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Trivial, but annoying, issue I found while trying to exercise the Gold dupehammer.

There is a question, Group by first column and append cells from second column, which is a clear duplicate of Pandas groupby result into multiple columns.

They are dups to extent that not only are they asking to achieve the same result, but also improve performance on existing attempts. As such, it is a benefit to have one marked as a duplicate of the other.

The first question was tagged [python-3.x] but not [python]. So I added the [python] tag via an edit, again an improvement. But then when I try to use the Gold dup hammer I am told that I cannot close as I've participated in editing the tag for the question.

Note I don't have a Gold badge in [python-3.x], so I could not have closed it before the edit.

Where it's just a matter of version-specific versus generic tag, can this safeguard be dropped?

Update: the question has now been closed (albeit after an answer was provided, then deleted). This may be the meta effect, but the question still stands.

One solution could be to have a hierarchy of tags which, in my mind, is a good idea anyway to add structure to SO. For example, a Gold badge holder in [python] should be able to Close [python-2.7] and [python-3.x] questions.

Or, better, force all [python-XY] posts to also have [python].

This isn't the first time I have faced this issue.

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    And that's why I've always been against version tags... makes everything that depends on tags much more annoying to deal with.
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 10:02
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    @Braiam, I think version tags are OK if they are part of a tree / hierarchy. I believe all posts marked [python-3.x] must automatically be marked [python]. This would be possible to force/implement if a hierarchy structure existed.
    – jpp
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 10:03
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    "if they are part of a tree / hierarchy" and that's where everything falls apart: tags are flat by definition. They will always be flat. The are also context free. That's why a tag has to carry all the meaning on its own and have no relationship one with another. Also because such thing would be quite complicated and complex to carry out by developers and the community alike.
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 10:55
  • I've implemented hierarchies in the past, they can be simplified. Why should a [python] responder not see [python-3.x] questions?
    – jpp
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 11:10
  • I think hierarchies, like some kind of tree or ontology, would be totally non-trivial to implement for tags as a whole Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 15:07
  • relevant: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/265844/… Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 15:07
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    @Chris_Rands, when I say hierarchy it doesn't have to be for front-end / comprehensive. Groupings could simply be used to implement logic you suggested in linked post: "I was wondering if specific tags like python-2.6 could automatically have added the more generic tag like python, this would save some manual re-tagging." This solves many problems simultaneously.
    – jpp
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 15:10
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    Yah I do like the auto-tagging idea in theory at least... Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 15:47
  • Are you saying you can't close the question at all or just that you don't have a binding close vote?
    – DavidG
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 18:10
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    @DavidG, can't close as dup, can't vote for dup.
    – jpp
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 18:19
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    Related: A proposal for tag hierarchy on Stack Exchange sites Commented Mar 24, 2018 at 7:06
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    If you remove the tag, you can actually non-hammer it. Discussed in TNB.
    – user202729
    Commented Mar 25, 2018 at 11:50

1 Answer 1

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This safeguard is there for a good reason...

I could add a tag to a question and then take the dupe-hammer out. Even if this tag was unrelated...

Therefore to inhibit misuse you may not change the tag and immediately close a question.

The feature request should be more to have related tags, that means if you have a gold badge for [python] this also holds true for subtags as [python-3.x]. But this could lead to other problems (e.g. what subtags are OK and what not).

So I think this is a useful restriction.

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    Appreciate the answer, and it's a valid concern. The subtag idea could work: in most cases, it's patently clear what's intrinsically linked and what's not. In my opinion, there should be a tag hierarchy; if anything, this would also add more structure to SO.
    – jpp
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 9:43
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    @jpp. I think it's a mistake to hold out for a tag hierarchy - it really distracts from the central point of your question, which is specifically about the relationship between versioned tags and their corresponding generic tag. The [python] tag is a superset of the [python-3.x] and [python-2.7] tags. It would be really useful if the latter two tags automatically implied the presence of the first one, so that it wouldn't have to be explicitly added.
    – ekhumoro
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 19:08
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    @ekhumoro I think that is exactly right! It's not just about closing/dupe hammering either, it's about increasing the visibility of questions Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 19:38
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    @Chris_Rands. Yes, I think the question would be much better framed in that way. Really, the dupe-hammer issue is a side-effect of versioned tags not working in the right way. They should work like partial tag-synonyms. Or in file-system terms, something like symbolic links.
    – ekhumoro
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 19:52
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    @ekhumoro. "The [python] tag is a superset of the [python-3.x] and [python-2.7] tags." -> To me, this is a hierarchy! Call it what you want, there is a parent and children. All the other comments are also correct - there are added benefits in terms of question visibility.
    – jpp
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 21:57
  • @jpp I think the distinction is that version tags are much more specific and clearly defined, for example one could also make a hierarchy of [dynamic-typing] to [python] to [django], but I would not link the tags necessarily Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 22:11
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    @jpp. I would say the relationship is a very simple orthogonal one that only applies to versioned tags with a well-established link to a generic tag. Attempting to extend it beyond that would very likely become completely unmanageable.
    – ekhumoro
    Commented Mar 23, 2018 at 22:56

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