36

I have just been suspended from review because these Low quality posts audits:

enter image description here

In my opinion, both answers are "Looks OK" because they seem related to and answer the question. They also have example code and results, but I didn't know if these are promoting their library.

Before I posted this question, I knew both answers were spam because they were promoting their library without disclosure. I knew that after I saw the comments. But I didn't know that at the time I reviewed them because no comments were shown while reviewing the audit. So, I am just looked at the relation to the question. If the answer is not from creator of that library, I think it's not spam and not breaking SO rules. I am wondering:

Should I find the creator of every library that is shared by SO users in the review?

My conclusion is I am suspended because I did not click the link in the answer to find the creator of the library, without clicking the link, it's impossible to know who the creator is. And without know the creator, it's impossible to know that post is spam or not. Am I right?

34
  • 2
    I can't see answer because they are not showable by no-mod people
    – Elikill58
    Commented Oct 2, 2021 at 22:48
  • 25
    Very short information: Both are spam, but that's not as clear without the additional context which was visible at the time the posts were posted/handled. A significant portion of the context can be found on metasmoke here for the first one and here for the second. [This comment is primarily to save people some time in their investigations. It doesn't represent a resolution of the issue of the reviews and your review ban.]
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2021 at 23:04
  • 7
    Second review: The answer has absolutely nothing to do with the question. Question: Something about compressing big integers Answer: This is how you capitalize text in a list. According to the comments it seems to be part of a spam campaign promoting the linked site. First review: No clue why it was deleted.
    – BDL
    Commented Oct 2, 2021 at 23:04
  • 5
    I think you might be right about comments not being visible. If so, the 2nd answer at least is quite hard to spot as spam. The first one's not easy either.
    – cigien
    Commented Oct 2, 2021 at 23:04
  • 4
    @Elikill58 The first review was part of a spree of multiple identical answers posted in rapid succession (the latter 4 in 22 minutes, with the first one, making 5, in < 60 minutes), each recommending/promoting something the user authored without disclosing that affiliation. That's spam. Even one would have, technically, fit SE's definition of spam. If it had been only one such answer, or even a couple, rather than multiple at an increasing pace, then it's likely that the user would have just been informed of the requirements and asked to edit in disclosure (with one eventually left undeleted).
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2021 at 23:26
  • 2
    @nbk I knew that after I saw the comments, but in review audit no comment shown. I just want to know the answer to my question, Should I find the creator of every library that is shared by SO users in review audit? Commented Oct 3, 2021 at 8:17
  • 9
    Think of the review suspension as a holiday. Reviewing is work.. and you do it for free.
    – Scratte
    Commented Oct 3, 2021 at 8:31
  • 3
    @Scratte Nice! Where are we going for holiday this year?
    – rene
    Commented Oct 3, 2021 at 8:59
  • 11
    The lesson here is: be extremely skeptical of any answer providing a link that's not to the official documentation, especially those linking to non-official docs (why would one do that? Are the official docs so terrible? Is this question so broad it can only be answered with an offsite article -> should get closed?) or recommending tools/libraries (there's a reason we disallow tool/library requests, consider checking the question and voting to close if it asks for that)
    – Erik A
    Commented Oct 3, 2021 at 11:28
  • 8
    Those reviews are very tricky and I strongly oppose banning as thes are very hard to see. But don't worry almost all people got banned , so take you time and forget it
    – nbk
    Commented Oct 3, 2021 at 12:52
  • 4
    @gnat I think real spam should not flagged as low quality answer. It's directly to the mod right? Commented Oct 3, 2021 at 15:03
  • 2
    @MuhammadDyasYaskur score of spam typically pushes it into LQP queue, even if it is not flagged
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 3, 2021 at 15:39
  • 2
    @gnat As far as I remember, I have never seen real spam in LQP queue. The auto spam detecting system always fails me. But in other queue I found many, I flagged more than 30 spam post. Commented Oct 3, 2021 at 20:24
  • 3
    I don't understand what the question asked in the title has to do with problem discussed in the question body. No one's asking you to contact anyone. All you needed to do was open the question in another tab, note the answer was deleted, and take the appropriate action. Or skip it, which is always a fine action to take when you aren't given enough information to be sure. Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 15:38
  • 8
    @HereticMonkey OP is asking if there is an expectation for them to look up the author of any library mentioned in an answer to make sure the answer author is not the same as the library author (in order to determine if the answer is spam, e.g. undisclosed affiliation). The answers here were deleted as spam due to them including a library written by the answer author, and no affiliation was disclosed. Were the answer written by anyone else, it would be a perfectly fine answer, and thus not a spam-deleted post, meaning OP's "looks OK" review wouldn't have gotten them review-banned.
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 15:42

