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I posted these comments on a recent Stack Overflow Question:

I still fear that your question is too broad, that you may be coming here too early. If this were my project, I'd try to decompose the larger problem into much smaller steps, and then try to solve each single step, sometimes in isolation of complex enough, and then once all solved, putting them together into the program. This way if I still am stuck, I can come here with a much more specific and answerable question along with pertinent test code.

Note that in my experience this site is much better at helping fix implementation questions rather than design questions, since the latter tend to be very broad questions. The exception is when the design questions are very specific, and then they may get answered.

Regardless of the comments, I feel that the question is quite a bit over-broad, and needs to be made much more specific, but what I wonder is were my comments inappropriate about design questions in general, especially the second comment? Or is this question over-broad?

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    "how would I get started or what would I be looking to do?" Definitely too broad. Your first comment is great. Your second comment is less helpful because (I suspect) this user doesn't know what design even is. Commented Oct 24, 2015 at 20:13
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    recommended reading: Where to start?
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 24, 2015 at 20:17
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    The link that gnat posted recommends chat. I second this. I feel the best way to go about these kind of questions is informal talking. I feel like the fact that stack overflow bans these questions is honestly it's greatest strength and weakness at the same time.
    – Dair
    Commented Oct 24, 2015 at 21:47
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    @gnat: Maybe it could be an answer here. I often wanted to ask off topic questions but refrained and just tried googling. I only recently unterstood the full SE network, and first time I saw the advice for chat, I looked into SO chat, did not find where I should ask and passed my way... Unsure if it is nice to instruct beginners about the Whiteboard, because it could generate higher traffic, But I'm pretty sure that a lot of SO users are not aware of it. Commented Oct 25, 2015 at 9:54
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    @SergeBallesta yeah most reasoning over there is general enough to apply, I am only unsure about the part about concrete chat room, it seems to be specific to Programmers.SE
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 25, 2015 at 10:37
  • Thanks for all the helpful comments! @SergeBallesta: I never knew about the Whiteboard and will definitely check it out. Commented Oct 25, 2015 at 13:04
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    I also recommend this answer to another meta question about closing as "too broad". Commented Oct 26, 2015 at 5:40
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    If you have a specific design question Programmers.SE is actually a good choice, but if it's a broad design question they'll flag it as too broad over there as well.
    – JNYRanger
    Commented Oct 26, 2015 at 13:10
  • @SergeBallesta I found a generalised version of that post at MSE and copied it into the answer over here
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 26, 2015 at 21:55
  • I think the stackoverflow chatrooms (chat.stackoverflow.com) should be promoted more - for people just searching for a point to start at or people that just can't find their bug. It's not the questioner's fault that no one tells them where to ask this stuff (instead of where not to after they already have). Commented Jan 9, 2023 at 0:42

3 Answers 3

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My favorite reference on “how would I get started” questions is Where to start? at Programmers meta, reposting its slightly rephrased version from MSE here for your convenience.


The "where do I start?" question has several issues with it that make it a poor question to ask. It is unclear what the level of knowledge of the asker is, has too many possible answers, and ultimately doesn't have a clear problem defined.

Unclear

Let's head over to Seasoned Advice (Cooking Stack Exchange) and think about a hypothetical question to ask there.

I want to learn how to bake a cake? Where should I start?

A person attempting to answer this question doesn't know what your skill level is. Do you know how to read a recipe? Can you operate an oven without supervision? Are you trying to make a simple pound cake or are you attempting to make a multi layer red velvet cheesecake with frosting from scratch that should match something from pinterest?

Without this knowledge of where the OP is at, the person attempting to answer is either going to engage in a hopelessly long series of comments trying to find out the level, or is going to take a shot in the dark and probably not answer the question satisfactorily for the person asking it, or the next person viewing the page from a google search.

Too Broad

Back to programming as the idiom and away from cakes.

The next part of the problem is that there are numerous approaches to learning a language or projects one can do. There are an unprecedented number of different things one can do to start. Dozens of programming challenges out on the web that can be good starting points for programming (search for them) and hundreds of open source projects that are out there that are at an appropriate level for someone learning (no, don't tackle trying to do something huge, but find a nice little utility that could do with some additional functionality).

Such questions have people leaving short answers that are little more to a link. Stack Exchange works very poorly as a link aggregator - if you are looking for that type of answer, look to link aggregators instead.

No Clear Problem

You have a problem - you don't know where to start with a design. But that isn't a clear problem. Are you stuck at the modeling of the data objects? At the structure of the classes and their responsibilities? trying to figure out how to use Spring or Rails or ${overly large library}? Is the ORM just not connecting to the right neurons in the brain?

All of these are part of the "I don't know where to start" set of problems. Obviously you have gotten to some point in the design. You want a program that can do X, Y, and Z. You've fired up the IDE and you've... this is where you need to describe what you have done, what you have thought of and where you are stuck.

You need to try something before you have a good question. The design from an enterprise coder could steer you into strange n-tier designs, while others are going to suggest strange metaprogramming idioms or sneak a monad into your design. These aren't wrong answers, but they may not be right for where you are at in your learning and figuring out the design.

Consider also, that the best way to figure out how to design something is to learn how to design something. For personal projects learning about how to do something, the paths down the wrong way, while discouraging, are some of the best learning experiences to be used in the next project. Be wary of the programming architect who has never designed a bad system, for when they do they won't know what to do at all.

Try Chat

If you have 20 rep (two up votes, one up vote and an accept on an answer, ten accepted edits or some combination of the previous), you can in the chat rooms. Chatroom regulars may be open to answering the questions that don't work well on the Q&A part of the site.

The advantage of chat for these type of questions is that we can engage in the dense back and forth that would otherwise be in comments to determine your skill level and also work through different problems. Remember though that chat is not a tutorial service despite how helpful people may be.

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That example: Definitely too broad.

Generally - if it's a "How would I do..." sort of question, it's too broad - barring exceptions where the task at hand is particularly specific, and there's a limited number of ways to approach it. "How would I concatenate two strings in $language" for example.

"How would I get started?" is also probably off topic as "recommend a tool/library ..." as well.

So yes - vote to close, move on. Comment if you wish. Usually I just direct the supplicant towards [ask] because that clarifies what is on topic at Stack Overflow.

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    [help/on-topic] is also a good one to use and looks like: help center
    – theB
    Commented Oct 25, 2015 at 14:55
  • So it's off-topic. But where would such questions be on-topic? Is there a Stack Exchange site that is a good fit? I usually recommend the project mailing lists. Commented Oct 27, 2015 at 11:59
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    Just because it's off topic here, doesn't mean it's on-topic anywhere :). (I might start with "PerlMonks" personally, as that's a forum, not a Q/A site)
    – Sobrique
    Commented Oct 27, 2015 at 12:01
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All such problems have an essential part. In most cases, it is well determined, clear and on-topic for anybody understanding the problem what the OP has really met.

You have to identify it, and your answer should target this essential part of the problem.

This concept works very well on the MathSE, and it resulted very good stats for the site. I suggest to follow it also here.

Note, such questions are not per definitonem homework (although probably a large part of them are), anyways it is not really relevant, what is the motive of the OP to ask the question. What here counts, if it passes the site rules or not.


For example, look the "classical" example: OP asks, "How can I write a web chat?".

  • The reflexive answer of our community is this: "It is too broad, go away".
  • The correct answer would be this: "First you should learn to program. Start googling for web-based programming languages for beginners... and start with anything, anywhere. You will face a huge mass of problems. Come with them back to us, we are waiting your questions."
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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jun 26, 2018 at 23:27

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