the user has and the 'best' answer for that question
  • One answer can continually be edited, making sure that the content isn't stale (so long as there is community involvement
  • No more answers can be added (keeping people from having 26 pages of "I really loved Pragmatic Programmers, C++ edition")
  • No reputation (and thus reputation envy) for those that continue to contribute to these lists. This doesn't happen often, but it does happen
  • Old reputation gains are still kept, even if the answers are deleted

For this to happen:

  • There'd need to be agreement and consensus for which questions should be kept, and which should just be deleted
  • The other answers in the question would be deleted and consolidated into the 'main' answer (this should be done by the community)
  • The question would be converted to CW if it isn't already

Discussion:

What are the advantages and disadvantages of this approach? How can we make this better? Is there a better way? Are we better off just leaving old questions alone?

The impetus for this discussion is that that particular question had over 20 flags on it or its various answers, which is a large number of flags, and a lot of time where users or moderators have to spend dealing with flags on these few posts. This is just an example, there are plenty more that we deal with on a daily basis.

A list of questions that seem like they'd be a good fit for this -- taken right off the first few pages of the most voted questions (this list is not exhaustive, just gives an example of questions that would benefit from it):

Incidentally, while doing research for this question, I found a whole 'nother category of questions that wouldn't be appropriate for this sort of lock, but also aren't really a good fit because they have many equally valid answers (I have no idea what to do with them)

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    Why can't these be handled on a case-by-case basis, as they are flagged (just as you did with the question cited here)? It's not like we get inundated with such flags; they are a relatively small proportion of the flag workload.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Mar 11, 2014 at 17:41
  • Seems like each question would have to be raised individually on Meta and discussed.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Mar 11, 2014 at 18:10
  • Note that by using the lock that you have on that question, rather than the "historical lock" feature, we don't get the text saying that this is an example of a question that doesn't belong on the site. (Unless you can add that sub-text when locking this question?) It is no longer possible for someone coming across this question to realize that it is not acceptable to emulate it.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 11, 2014 at 18:28
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    Are we going to do the Repocalypse all over again? Guys like Bill Karwin are still very active SO contributors, it won't be any prettier. Commented Mar 13, 2014 at 23:13
  • Will deleting the other answers cause users who earned rep before it became CW, lose a lot of rep? Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 4:39
  • @SamuelLiewL: Yes, they'll lose any reputation that they gained through that question. Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 9:09
  • Sounds like there needs to be a more in-depth set of standards about which can be locked versus deleted. I can't say much. I'm new to all this :)
    – meer2kat
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 13:50
  • Some of these items (well if packaged right anyway) could move to Software Recommendations. I would hope that now that we have the two sites, they (the mods) do work together. I do realize though that SR cannot become the dumping ground for SO's discarded material.
    – demongolem
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 15:23
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    I think you did this well, George, thanks for the effort! Can you now please also nuke this comment, which suggests to read 25 years old articles? Thanks!
    – sbi
    Commented Mar 24, 2014 at 16:38
  • The whole C++ book thread does not make any sense to me despite the upvotes because it is tagwiki material and it is already there. It should be handled by a bulldozer. Also, I feel it unfair to collect others' highly upvoted answers into your own post in there without any external attribute. Commented May 11, 2014 at 20:30
  • Can't close questions as duplicates of a tag wiki, @Laszlo. Can't search for them, can't find them in title or dup-suggestions, can't find them in the related or linked sidebars, and they tend to have lousy SEO unless they're heavily crosslinked in... answers. In short, tag wikis are generally better as a way of directing folks to questions than the reverse.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 11, 2014 at 20:54
  • @Shog9: Why on earth would you try to close a question as duplicate for tagwiki?! I still honestly recommend a bulldozer. Furthermore, if you cannot search tagwikis, you have two major problems on SE instead of one .. Really, that is just a very essential feature since they contain a lot of useful information. Do a favor please and get that fixed! Commented May 11, 2014 at 21:12
  • Joking? No, I'm pragmatic, @Laszlo - I'm not recommending a solution that won't work and then demanding it get fixed. That's not even a full list of issues with tag wikis - they're useful, and some of them are very good, but trying to turn them into massive repositories of all tag-relevant information breaks them very, very quickly. Forget the book lists - the C++ community on SO has dozens of common FAQ entries that they link to frequently. None of that's possible in a tag wiki, even if the length restrictions didn't exist (and they do).
    – Shog9
    Commented May 11, 2014 at 21:43
  • Tagwiki is a fundamentally broken thing on SO IMHO at this point of time. You are claiming they are not searchable... that is unacceptable IMHO. Moreover, tagwiki should not have a limit IMNSHO. Furthermore, there should be a more automated mechanism to put cws to tagwikis automatically if the content grows large rather than manually editing the content. But even then, I do not see why it would be material to voting. On the other hand, the whole tagwiki approval and editing story is weird, too, people can deal with them without much involvement in the tag... and so on. Commented May 11, 2014 at 21:56

