43

I didn't think it was possible, but we seem to be plumbing new depths in the quality of questions. Recent questions include one asking how to compare two values, and another asking how to find the first element of an array (the latter formulated as "how to remove the [] from around a value"); the latest one is how to find the third element of an array.

I'll downvote, of course, but these questions are so rudimentary that there are not even any duplicate targets to close them against. Any thoughts on how to handle these?

21
  • 26
    Downvote, walk away. And try not to be too depressed about the occasional upvote those questions are getting.
    – Pekka
    Commented Dec 3, 2016 at 7:19
  • 11
    Get rest. Keep a good sense of humor. Beg the powers that be for more delete votes (double them maybe). We can't even delete this stuff half the time.
    – Drew
    Commented Dec 3, 2016 at 7:57
  • 9
    Yeah, 2016 has sucked. It'll be over soon. The good news is, 'tis the season of eggnog!
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 3, 2016 at 8:02
  • 24
    If I ever turn into a full-on Conservative politically (however unlikely) it's going to have been largely due to Stack Overflow, and the powerless rage of seeing some twit upvote a "How to concatenate string in Javascript" type question because "everyone deserves help" or "we shouldn't be so elitist" or somesuch
    – Pekka
    Commented Dec 3, 2016 at 9:11
  • 12
    Do treat this as a solution instead of a problem. Honey-pot tags are great, they are very easy to filter. Add [javascript] to the Ignored Tags section of your profile. If necessary, add sub-tags like [node.js], [ember.js], etcetera to your preferred tags. Presto chango, you'll only have to look at questions from SO users that have learned the basics and know how to avoid the bozo tags. Commented Dec 3, 2016 at 9:34
  • 36
    I hope you told them both to use jQuery.
    – Shog9
    Commented Dec 3, 2016 at 19:22
  • 5
    @Shog9 Actually, one of the answers to the question I finally found about getting the first element of an array did suggest jQuery; apparently there's some $.first routine.
    – user663031
    Commented Dec 3, 2016 at 19:48
  • 6
    Of course. jQuery is really great and does all things.
    – Shog9
    Commented Dec 3, 2016 at 19:53
  • 2
    Related/duplicate: Question quality is dropping on Stack Overflow
    – Glorfindel
    Commented Dec 4, 2016 at 10:13
  • 2
    Ditto for the [Java] tag Commented Dec 4, 2016 at 16:19
  • 17
    Given that Stack Overflow "is a question and answer site for professional and enthusiast programmers" (stackoverflow.com/tour), I do - occasionally - wish we had a 'take a look at some existing documentation' close-vote. Commented Dec 4, 2016 at 17:29
  • 2
    some say we should be thanking Spolsky for that
    – gnat
    Commented Dec 4, 2016 at 21:34
  • 2
    "there are not even any duplicate targets" - If you answer them, you will have duplicate targets for next time. Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 0:46
  • 1
    I feel all sad and depressed after reading this Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 9:26
  • 2
    @IanKemp - The point of answering that appalling question is to let you quickly close similar appalling questions in the future. Dupehammer, let it get to a score of -3 or lower, then three 20kers can delete vote. The alternative is to wait for an appalling question to get five non-dupe close votes (and what reason would you select? remember, "no research" is a downvote reason, not a close reason), which takes a lot longer than a single hammering, allowing time for answers, which, when upvoted, make a question more difficult to delete. Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 10:41

3 Answers 3

23

You don't have to do anything, of course. But if you want to do something...

Constructive things to do

  • On those occasions you find yourself getting riled by it, walk away. Life is too short. Smell some roses. Take a walk. Read a poem.
  • Downvote if the question "does not show any research effort".
  • Post polite comments pointing out basic resources that are available such as MDN and SO's own documentation, and highlighting the search feature.
  • Closevote duplicates, targeting the best dupetarget you can find.
  • If closevoting a duplicate that would be trivial to find via SO's search, consider a polite comment describing how to use the search feature, perhaps linking to the search help.
  • Answer non-duplicates. SO's goal is to be a repository of programming knowledge. This means not just of the tricky stuff. "How do I access the contents of an array" could be a good question and an opportunity to talk about how arrays are zero-based so indexes go 0...length-1 (whereas humans tend to start counting with 1 instead), they have a length property, some are sparse, what happens if you try to access an entry that isn't there, etc., etc. Basic questions are not automatically bad questions. (Of course, these days, they are likely to be duplicates, although I'm surprised sometimes when I can't find a dupetarget for something basic.)
  • Post polite comments on answers to obviously-duplicate questions (after closevoting with a target) saying that we don't need yet another answer to the question.
  • Downvote answers that are poor or fail to answer the question, just like on other questions.
  • Upvote answers on questions that aren't obviously duplicates if they're clear and accurate, just like on other questions.

