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This is a formal proposal and request that the rate-limiting be changed, so that users with less than 125 reputation do not need to wait 30 minutes between posting answers.

For most of the lifetime of the site, users with less than 125 reputation were required to wait 3 minutes between posting answers, to discourage rapid-fire low-quality answers. Then, in December 2022, this cool-down period was increased from 3 minutes to 30 minutes, because of the flood of ChatGPT answers. The rate-limit has not been changed since then.

I propose that the cool-down period be returned to the original 3 minutes.

I'm expecting to get roasted for this, so I hope you'll hear me out. December 2022 was a very difficult time, with a flood of ChatGPT-generated answers. At the time, emergency action was sorely needed. But I think circumstances have changed enough since December 2022 that perhaps the rate-limit can be returned to its original 3 minutes between answers. I think this might be helpful for the many new users who are trying to help others, and help retain them. I'm concerned that the current rate-limiting might be driving away some legitimate users. I also think it might be a better experiment to try than other proposals that have been suggested for increasing engagement. I'm sure there will be negative effects (increased spam, GenAI-generated answers), but I expect there will also be positive effects (not driving away valuable contributors), and I suspect the positive effects might outweigh the negative effects. So, to me, this change seems worth giving a try, and monitoring to see how it works out.

As the help article says, "This waiting period is currently set at 30 minutes" (notice "currently"), and the original announcement says "This is our attempt to bring quick help to the moderator team and is subject to review for efficacy." I take those as indicators that the current limit is not set in stone, and it was anticipated from the start that there might come a time when it's reasonable to reconsider the limit. Now that time has passed, I think it's time to reconsider that limit.

Related: Why is a new contributor limited in all the things?

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  • 10
    Is it possible to add other heuristics? Answering close to 20 questions in an hour becomes a lot more suspicious when those questions are on a wide range of topics (i.e. tags). Commented Mar 4 at 7:13
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    I still have pending AI content flags going back to December of last year, is the system really ready for this?
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Mar 4 at 8:36
  • 34
    Not to mention, what sort of legitimate answer can you put together in under 3 minutes? That's not even enough to do a proper check for duplicates.
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Mar 4 at 8:37
  • 2
    How many users post an answer which is ultimately well received (say, no net downvotes) and then hit the rate limit on their next answer? You'd think that that statistic would exist.
    – tgdavies
    Commented Mar 4 at 11:29
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    @chivracq I disagree, for let's say 80% of questions not needing closure for unclear/need improvment in chef tag for exemple, my experience is enough that I can write by memory a correct answer in at most 5 mins. I suspect that's true in most language for 90% of SO question by SME. And I'm eluding the case wher there's a dupe already existing. Questions needing to repro/search/test are kinda rare gems nowadays. If there's newcomers with SME throttled this is something to address, but I'd prefer to have even a raw indicator of this happening before giving more timespan to spammers/LQA.
    – Tensibai
    Commented Mar 4 at 13:11
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    @Tensibai That's much less likely for a new user though. And I'd guess a pretty large chunk of those 5 minute answers you are making are actually duplicates anyway. Commented Mar 4 at 15:26
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    @Charlieface You can check my records for how often I did answer a question ending closed as duplicate. Yes newcomers are more likely to answer dupes indeed. Hence my position of trying to get numbers of newcomers being pushed off by the 30 mins limit actually before moving it, I.e: is there really a problem to solve by changing that ? My point was more that a SME newcomer to SO may not need 30 mins to write an answer at all, but I also doubt the limit would be a deterrent for such a person
    – Tensibai
    Commented Mar 4 at 15:50
  • @Tensibai 6 out of 562 apparently, so yeah not many data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/edit/1822735 Commented Mar 4 at 16:29
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    I'll admit I don't know what magical combination of reputation and waiting period is just right, but I do not believe anybody of the proper temperament has been driven away by the 30-minute waiting period. I'm OK with experimenting with other values though. But note also that the Gen AI problem may come back again strongly with Gemini and others entering the fray. Commented Mar 4 at 17:57
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    @PresidentJamesK.Polk it never went away. I think a year ago we were a bit unsure of what would happen later, and how exactly to tackle the problem long-term. now we have a framework of how to deal with it, and since have done quite a bit of work in figuring out how to detect it. most people in the detection WG don't think the problem will ever completely go away, and I (personally) actually think there are pros and cons balancing out the choice to go back to the 3 minute rate-limit.
    – starball
    Commented Mar 4 at 18:40

4 Answers 4

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Let's set the delay to 10 minutes

I support moving away from the current 30 minutes limit, but I believe 3 minutes is too low. I find it hard to believe that a user posting legitimate answers would need such a short rate limit in order to feel engaged.