2 Answers 2

10

This is why I am so against having extra friction to allow reviewers have the necessary context to review answers. Context here being the question asked and other answers. As BDL points out in comments, that answer has nothing to do with the question and should be deleted even if it was not spam.

Secondly, this queue is horrible to evaluate spam. If spammers passed through the first post queues, all bets are off by that time, and the only ways that posts arrive there are via delete flags (NAA/VLQ) and for algorithmic decisions of the system. Recommending deletion on this queue is the wrong action and spam would never reach this queue naturally.

18
  • The Low Quality Posts queue already provides users with the context you're talking about; there are header options (e.g. tabs) to view the question as well as any other answers in the queue.
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 15:44
  • @TylerH that's 1 click too much. We already have 1 click too much in the first post queues and this was the result. I know that I suck at UX, but even I see the issue with introducing friction.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 17:41
  • 1 click to swap between questions and answers is not "too much". Showing all the content on the page at once would be a far worse outcome and would miss the entire point of having a focused review queue for specific posts in the first place.
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 17:57
  • @TylerH apparently nobody told you about dark patterns, then. SE itself practices it, where the accept all cookies is just 1 click away (and probably the most selected option), meanwhile custom is >1 click away. This is basic UX. You want to motivate your users to do something, you agresively remove any barrier. 1 click barrier to do a sensible review, something that is regarded as a chore by default, is 1 click too much.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 18:00
  • 1
    displaying answers in-line along with a question that's being reviewed can negatively skew results. People post guesses all the time at unclear questions, that doesn't make them not unclear. None of this would help solve the issue at hand here anyway.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 18:14
  • 1
    @Braiam putting alternate views behind a tabbed view is not a "dark pattern". There's no trickery involved here. You go to the queue to review low quality answers, and you should expect to see the answer you are reviewing. You can see additional context if you want, by clicking a button to swap views to the question or to other answers. Absolutely nothing deceitful or wrong with that workflow.
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 18:16
  • 2
    it's just yet another case of poorly chosen audits. Moderator actioned posts should never be audits, neither should posts that were HNQ'd or otherwise were highly popular, as all of those things skew results in unpredictable ways. I've somewhat lost hope in anything being done about it, given how long it's been this way with these known issues.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 18:20
  • @KevinB it's not just a poorly chosen audits. Those post should never ever be used as audits. You don't have the tooling for dealing with spam on that queue. That's accurately poorly made rules for issuing audits for that queue. I've issued a bug report as you can see on the link of my answer.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 23:32
  • 1
    Re "that answer has nothing to do with the question and should be deleted even if it was not spam.": It is an answer, and I have had flags declined because of that. The official stance on that subject from SO seems to be to downvote it only, which is stupid imho, but still how the moderation system seems to work :|
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 8:08
  • @Sumurai8 and I'm sad for that. There was a proposal that would have fixed that, but flubbed. The help center itself specifically calls out for those answers to be deleted "answers that do not attempt to answer the question asked"
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 11:48
  • @Scratte that comment doesn't further the discussion, what does it has to do that it is bolded or not? Have you not using bolded for bringing attention to a particular word or phrase?
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 11:58
  • The help center says "answers that do not attempt to answer the question asked". There's a typo. It's suppose to say "answers that do not attempt to answer any question that can be asked". And.. that's all. This is the canonical: When to flag an answer as “not an answer”. Whatever opinion people have on it is just an opinion, it doesn't matter if they put it on bold or not.
    – Scratte
    Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 12:06
  • @Scratte no, it's not a typo. Shog itself clarified that it should "address the problem being asked about". You are just pushing your own biases into it rather than what the designers tried to convey.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 12:40
  • @Scratte also, I don't know if you noticed, but there are hundreds of sites on the network. SO is an outlier here with that interpretation. Moderators on other sites have specifically called out SO moderators on these issues
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 12:48
  • 1
    That's the network canonical. On Stack Overflow oranges are applies too :)
    – Scratte
    Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 12:51
2

