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As a semi-retired fellow who answers questions on a website, and hacks on open source projects...I have still at times thought "hey maybe it would be fun to work in an office and sit around and do things with other nerds again." (Well, I get nostalgic sometimes.)

But given that most of what I have these last years is sporadic consulting and answering esoteric questions on the Internet, it's comforting to imagine that Stack Overflow has my back to say "yeah, this guy still codes and learns, even if it's in JavaScript". Apparently I have no shame.

Yet it seems if I click the "Apply Now" link on anything here, 9 times out of 10 it takes you off site. I don't usually see employers that pique my interest much, but there was a link for a job at SpaceX--y'know, those folks who landed a reusable rocket on a small ship in the ocean. Yet the link took you to some job-placement-conglomerate site (didn't even end in spacex.com), where Stack Overflow wasn't mentioned in their list of 30 "where did you hear of this job" choices.

Researching and clicking further, it seems to me that's most of the listings now--unless you have a so-called "Easy Apply".

Well, I feel dumb for filling out that developer story thing. I'm kind of looking for collaborators who aren't going to make me figure out how to produce a Word .DOC file, and sadly that's what the SpaceX situation was...not so future-ific. If employers aren't going to respect the work people do as volunteers here--or the existence of Stack Overflow--I don't see how it's part of the "Stack Overflow jobs" network.

While I recognize that institutions have processes, and they may not consider it worth their time to specialize that process for Stack Overflow candidates, it seems to me that level of indifference has a more appropriate venue: regular sidebar ads. Click, go off-site. If Stack Overflow jobs is going to be special, it should be because the people engaging it recognize that participation and reputation on Stack Overflow is meaningful.

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    Hey, I got an idea! Let's make boiler-room recruiting agencies better! Seriously, the only way to slow down recruiting shenanigans is to increase the price of the job feature with the hope of keeping out volume-driven shops who don't bother to learn about how it works. Other than that ... recruiters will be recruiters. Doesn't make it fun.
    – O. Jones
    Oct 28, 2017 at 10:44
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    @O.Jones I guess I like my idea...realistic. If you don't want to involve your HR department or recruiting cycle with management of understanding what a "developer story" or "SO rep" or "users reached" is...or what StackOverflow is, buy an ordinary ad. Click on ad, go offsite. Seems easy. I don't think the cost needs to be different, just the nature of the engagement. Oct 28, 2017 at 11:16
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    I don't think I've ever clicked a job ad on this site, but if I did and shared your experience I'd be very surprised and disappointed. I'd always assumed the SO jobs feature was an involved manual process between the advertiser and SO. I very much encourage debate on the matter +1
    – Darren H
    Oct 28, 2017 at 19:21
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    A DOC file, really? Someone wants to not have a PDF? Oct 30, 2017 at 6:49
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    @ThomasWeller To be completely accurate, the options were PDF and DOC. But either way the point is more about Stack Overflow's currency of reputation and developer story being not part of the process, having to make a file of some kind, and as I said there were plenty of "Where did you hear of this job" options in a combo box--but Stack Overflow was not one of them. Oct 30, 2017 at 6:52
  • @HostileFork: someone was probably faster ordering at SO than adapting all the cases. It happened to me personally. We advertised on Azubiyo but forgot to add that option. Luckily we recognized that in our review process - but it was too late for ~10 applicants. Oct 30, 2017 at 6:57
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    @ThomasWeller too many employers only accept DOC, for programming jobs. There it goes my LaTeX fancy CV, take this word with a bad table Oct 30, 2017 at 13:55
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    All the jobs that don't have an easy apply are complete GARBAGE period. This is a good indicator of somewhere you do not want to work. This is an indicator of a company that doesn't dab with technology much. This is an indication of a confusing environment where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Good luck.
    – JonH
    Oct 30, 2017 at 14:05
  • @ThomasWeller PDF is not really a format designed for data exchange (it's designed as an end-result copy for reading and printing, full stop), regardless of what Adobe is trying to make it look. I would expect ODF in more forward-looking institutions... Oct 31, 2017 at 3:34
  • @ivan_pozdeev: ODF looks different in every application I open it with. Not very good for a standard. But ok, I do accept it for applications. Oct 31, 2017 at 13:22

2 Answers 2

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HR employees are not developers. I have made the proposal to advertise on SO for my last employer. The HR department didn't even understand the concept. They looked at the site and said: "These are all questions about things I don't understand. When I do a search, no job advertisements are in the result list."

They can write Word documents and publish them as a PDF on sites like Monster, Stepstone or similar. They also didn't understand the concept of pay per view. Usually they pay per month.

And now you're asking them to create a webpage, probably in Markdown, which is something they've never heard of as well.

Based on my personal experience (which is not statistically significant), it's totally clear that this concept will not work and the HR department feels better when they have their old, safe and comfortable position like they learned it in university.

Regarding that combo box, someone was probably faster ordering at SO than adapting all the cases. It happened to me personally. In my new company we started advertising on Azubiyo but forgot to add that option. Luckily we recognized that in our review process - but it was too late for ~10 applicants, they could only choose "other".

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    How do companies "skip" on that? It's someone's job. If he/she cannot perform correctly why is it still working in that role? If I were to now know my job I would expect to be fired.
    – CodeSmith
    Oct 30, 2017 at 14:09
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    Lol, who told you HR went to university??
    – Travis J
    Oct 30, 2017 at 21:50
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    @TravisJ Actually if you want to work in HR at least a BA is almost always required and in many cases MA.(at least in my country)
    – Oleg
    Oct 30, 2017 at 23:50
  • +1000. Such a crystal clear exposition. Oct 31, 2017 at 3:38
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    Indeed this answer boils down to saying that people at HR refuse to do their job well even after being advised how to do so. Oct 31, 2017 at 12:55
  • @TravisJ: well, they have a Bachelor's degree. In my country you need to go to University for that. Oct 31, 2017 at 13:12
  • @TomášZato: "being advised how to do so" - by whom? Because there's a SO page explaining how to write Markdown? Because there's a page which explains the concept? If you know that it takes roughly 2 months to hire a developer, how many page impressions should you buy? How will you know if that's more expensive or less expensive than a 2 month advertisement on Monster? And how do you ensure that you have budget for that? Oct 31, 2017 at 13:15
  • Not saying you're wrong...note I said "I recognize that institutions have processes" but I also said "If Stack Overflow jobs is going to be special, it should be because the people engaging it recognize that participation and reputation on Stack Overflow is meaningful." @JonH makes the extreme statement that any job without an Easy Apply--e.g. you can't be evaluated on developer story cred--is garbage. I'm not being that hard line, I think it's fine for SO to show ordinary ads for any job/company, but the "SO jobs experience" should be a unique entry point with a kind of default respect. Nov 1, 2017 at 8:28
17

Stack Overflow could improve this situation by promoting the value of an on-site application process to employers.

I have the impression that salary ranges are far more prevalent in job listings on SO than those in other locations. Perhaps this is because when an employer creates an ad, they see a message advising them that ads displaying salary receive X-times more responses than those without salaries.

Why not do something similar with on-site application? It's hard to gather statistics about what happens once candidates leave SO, but with a little work and thinking, they might be able to come up with some convincing facts.

Another thought: Why do employers do this? Perhaps they want all applicant data, statistics, etc in their own database to re-use or analyse long-term. A more "out-there" idea would be to publish an API which lets employers pull down data from the SO application process into their own system.

The ultimate aim of an employer/recruiter is to actually hire good people, not to put people through a special process, so essentially the pitch should be catered to that.

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    I like the part on advising employers to have an on-site form. Yet the API part: I am not comfortable with that at all! I don't want my profile to be easily mined and transferred to some private DB out there.
    – Shai
    Oct 30, 2017 at 6:33
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    In Germany, that long term data analysis and API idea isn't even allowed. You may not gather personal data and you have to delete personal data when you rejected the candidate. Oct 30, 2017 at 6:41
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    Both comments seem to have understood this answer differently to me. It doesn't mention anything about personal data. It specifically says application data. This, to me, means the information the user has entered on the application forms, not their profile
    – Darren H
    Oct 31, 2017 at 5:08

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