My reasoning is:

  • we want to foster thoughtful and well-written responses instead of "Fastest Guns In The West". A user who takes the time to thoroughly read a question and write up a decent, useful answer reasonably needs more than 3 minutes. Therefore, reducing the limit to 3 minutes would not improve how they engage with the platform.

  • 3 minutes is still too short to effectively discourage users who post cheap LLM-generated content. From empirical observation, I assume that on average it takes about a few minutes to copy-paste text in and out of an LLM interface, especially when either or both the input and output text needs to be manually edited, thus staying very close to the 3 minutes limit. In such a scenario, a user limited to 3 minutes between each answer might barely notice it.

A 10-minute delay would help to reduce the artificial barrier to participation that legitimate new users face, and at the same time would not suddenly remove the defence we have against rapid-fire LLM posting.

If we find positive signals here, we can consider further lowering the rate limit.

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  • That's what I thought the moment I read the title. While keeping an open mind, at the end, my stance didn't change (tl;dr: One of my recent answers was to a plotting question about setting limits of axes when using a certain library. I had the answer right away (this package implicitly flips the coords, hence if you want to change the limits for x-axis, you should use ylim function). But to post a quality answer, with nice formatting and maybe including an example, I needed at least 10 minutes). I support this proposal.
    – M--
    Commented Mar 4 at 4:41
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    While I understand the reasoning here, one of the major benefits of changing it back to 3 minutes is that we would be able to directly see how much, if any, contribution the current 30 minute delay is having on the rate of engagement decline, as that change is a direct reversal of the 2022-12 change. That change in the rate of engagement decline was the entire reason for the company to be majorly concerned about the moderation of generative AI content, resulting in all of the crap we went through with SE stomping on genAI policy and the resulting moderator strike.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 4 at 5:17
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    If we change to some other value without first going back to 3 minutes for a notable amount of time, then the potential data is much more subject to interpretation. While I'm not against also getting data at 10 minutes, and even, perhaps, having that as the eventual number which is used long term, I think it much more likely that we end up with SE going ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if we move from 30 minutes to 10 minutes.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 4 at 5:19
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    This answer doesn't make sense, at all. The delay was 3 minutes, then increased to 30 minutes. The question asks to have it returned to 3 minutes, it doesn't ask to set it to any other arbitrary number of minutes between 3 and 30. Why 10? Why not 11? 21? -3? You either argue why the limit needs to stay at 30 minutes (aka don't change, which is what your answer is basically advocates for) or you support going back to the default of 3 minutes. Don't pretend some other magic number gives you actually insights which dynamics are at play in the engagement figures.
    – rene
    Commented Mar 4 at 8:10
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    @rene I believe that the answer does make sense. The question is: "should we do X?". This answer says "no, but we could do Y instead". Why wouldn't such an answer be logical and useful in this context? Since when does a yes/no question bind answerers to simply answer "yes" or "no"?
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 4 at 8:47
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    Sorry, I really don't see how the 30 minute limit poses any significant "barrier to participation". To get the necessary rep to get out of it, the user needs 5 answers decent enough to get a single upvote and accept. So that's something over 2.5 hours, if you want to speedrun it. What's the big deal? Are we still aiming for quality here?
    – Dan Mašek
    Commented Mar 4 at 9:44
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    Although I think it might be OK to change it, I can't fathom how anyone writing quality answers would need less than 30 minutes between posting answers. Finding a good question to answer takes time, checking if it isn't a duplicate takes time, writing the answer takes time... Commented Mar 4 at 11:22
  • @DanMašek We are aiming to "addict" new users to finding unanswered questions and answering them (ie, "fun"), during which time they get better at answering questions. If new users posts are not at or above the quality of the average post on SE, that is ideal, because we also expect users to improve the quality of their posts as they make posts. If we cut off below-average initial contributions, we are discouraging new contributors more than we should and more than is needed to maintain quality. Commented Mar 4 at 15:28
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    @Makyen If for the entire lifetime of the site we were on a 3 minute delay for new users, why would we need to return to 3 minutes to collect data? Is there a reason data for this can't be collected from prior to November 22 to compare against? Wasn't that already done by the company? If we already know how 3min and 30 minutes work, wouldn't it make sense to try something in-between to collect a different data point?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 4 at 15:51
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    @KevinB Nov/Dec 2022 was when ChatGPT was published/publicized. So data from before then is not indicative of the problem the change was intended to solve. The question here is whether, now that the 'it's shiny and new and easy' AI content rush has subsided, if we revert the change, will we see the same additional influx of bad genAI content that we saw at the end of 2022.
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 4 at 19:07
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    @Dan Mašek: Agreed. Something ought to be done to counter the negative effects of FGITW instead. It was the original killer feature of Stack Overflow, but we are long past that; only about 20% of posted questions get an answer (within the first 24 hours (where almost all of the attention is)) and most questioners don't respond to comments (they just blindly post a question and harvest the answers hours or days later without giving anything back). I think they can wait a few more minutes for an answer. Commented Mar 4 at 19:19
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    @KevinB Because SE has dismissed the 30 minute rate limit as a cause for the reduced engagement which they are concerned about. IMO, and the opinion of others, based on non-public data from SE, including pre-2022-11, it is causative, at least to a significant extent. It may not be everything, but it's definitely affecting the "# of users who posted 3 or more answers per week" number which SE has been quite concerned about. Without additional data, which will be clearest if we return to a 3 minute delay between answers, there's no way to be sure.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 5 at 18:11
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Let's return the delay to 3 minutes and see what happens (i.e., let's test it)