No, you should not find the creator of every library that is shared by SO users in the review.

Luckily, no one is expecting you to. The purpose of audits is to check if you're paying minimal attention. In this case, "minimal attention" is paid when you open the post in a new tab/window. You would have been able to tell then that the answer had been deleted and thus "Looks OK" was the incorrect choice.

  • Is this a great user experience? No.
  • Is it worth banning people from reviewing? Meh. The ban isn't that long and honestly, you're being banned from doing volunteer drudgery. There are points of view where getting banned isn't such a bad thing.
  • Is it worth getting upset about? Probably not. Take a walk. Read a book. Find some interesting path down Wikipedia to get lost on for a while.

Everything will still be here when you get back. In fact, I'm guessing there will be a few thousand more questions, many more in the queue, just waiting for someone to take care of them.

14
  • 15
    Being banned is a feature! Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 17:00
  • 1
    I'm not sure How should I get started reviewing the Late Answers and First Questions/ Answers Queues? agrees with you. "Looks mostly OK, but has a link to a site that's not well-known, or that allows user content (like GitHub, Blogspot, YouTube, etc): ... Check the link carefully ... check the author's profile and see if they're self-promoting..."
    – Scratte
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 17:16
  • 1
    @Scratte How does that disagree with "you should not find the creator of every library that is shared by SO users in the review"? But I do disagree with "Check the link carefully"; there is no reason reviewers should expose themselves to any site on the internet other than Stack Overflow, and perhaps sites needed for researching issues before asking or answering. Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 17:38
  • I find it disagrees because the reason we review is to be sure that the post is fine. It's not fine if it's self-promoting, and the only place to systematically check posts is by putting them into review and then actually review them. Not just do a quick scan of them.
    – Scratte
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 17:55
  • 9
    Telling someone to take a walk is pretty condescending Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 19:44
  • 3
    some have said that walking has health benefits
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 19:49
  • 1
    @TankorSmash for those already prepared to be condescended to, perhaps. Otherwise, it's as condescending as "downvote and move on". Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 19:51
  • 3
    @KennyEvitt "Being banned is a feature!" — That is some dystopian stuff right there. ;-)
    – M. Justin
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 19:59
  • 14
    I really don't like the argument that you could have gotten the answer right by discovering that the post was an audit. You should be able to get the answer right by properly reviewing the post. People shouldn't be expected to open every post in a new tab to check if it's an audit, because that doesn't help correctly review non-audits.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 20:51
  • @RyanM exactly, the queue is supposed to present you every piece of context to make sure you do a sensible and expedite review. Reviewing is already a chore, we shouldn't make it more so.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 4, 2021 at 23:39
  • 3
    ""minimal attention" is paid when you open the post in a new tab/window" I guess most reviewers don't pay minimal attention. To get them all, we should have more such audits. Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 8:14
  • @RyanM Write an answer to the question that doesn't suggest that then. People seem to have little problem sniping others' answers but big problems putting their names on their own answers. Commented Oct 5, 2021 at 12:58
  • @HereticMonkey I think that is covered under the "allow reviewers have the necessary context to review answers".
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 6, 2021 at 17:42
  • @Braiam I think that is covered under "Is this a great user experience? No." My answer is what can be done now to forestall review bans now for reviewers now. Not what should be done under some mythical benevolent corporate overseer that's going to listen to the people who actually make their site work rather than the people who just want to make money this quarter. Commented Oct 6, 2021 at 17:55

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .