33

Recently I faced two cases in the "First posts" review queue where the answer (the post which needs a review) was containing only code. But the problem is that this code was literally copied from the question and the answerer did not even change any character. In the first case, I flagged the post as spam because I thought this will be the best decision but the flag has been declined. In the second case, I flagged the post as a very low-quality post but it was declined as well as the first one.

What should I do to remove these useless posts?

Here are links to the posts that my flags has been declined:

27
  • 17
    "In the first case I flaged this post as a spam" it's not spam. It's not advertising anything.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 9:40
  • 7
    Well, then I ask what do I do. Which flag should I use to make this post deleted? I guess you agree that this answer should be deleted.
    – blazej
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 9:41
  • 2
    Downvote (optionally comment) and move on. Simples. Flagging is not required.
    – Paulie_D
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 9:41
  • 7
    "Not an answer" seems applicable. You can most definitely downvote the answers as not useful, as well.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 9:42
  • 9
    "Not an Answer" is unlikely to be accepted as a flag. It IS an answer, just not a good one.
    – Paulie_D
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 9:43
  • 28
    @Paulie_D the flag description says "does not attempt to answer the question" and indeed it doesn't. It's not a "bad" answer as much as no answer at all.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 9:46
  • 4
    @VLAZ It may be an Answer to some post.. which on Stack Overflow makes it an attempt to answer. Perhaps raising an "in need of moderator intervention" flag and explain that it's a pure copy of the code in the Question is the best bet for handling it?
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 9:50
  • 21
    @VLAZ It's definitely not an answer and there's no question about that. However, it is quite likely that a mod will decline the flag because it looks like an answer.
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 10:40
  • 22
    So, you finally found the conundrum. You found a post that deserves deletion but you don't have any tooling that allows you to signal other users to actually delete it. On any other site, any flag would have deleted this, because a moderator or user would try to figure out why this answer was flagged and see that it's exactly the same content as the question and recognize that this post should be deleted. But on SO, any post with the most superficial resemblance to anything that could be an answer wouldn't get deleted without 20k users picking the slack.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 13:33
  • 7
    @Braiam There's a good reason for this. Flagging this "Not an Answer" and letting moderators make guesses as to why it was flagged wastes a lot of time. There's no reason why the flagger should withhold the information that they gained. No reason why they don't raise a custom flag and explain what they know.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 15:17
  • 4
    Flagging as "not an answer" is possible, but you should leave a comment first to explain why the answer post is bad. Then the reviewers can take that comment into consideration.
    – Tom
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 15:27
  • 2
    @VLAZ: Good point, we should really get SO to change the wording on those flags based on how mods handle them in practice: if something even looks like it might be an answer to some question, that's the wrong flag, and it would be less frustrating if the wording reflected that. Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 16:17
  • 5
    @Scratte well, then leave those posts to the reviewers to handle them without intervention. They are many more and only need to handle at most 40 posts. Or lets get more moderators. Someone flag shouldn't be declined if the post needs deletion. Because at the end, what message are we sending? That we allow crap on the site?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 18:02
  • 2
    @Braiam There's a message in When to flag an answer as “not an answer”. It's loud and very clear. Trying to change that by bending the rules isn't going to make things better. Let Subject Matters Experts decide what to delete in case there's confusion, or raise a custom moderator flag.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 17, 2021 at 18:16
  • 3
    @Scratte Guess what, basic usability doesn't care that "it only takes a minute". If an action takes one more click than it needs, a vast majority of users are not going to do it, simple as that. Which means garbage that should be getting flagged isn't getting flagged, which means it's not getting removed, which is an abject failure on every conceivable level.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 16:00

3 Answers 3

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The easiest option when faced with this kind of answer is to simply downvote the answer. This is a good signal to future readers that the answer is not useful. You could also optionally leave a comment stating that the answer simply repeats the code in the question.

I would agree that the answer is useless enough that it should be removed from the site, even though it's not causing any harm per se. If you have the privilege to delete answers (and it's negatively scored, which is almost certainly the case), go ahead and cast a delete vote. The answer will probably show up in the 10k tools, where other users may cast a delete vote as well.

You could ask a moderator to delete it, by raising a flag. Note that none of the standard flags apply here; it's definitely not spam (or R/A), it's not VLQ, and it's not NAA (it's definitely an answer, just a useless one), which are the usual flags used for removing content. Raising a custom flag saying "The answer repeats exactly the code in the question, and adds nothing new. It should be deleted", has a reasonable chance of being accepted, although moderators generally prefer not to have to intervene in cases where the community can deal with it.

If you want to increase the chances that the answer is deleted by the community, you could post a del-pls in the SOCVR chat room. Make sure to read the FAQ, which has guidance on when, and how, requests should be posted.