I support making this change, at least as a test to see if the restriction which was put in place in December 2022 is still needed. At that time, the goal was to prevent the large influx of low reputation users posting using the brand new ChatGPT capability which was getting quite a bit of publicity and lots of people were looking at it, wanting to try it out, and also seeing it as "free rep on SO". The change was not intended to be kept forever, but only as long as it was needed. While generative AI is still a major issue, it's no longer "new".

The reality is that we don't know:

  • If we still need the currently increased delay between answering in order to be able the handle the moderation load.
  • What impact the increased delay between answering has on the participation of newer, legitimate users who are not using generative AI to compose posts. I could certainly understand if the enforced delay between answers results in at least some of them leaving and not continuing to participate.

Why 3 minutes

  • 3 minutes gives us the best data to compare engagement numbers. The entire genAI policy debacle, which resulted in the 2023 moderation strike, was because the company was massively concerned about an increased rate of reduction in engagement, to the point that they were very concerned for the survival of the company/site. Going back to 3 minutes allows the easiest comparison between the change in engagement numbers which happened at that time and a new change. See "GPT on the platform: Data, actions, and outcomes" for the data which Stack Exchange provided regarding the change in engagement during that time.
  • 3 minutes is what it is on every other SE site.
  • 3 minutes is what it was through the vast majority of the existence of Stack Overflow.

At a minimum, we should attempt to find out that information by changing the delay between answers back to 3 minutes and seeing what happens. It's an easy change, so if bad things start happening which we can't handle, it should be fairly easy to just change it back to 30 minutes.

Disclosure: I proposed to SE returning this delay between answering for users with < 125 reputation to 3 minutes back in early June 2023 as a potential partial mitigation of the declining answer rate that is seen in "GPT on the platform: Data, actions, and outcomes". Obviously, SE chose not to try returning it to 3 minutes at that time, nor at any point since then.

