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Compare your reaction to reading each of:
"Your code is flawed because you ..." and
"The presented code is flawed because it ...".


A suggestion that might reduce hurt feelings (and possibly retain more SO users):

Add an acceptable and neutral version of the following proposed guideline to the
How do I ask a good question?,
How do I write a good answer? and
Expected Behavior pages of the Help Center:

Each of us values our own work as a demonstration of our aptitude, ability and sometimes creativity.
However, identifying personally with a work binds the person submitting the work to the content of that work that is being exposed to a public arena.
All parties are advised to make every effort to write in a "neutral voice" about the work.
Preference the use of neutral language such as "this code ..." over "my code ..." or "your code ...".
The matter being discussed is the work, not the person behind the work.

Possibly an improved version of this could be added as a "reminder" integrated into the Question submission form, the Answer composition window and as a "grey-ish" reminder in each Comment entry box.

Depersonalising submissions may help take some of the perceived toxicity out of the rough-and-tumble that is social media leading to a more professional ambiance.


(I am in-no-way "married-to" the text proposed above. Should this proposal meet with general approval, a follow-up question on SO-Meta could solicit far better expressions of the intent from the community's true wordsmiths.)


And, whether-or-not this is enacted: On the Help Center's page: "How do I write a good answer?",
please correct the ungrammatical
"...because of helpful people like yourself..."
with
"...because of helpful people like you..."
in the page's second sentence.


Demonstration:
Following are two purposely selected snippets from two posts within the current "most recently active" Q&A on the main site:

Q: "I am having trouble accepting input from a text file. My program is supposed to..."
A: "Normally, you'd use something like %4c or %4s to read..."

It is not the coder writing this program or post who is failing to accept input from a text file.

One of innumerable alternative and less personal versions of this exchange:

Q: "This program is not accepting input from a text file as needed. It is supposed to..."
A: "Normally, something like %4c or %4s is used to read..."


Collective vs. Individual:
Time and again it has been pointed-out, here on SO-Meta, that Stack Overflow "questions" and "answers" are intended to be useful to any future reader seeking a solution to a problem.

The meat-in-the-sandwich (if you will) is the problem and its solution(s).

This proposal, if its intention were accepted, improved-upon and enacted, may help shift the balance of content toward impersonal Q&A that the OP and any future readers, irrespective of an individual's sensitivities, would find useful. Use of a "neutral voice" would seek to acknowledge this objective. In fulfilling the SO mission, the asker and answerer(s) are of secondary importance.

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    Very few people would care. A lot take almost any critique (or anything they perceive as critique) to be bad. I've had my comments asking for explanation flagged as unfriendly. I only know that because a mod commented for the poster to stop doing that.
    – VLAZ
    Commented May 16 at 6:34
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    @VLAZ Re: "perceive as critique" True. Having raised two kids through adolescence, wisdom gained is that ANYTHING that can reduce the temperature in certain relationships is a "GOOD THING!!" :-) Re: seemingly unjustified "flagging"... See "adolescence" above. :-) One does what one can do. Cheers! :-)
    – Fe2O3
    Commented May 16 at 6:41
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    Most askers already come to SO with the assumption we are "toxic" and "elitist" because they heard it someplace else. I don't think you can affect perception when they are already predisposed against us. Commented May 16 at 7:02
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    @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica If it's true that "What goes up must come down", then it is conceivable that "What goes down must come up." I wasn't there, but I gather that the SO universe started out with a great deal of positivity and excitement. This 20 min song tells of one man's journey and ends with a proposal of how to make the world a better place. "The longest journey begins with taking the first step". Cheers!
    – Fe2O3
    Commented May 16 at 7:11
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    @Cuzy - "Most" can refer to anything from 50.01% to 99.99% of askers, where one's one perception will color how they understand "most". I think you can divine what I mean when I say "most" askers :( - There's no return on investment here as far as I'm concerned. Commented May 16 at 7:17
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    @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica It's certainly up to the individual to choose how to live. One can stand up and be counted, or one can simply shrug, "go with the flow" and forfeit any rights or "say" about where that flow takes one... No compulsion here...
    – Fe2O3
    Commented May 16 at 7:26
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    "and possibly retain more SO users" - ask yourself: what is an "SO user" ? Even people who do not have a user account are. Because the main usage of Stack Overflow is to be in the top X search results of your favorite search engine. Stack Overflow is a true weed like that, you are retained whether you want to or not. Even when you have your account deleted to stick it to the man - sorry. You're a member for the lifetime of the site. You are not going anywhere soldier.
    – Gimby
    Commented May 16 at 8:47
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    @Fe2O3 Don't let it get you down. A policy (hard or soft) of this nature might seem like folly, but it's better if even a few people follow it. The post got my +1, at any rate.
    – TylerH
    Commented May 16 at 15:00
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    No. I will not have my speech/text managed by others. If some user wishes to take offense, it's their problem. If SO tried to make it my problem, I would just ignore the attempt. If SO tried to enforce compelled speech, eg. by suspensions, fine - I don't care. Commented May 16 at 15:49
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    It is the "toxicity" of Stack Overflow that makes it work. You can trust the content because the bad content was driven off the site or downvoted so heavily that only a fellow idiot would miss the signal and attempt to use the content. That said, many of us could word things more carefully, and the folks that still flip out... <expletive deleted> them. You can't help everybody. Commented May 16 at 17:52
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    Depersonalizing is a good idea, I thank you for bringing it up. I'll try to remember this in my site commentary. Commented May 16 at 19:01
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    Funny how 'respect' only seems to flow one way. Yes, I completely reject the idea of having my speech managed, and I accept that others may disagree. The big difference is that I am making MY views clear, but not trying to enforce them on anyone else. Also, isn't it odd that 'respect' is so often demanded one-way? Commented May 17 at 3:03
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    Just to note: I fully agree with the sentiment here. Text should be written as impersonal as possible. Outside of meta and comments I prefer to write as if I'm writing a wiki article, neutrality is key. But alas. Human beings will do human things. So as much as I like the suggestion, its no more than a quaint discussion. It won't ever be practice. It will only get worse as people get more and more conditioned through living online.
    – Gimby
    Commented May 17 at 9:32
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    Why would I want to accommodate unreasonable people? If I wrote the code, and it is flawed, then "Your code is flawed" accurately describes the situation. The important part is what's after "because", and as long as it is correct and objective, then the only person I could possibly be angry is myself for mucking up.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented May 17 at 13:44
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    Well, it's your choice... No compulsion around here... passive-aggressive tone that implies the opposite of what you wrote. You are weakening your own arguments. Commented May 17 at 17:23