4 Answers 4

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The High Council of the Lounge has gathered, and approves of the Wiki Lock on the C++ book question.

<'Lounge Approved' stamp>

Well, only 3 of us. But the idea of the wiki lock seems very appropriate.

I'll keep this answer pinned in the Lounge, so that any disapproval can be discussed in the comments here.

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    And to expand. Part of the problem with the C++ book question is that people keep trying to close and delete it. The wiki lock will solve that problem while still letting us keep it up to date. Likewise, it also purges that gigantic list of "answers".
    – Mysticial
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 0:48
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    The one-wiki-answer constraint makes most problems with list questions go away so I also like this approach. Such wiki questions are often useful, even if sometimes their content gets invalidated with time.
    – BartoszKP
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 11:05
  • It's a shame it can't be more like, top 3 answers or something for a little more variety
    – meer2kat
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 13:52
  • I wasn't in the lounge during the discussion, but I also approve of locking The One True Book List so that only high-rep users can adjust the answer(s). Not so sure if reducing to a single answer is best. Is there a way to link from the question to specific parts of an answer? If not, we should have separate segments (e.g. beginner vs expert vs intermediate) in multiple answers so they can be linked.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 15:44
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    For the record, we never really had a discussion. But I basically support this: after much deliberation, I've concluded that keeping it unlocked is not worthwhile. The list of what us "experts" consider to be "good books" doesn't often change, either. Ultimately, perhaps it's time to move the content. To, say, the Lounge wiki? This was never the right place for it (introducing: dead horse flogging, tonight only) - the only reason it was here was that it seemed more authoritative being on SO with a high score, which seems to be what it takes to convince people nowadays. Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 19:10
  • I'd just like to say that whatever prevents that question from being deleted (though that wouldn't happen in this case) will always get my support. In my mind, those questions have more value than treating them purely as a list of resources for one simple reason: recommendations from users on SO, to me, carry more weight than users of other websites recommending the same material. The reason I feel that way is because I've engaged with some of those posters on SO, so I value their opinions more highly than people I don't know. This particular question has been incredibly useful to me.
    – John H
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 20:03
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    I don't know why people that are not members of the High Council thought that they could take part in High Council discussions :P Commented Mar 15, 2014 at 15:28
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    @R.Martinho Who cares what you lounge youngsters all think? I approve of it, and that's what counts, no? :)
    – sbi
    Commented Mar 15, 2014 at 18:08
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    The answers on that question are literally irrelevant. Nuke everything, move the list to an answer, done. Commented Mar 15, 2014 at 18:53
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    @George Can we give the same wiki lock to this deleted clojure books question? It's already close to wiki format, and quite analogous to the C++ book question. When I flagged, a mod said "This has been deleted for a year and no one has missed it." Is there a certain popularity threshold that prevents this question from qualifying for a wiki-lock? Commented May 12, 2014 at 3:31
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The thing I don't like about this approach is that all the context about why to use one or the other item on the list is gone with the deleted answers. (I have enough rep to see them, but most users won't.)