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    Trying it out to see what the effects are makes a lot of sense to me!
    – D.W.
    Commented Mar 4 at 2:55
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    Is there an autoflag for rapid streaks of answers from the same account? And if not, maybe there is some sense in FRing it instead of this hard limit of 30 minutes?
    – markalex
    Commented Mar 4 at 3:09
  • @markalex the closest one is 'too many answers (auto)—"more than 10 answers posted in 7 days"', far from being considered "rapid" (ref: Why are there automatic moderator flags (autoflags) from the Community User, and what are they for?)
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Mar 4 at 5:19
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    @AndrewT. I believe that flag gets raised when more than 10 answers in 7 days get posted to the same question, not by the same user. I don't think there is any auto-flag about a single user's answering patterns.
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Mar 4 at 5:49
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    @markalex I agree with blackgreen, I'm unaware of any autoflag which would be triggered. IIRC, we did propose, back in 2022, that an autoflag for rapid streaks of answers be created. As I recall, SE felt changing the enforced delay between answering to 30 minutes was easier. In addition, I expect that we are very unlikely to get SE to devote the developer resources needed to add an additional type of autoflag.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 4 at 5:57
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    This is the only sensible thing to do so we can collect new data on engagement numbers and come up with well founded reasoning what the delay should be, if at all. Give it 6 to 8 weeks.
    – rene
    Commented Mar 4 at 8:13
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    I like most arguments here but I'm really skeptical about the point of comparing then and now. The situations have changed completely, so forcing a comparison is inviting all sorts of arbitrary effects that are not related. This is going to proof nothing. Even if nothing changes in behaviour (i.e. "it wasn't the fault of the limit") this does not proof that the temporary longer limit did not permanently harm engagement. Commented Mar 4 at 9:59
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    I was in favor of this rollback in June, and I an still in favor. We are already flooded with AI answers, so preventing a few more will not help much. Now, when we also have AI warning banner on the answer, the restriction is no longer "the only" thing we have.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Mar 4 at 10:21
  • Hum, I have/had DV'ed your Proposition while I actually like the idea of the "Test", well!, if it's just for a few days, I would say... I think after 3 days max, you'll be convinced that 3-min delay is way too short and a lot more of 'ChatGPT' Answers will be posted... But if that's what you need to be convinced, then why not...! // [I waited too long to be able to retract my DW, I'll "need" an Edit to the Post/Answer...]
    – chivracq
    Commented Mar 4 at 10:24
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    I was against lowering this time at first without any indicator this was really putting off people giving quality answers, but your answer make sense, you convinced me a test run would be manageable.
    – Tensibai
    Commented Mar 4 at 13:16
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    I would support returning it to 3 if and only if a CM is on stand-by to turn it back up to 30 the moment a mod pings them in the TL or somewhere to do so because they noticed an issue. If we turn it back to 3 minutes, and it turns out there's a real problem that it solved, I have a suspicion the company would drag their feet either intentionally or unintentionally, because "hey, participation spiked! the change was good!"
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 4 at 19:03
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Keep the existing 30-minute delay.

Quality answers require spending at least 30 minutes on them!:

  1. Checking for duplicate(s). (5–10 minutes)
  2. Writing. (10 minutes - 3 hours)
  3. Testing. (10 minutes - 10 hours)
  4. Checking the post/answer for typos, grammar, layout, code formatting/highlighting before posting.
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    I disagree with the motivation. My minimum threshold of time taken to write an answer is not 30 minutes. Some questions are just simple to answer in few words. Combined with searching for duplicate targets, I'd say my minimum time to answer is probably 5mins.
    – starball
    Commented Mar 4 at 10:21
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    Yeah, but @starball, you are running for Mod, you have 30k-Rep, you have nearly 2k Answers, you have your Gold Badge in your main Tag, you are not the average User with <125-Rep this Thread is about... // I'm also an SME in the small Tag I answer and I only need 5-sec (not 5-min!) from reading the Title + the first 3 lines (and the general layout) of a Question to know if it's a Duplicate on 'SO' and if I can answer it... But writing my Answer will still take me at least 30-min, and probably much more... (for Testing)... // But different times for different Tags probably...
    – chivracq
    Commented Mar 4 at 10:44
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    @chivracq most of the other edits involve removing cases of non-proper nouns being capitalized, I’m not sure why you would want those rolled back. There’s a couple instances where the phrasing changed, you could also just add a new edit to undo those changes if you really want Commented Mar 4 at 11:07
  • @fyrepenguin, yeah-yeah, I speak very proper English, it's annoying to have some other User edit your Post because they don't like the cAsInG... I'm pretty sure if I went checking their Posts I would find 200 typos or inconsistent "typings"/"casings" in less than 10 min...) // But OK, I've simplified my Post/Answer, removing all explanation for my Answer/Reasoning... (I added some times though...) // I'll delete my Answer if it gets again edited and I don't like the Edit, as I didn't find a way to roll-back an Edit...
    – chivracq
    Commented Mar 4 at 11:47
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    @chivracq: Annoying? I absolutely love it when other users fix problems with my answers. If I could, I would transfer reputation points to them. Commented Mar 4 at 18:02
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    @PresidentJamesK.Polk Well, you can always go find a good question or answer of theirs to upvote...
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 4 at 19:04
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    While I'm sympathetic to this position, I think the bullet points are not indicative of very many users. I would suggest 99% of answerers (or more) don't ever do #1, or #3, or either of them. And many don't do #4, either. Regardless of their reputation. In fact probably 90% of the answers by one of the top 3 users on the site, rep-wise, are on duplicate questions.
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 4 at 19:05
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    If a question can be answered quickly it is probably not of much value. If it's really a simple matter then it will probably come up again and again such that there should be a canonical duplicate; and those are worth putting time into, even for simple problems. Every competent Python programmer should understand the basic rules of indentation, but look how much work has gone into explaining them. Commented Mar 4 at 21:33
  • This checklist would certainly apply to (answers to) questions that are actually useful. Any question that it doesn't apply to... is a duplicate. But we don't want to admit that, because searching for duplicates is boring and doesn't give you reputation points like a quick answer would.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 6 at 9:25
-43