1 Answer 1

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I think two years ago my face would go red out of embarrassment if someone pointed out an issue with my code in an answer post of mine. Not that it's happened to me recently, but I wager if it did, nowadays I wouldn't be that bothered by it. If my code in my answer has a problem, I just fix the problem. I can't really speak for people who post questions. The vast majority of my questions are self-answered. There have been times I make really stupid math issues in meta discussions, and that still embarrasses me (but I deserve that)

I do sort of like the idea you're getting at because

  • I do agree that there are real, effective techniques for softening words for the receiver, and this is one of them.
  • Ideally, our knowledgebase is abstracted away from specific people (focusing on the question instead), and this seems to align with that idea.

The reason you're getting downvotes here is probably at least in part because of your title. Perceived hostility and accommodating for how people (particularly new askers) receive feedback on this platform is a touchy subject, and one that often attracts poor ideas.

I do like the idea. And I think it'd be great for people who have their own common copy-paste comments to initiate discussions on meta workshopping their stuff to be softer for the receiver. It'd even be great if the community manager team could help in those kinds of workshopping discussions. But that's up to people whether they want to solicit that discussion on their own comment templates. We can't force people to ask for that advice (generally, we can only flag comments that are actually a violation of the CoC).

... I just don't think it's super realistic to turn this level of wording into a rule (which I know you aren't suggesting). As a guideline (which you are suggesting), maybe. But it'd be working against a lot of momentum that exists in how people talk to each other.

Speaking honestly, (real recent example- multiple occasions) when I see someone turn up with a question about a (JSON) config file not working, and their JSON is invalid/malformed, I sigh and comment "you JSON is invalid. fix your JSON". Yes, it's curt. Yes, it's blunt. I really want that person to consider whether they want to put more effort into experimenting/playing with their problem / looking at the signals their tools give them before spending their time and asking for other peoples' time- especially for what seems like a really basic, unhelpful problem probably lacking in long-term value. Maybe that's why I want to say "your JSON is invalid" instead of "this JSON is invalid". I kind of hope some introspection happens (or maybe I'm just trying to find an excuse for how I express my exasperation).

What we already have is a Code of Conduct that requires us to be respectful and kind, and "your code has X problem" doesn't violate that rule.

Also, I'm digressing now, but if only we (in practice) systematically held people asking questions to an analogous level of expectation on abstracting their questions away from localized ("personal") issues (which, for example, you can do by following the instructions on creating an MRE).

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    Beautiful post! Thank you for this. Re: "Getting the JSON message through the thick skull of the recipient." Understood, and... let's exchange tales over a beer, sometime!! :-) IF it is possible to turn things around and retain the inaugural "value" of the site, remedies (in 2024) have to be proposed, considered and, if judged worthy of trial, enacted... Adding the proposed paragraph to the 3 pages (maybe the 3 "entry" locations, too) just might be a tiny step in a positive direction. (I'd rather my ~22 months of contributions weren't simply "shredded" before the SO lights go off.)
    – Fe2O3
    Commented May 16 at 7:54
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    Making a sweeping statement (for which I've only "anecdotal" evidence), through my little window of SO I mostly see "newbies" asking "junior level" questions; rare are complex problems from 'pro's because a 'pro's are what they are because they enjoy working out things for themselves. Newbies are the tabula rasa, and will be shaped by their experience. Mentors should/could/must present their "professional" approach to those they interact with... In theory, anyway... It will be what we, the community, make it. If "toxic" is chosen, then best close the doors now... I hope not...
    – Fe2O3
    Commented May 16 at 8:07
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    Re: "face would go red ... if someone pointed out an issue with my code" Live long enough and you'll discover that the finger that is pointing is connected to (usually) 3 others pointing in the opposite direction... Not one of us is infallible... Try to not savour excessively the schadenfreude of finding the lurking problems in the code of those who take delight in finding problems in yours. "Too err is human" Welcome to the human race!! :-)
    – Fe2O3
    Commented May 16 at 8:21
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    Making mistakes is not embarrassing, it is beautiful. It is the ideal environment for learning something. Not wanting to admit that you made a mistake - now that's embarrassing.
    – Gimby
    Commented May 16 at 12:52
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    The downside of abstracting the person in favour of the content is the person starts to feel marginalized. Like they don't matter. And they don't, not here anyway, and no matter which way you cut it, that stings. Side note: When I see a question about JSON, I start looking for stop-motion skeletons. Commented May 16 at 18:00
  • @user4581301 +1 for "skeletons" :-) Re: "marginalized" At the other extreme we find names like Monroe, Hendrix and Jackson; individuals transformed through living as caricatures or even grotesques of their Art, shaped by public opinion. (Even Elvis, perhaps. Nice boy, it's said, but otherwise zero on my personal Richter scale. :-) This proposal is nothing more than suggesting a way that Hell might drop its temperature 1-2°.
    – Fe2O3
    Commented May 16 at 19:23

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