7
  • 5
    not causing any harm per se - if it's dissuading people from even looking at the question (e.g i prioritize "0 answer unanswered" over "1 answer unanswered" on the dashboard) then i'd say it could be considered harmful
    – Caius Jard
    Commented Jul 18, 2021 at 13:02
  • 4
    Why not NAA? Certainly "repeating the question" counts as "not attempting to answer the question", right? Commented Jul 18, 2021 at 16:14
  • 8
    @TheDIMMReaper Yes, but it requires looking at the question to know that the answer is repeating the code in the question. Do not raise a NAA flag if it requires looking at the question to assess that an answer is, in fact, not an answer.
    – cigien
    Commented Jul 18, 2021 at 16:54
  • I would add a comment (I believe mods can read) explaining why I flagged it and flag as NAA. Without comment it's indeed hard to judge, I've seen many "Try this" answers consisting of dozens lines of code copied from the question and then a tiny change in one line.
    – jps
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 9:15
  • @jps No, that's not going to work either, since mods don't generally read comments at all when evaluating NAA flags. In fact, AFAIK, the only context that mods are guaranteed to have when evaluating NAA is other flags on the answer. You might want to take a look at this recent meta about NAA flags that was answered by a mod, which should address some of your concerns.
    – cigien
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 12:38
  • @cigien A copy/paste section of the question with no changes is "obviously irrelevant to the question". Determining it is NAA requires zero domain specific knowledge. It would require reading the reason why it is NAA, which is apparently behind the moderator's time budget for handling NAA flags. Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 15:40
  • 1
    @Yakk-AdamNevraumont I never claimed that any domain specific knowledge is required, I'm only claiming that the question needs to be read to determine if the answer is a copy-paste of the question, and that's not something mods are in the habit of doing when handling NAA flags. There's very good reasons BTW for why NAAs need to be obvious; if mods have to evaluate NAAs thoroughly by looking at all the context, there would be no way of clearing the NAA flag queue, which is much worse.
    – cigien
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 15:43
2

The problem is that the usage guidance around the "not an answer" flag is pants-on-head retarded.

What a reasonable person would do is look at a so-called "answer", see it's evidently not an answer to the question posed, and click the flag, at which point they're presented with this dialog:

enter image description here

And hey, guess what, there's a convenient option that says "not an answer" right there, and its flavour text says exactly what the problem is:

This was posted as an answer, but it does not attempt to answer the question. It should possibly be an edit, a comment, another question, or deleted altogether.

So a reasonable person will select that option, click the "flag answer" button, go on their merry way thinking they've done their good deed for the day... and a few hours later, get a notice that their flag has been declined.

That is not reasonable in any way shape or form. The user followed the instructions given to them by the system to curate content, and the system rejected them when they helped.

Forget about non-confrontational language and correct pronoun use - if anything on Stack Overflow contradicts the "be nice" ethos, it's this absolutely shameful situation of people trying to be helpful, and being told their help is not wanted.

The sad part is that, despite the recurring questions on this insanity on Meta, users - including many longstanding ones - just take it for granted that the system is broken and don't bother explaining that, instead focusing on telling incredulous users "this is insane, but you should just get used to it".

The meta questions generated by the Not An Answer flag are an X-Y problem if I've ever seen one. When are we going to focus on the X instead of the Y? When are we going to accept that being nice to users starts with making a logical system?

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  • 2
    This is a valid point, but as I mentioned in a comment to you on the question, this should be a separate Meta post, right? I mean, this isn't even answering the OP's question; at no point did they raise a NAA flag that got declined. You could literally lift this into its own question about how NAA flags are handled, and you would be able to get responses there. (Also, you might want to suggest concrete fixes for the problem).
    – cigien
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 16:51
  • 1
    Forget about non-confrontational language and correct pronoun use - if anything on Stack Overflow contradicts the "be nice" ethos, it's this absolutely shameful situation of people trying to be helpful, and being told their help is not wanted. ---> Declining flags is not rude in any way. I find this answer to not answer the question and it is also written as a rant. This is simply a rant about something you are frustrated about and doesn't actually address the specific question at hand.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 17:40
-1

It is obviously not a spam. It is just non-answer. Copying back exactly the same code of the question, without any text, obviously does not qualify as "attempt to answer".

Note, even if the code is not exactly the same, but there is no textual reply, the answer almost surely qualifies as VLQ.

Spam would require advertisement. It is not advertisement, only crap.

The difference is the input we give to possible anti-spam algorithms, and that the OP deserves -100 or not.

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  • 3
    Not spam in the strictest sense, but can easily be part of spamming. Many spammers these days are aware that brand-new accounts attract more scrutiny and try to circumvent that by starting out with a few non-advertising posts. In some cases they'll go back and edit the spam in later, since a late edit often gets less scrutiny than the original answer.
    – G_B
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 1:07
  • @GeoffreyBrent Wow, it is very "funny"! Well, another threat: maybe editing spam into the posts of others, would likely result that they get the -100 and not the spammer.
    – peterh
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 8:25
  • 2
    @peterh a spammer would hardly get the 2000 rep required to be able to freely edit other peoples posts.
    – jps
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 9:20
  • @GeoffreyBrent Wow, tricky guys! That charcoal thing is not so bad idea.
    – peterh
    Commented Jul 19, 2021 at 11:28

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