Let’s keep the 3 minute delay, and allow new users to comment before answering a question

As a new user, I wish to support the 3-minute time interval. Because, myself as an example, I have less than 50 points which makes me unable to ask questions in a comment for a question that I have interest in answering, while this is possible for other users with over 50 points in reputation.

As a result, I may post an answer which (due to inability to previously clarify in comments) is likely to need more versions or updates within shorter time periods.

Since I cannot make these updates in comments, or edit easily because there might be more conversations already, then it might be fair for me to be able to post another answer without waiting too long. Thus, I think within 3 minutes wait time is helpful.

I understand those who disagree may have reasons related to checking for duplicate(s), writing, testing, etc... My question is if the user (new user) had a chance to clarify or ask enough questions from the comments, could this help them post more cleaner responses? Such that there is less need for checking duplicates, typos, etc.

Finally, whether this 3-minute delay is accepted, I wish to propose for new users to not be limited so much in comments. As it could help them post more useful answers as they get the chance to both clarify and interact with other users to be better informed before posting an answer.

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    answer posts are not for soliciting clarifications and more detail. you will have to wait and earn the privilege to comment like everyone else. I say this with the empathy of someone that was frustrated at it before. but I earned the privilege to comment eventually. even then, I don't see how changing this rate limit addresses the problem of dealing with unclear questions.
    – starball
    Commented Mar 4 at 9:50
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    You can suggest edits to get you to that 50 rep. Or in your case, it takes just 2 more upvotes on an answer... That 50 rep threshold is so low, it's really not a good reason to change the timeout.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Mar 4 at 9:50
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    Let's not have proposals that exchange one feature for the other. It is confusing at best. Don't assume every question is an opportunity to bring other pet-peeves to the table.
    – rene
    Commented Mar 4 at 9:56
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    Allowing comments for people with less than 50 rep is totally besides the point of this proposal. If you want to propose enabling comments for new users in a separate feature request, be prepared to answer how you plan to deal with the inevitable spam problem.
    – BDL
    Commented Mar 4 at 9:59
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    Nah..., I've downvoted your Proposition because I don't support the 3-min delay, I prefer the 30-min delay like explained in my Answer in this current Thread... // One thing I support though, is that the 50-Rep Limit for Comments is way to high... Like I mentioned in my Answer, I joined 'SO' as an Answerer, and had in my begin time on 'SO; several times to "misuse" the 'Answer' input-field just to be able to ask for clarification about Environment or Version before being able to answer the Question... // 'SO' is designed for Askers anyway, not for Answerers...
    – chivracq
    Commented Mar 4 at 10:05
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    There is already an answer that supports the proposal. The only new thing this answer brings to the table is a misguided and unrelated FR, which muddle the waters. This is better deleted, to keep the discussion focused on the subject at hand.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 5 at 9:40
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    As @starball mentioned, I understand your frustration with not being able to post comments requesting clarification on questions. You want to help; I get that. But please understand there are several reasons for this limitation, the most important of which is spam prevention. We get a lot of spam as it is in the form of questions and answers, but these are easily dealt with because any new answer or question shows up as "active" and is (usually) quickly and easily identified and nuked. We can't do the same for comments. On the bright side - It looks like you are just one point away! Commented Mar 6 at 13:54
  • thanks @NotTheDr01ds, I will start by saying I went silent because I have been roasted even more than the one who posted the question. But I didn't think it was such a bad idea. Though I am 1point away from 50, I still feel for other new users. Sometimes users need to clarify before posting, so they don't end us looking like spammers or creating confusing responses . I just hope someday it will be reconsidered Commented Mar 6 at 14:04

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