So for a newbie, all this question does is provide a list that is now less useful than googling.

Personally, I'd like to read why someone is recommending Boost over ACE over POCO. Yes it might be only a preference, but it's quite possible that it was based on real experience.

But even if the majority here are of the mindset that none of the other answers and comments have value because they are merely 'opinion', you have thrown away the only form of 'opinion' that SO universally agrees upon: votes. Isn't the vote order of the deleted questions meaningful?

For example, why is ACE 2nd on the community wiki list, but only 9th on the vote-ordered list?

Which brings up a possible drawback of the wiki: I can edit it to feature my favored solution, even if it was the least popular of the original solutions.

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    I understand what you are saying about popularity vs 'goodness', but I still think votes have some meaning. Perhaps POCO is not better than ACE, but the fact that it got 5.5X the votes suggests to me that I should look at it first - It's probably not bad, and it's probably decently well supported. I don't think it's good to hide that information from most users. (These libraries are just examples -- I have no personal experience with or connection to either of these)
    – AShelly
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 14:34
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Then by that definition the Programming Jargon question should come back since it's actually a programming culture artifact by now and has been linked and relinked and has really spread a lot of those terms around.

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  • That's exactly what I was referring to (ie using your approach). But from my experience that "question" is now a substantial contribution to hacker culture it should be an exception regardless. There are lots of dead links out there because of it, and at least here stuff like "no pokemon exception handling", "use egyptian braces", "don't use yoda conditions" has become common place in code reviews and emails etc. And yes, it didn't really belong on SO in the first place.
    – Sled
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 14:34
  • 3
    Book recommendations are far more important than programming jargon wankery. Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 19:30
  • Oh the jargon list should never have been on StackOverflow but it was and it became a thing and a phenomenon. I'm not arguing that we should allow more like it, or that it is a good example or anything but that it became a cultural artifact and should be preserved as such.
    – Sled
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 19:49
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I think the better solution is to provide a way to ask not-real-questions, rather than only trying to forbid them.

Some of the questions exists because for many of them, SO is the closest place to discuss such topic.

In another word, they ask questions not because what SO is, but because who the SO-ers are. This is not what SO meant to be, but doesn't mean that they meant to abuse.

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    Just because it is not meant as abuse does not mean it should be welcomed. Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 12:46
  • @Dennis Jaheruddin : Just because it should not be welcomed for now, doesn't mean the people evil. They need to be helped.
    – RnMss
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 12:50
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    Helping everyone who struggles with things is also a nobel goal, but it is not the goal that SO has set for itself. Check the second paragraph of the help for example, and you see what SO hopes to offer to the world. It seems like you want SO to change its scope. I won't Judge your intention but would like to point out that your suggestion is not in the scope of this question. Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 12:57
  • I think that to some extent SO will become whatever SOers want it to become. The more a person participates, the more say they have in that direction. If people ask questions that are currently off topic, but get good answers, then eventually that type of question will be seen as on-topic. (to the delight of some and utter frustration to others.)
    – TecBrat
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 13:05
  • @DennisJaheruddin : I did mean no offense, but this is not my point. What I'm talking about is to find a way to make questions go to the right place so that there doesn't need to be the rift. Not whether they deserve the help.
    – RnMss
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 13:18
  • @Dennis: Do you have a citation for the Nobel Prize Committee that says that's one of their goals? ;)
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 15:46
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    I think there are lots of people out there that need help programming... and there presence repulses experts who can help with more advanced problems. A question posted on SO should first and foremost benefit the community and then the asker IMHO. Otherwise it'll decay into homeworkhelp.com
    – Sled
    Commented Mar 14, 2014 at 19:53

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