And again, you're not obligated to do anything.

Unconstructive things not to do

  • Downvote answers that answer the question correctly.
  • Berate or belittle the OP.
  • Get really unhappy or angry about it; again, when this happens, just walk away. (this one is difficult)

I note the tension between "Downvote if the question 'does not show any research effort'" and "Answer non-duplicates." I think this is a tension inherent in SO itself: It's meant to be a repository of programming knowledge, and yet, if you post on SO you're expected to have already searched other repositories of programming knowledge. In any case, I invoke Walt Whitman: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."

9
  • 2
    Thank you for these good suggestions. Actually, I do almost all of these things to the best of my ability already, with the possible exception of downvoting answers that answer the question correctly. I know opinions differ here, but I am of the opinion that answers to stupid and/or duplicate and/or useless questions, especially when they provide no added value, references, or supplementary explanation, are not useful, which is the definition of downvotable.
    – user663031
    Commented Dec 4, 2016 at 18:36
  • 5
    @torazaburo: I understand the impulse, and I used to give into it, but "not useful" is so vague as to be meaningless and can be used to justify just about anything. My cardinal downvote rule is "Don't downvote correct and clear answers" (with some wiggle room around some "me too" behavior). Downvoting a correct answer to a basic question is, in my view, a disservice to the community. It muddies the water. Is the answer incorrect? Or did the downvoter just have a problem with the question? So I firmly believe downvoting an answer because the question is flawed is actively unconstructive. Commented Dec 4, 2016 at 18:44
  • 2
    It seems odd to claim that "not useful" is meaninglessly vague, since it is the reason provided for downvoting, at least in the little balloon that pops up over the downvote button. It it is so vague, maybe we should change it. In any case, I think "correct and clear" is too weak. Simply responding arr[2] is correct and clear, but it lacks explanation or links etc. I also think that answerers have at least somewhat of an obligation to do dup-searches, and when they do not do so their answer is also almost inevitably duplicative, which makes it less useful in the overall scheme of things.
    – user663031
    Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 2:50
  • 1
    @torazaburo: I'm familiar with the origin of the quote. :-) And yes, it is meaninglessly vague, but I can't imagine it getting changed now. On the other, I'd argue that arr[2] is not clear. (What do I do with that? What does it mean? What does that 2 represent?) But it's all down to opinion and individual judgment. Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 7:49
  • How about changing it to "not too useful"? :-)
    – user663031
    Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 12:55
  • 1
    And here I thought you were going to quote Ralph Waldo Emerson.
    – user663031
    Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 12:59
  • @torazaburo: "Not too useful" :-D Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 13:32
  • "whereas humans tend to start counting with 1 instead" TIL I'm not human :'[
    – Nic
    Commented Dec 6, 2016 at 6:25
  • @QPaysTaxes As long as you're not a robot you're okay ;) Commented Dec 6, 2016 at 14:57
2

You say that there is a "new low" in the quality and give how to find the third element of an array as an example.

Yet, this question is marked as a duplicate of a 2011 question. A question that has +30/-1 votes (only one +1 since this question so most upvotes were "natural" and not due to the meta-effect).

Now, one could argue that both questions are crap, but it does seem to undermine your point there is a "new low". This question was asked before, and even received well.


There will always be lazy gits who can't be bothered to read past the second paragraph of awesome-nina-JS-tutorial.com. Whether or not these sort of extremely basic questions should be allowed on the site has been a long-running discussion on the site – pretty much since day one – see for example Should trivial re-occurring questions really be answered? (as well as many others). The current sort-of consensus is that they should be allowed.

2
  • 2
    The presence of Old Lows is no justification for allowing New Lows. The target of Stack Overflow has shifted over time, so now some questions are no longer on topic, but Lows are Lows, and You Did No Research At All has always been a reason to downvote.
    – Jongware
    Commented Dec 6, 2016 at 11:33
  • 1
    @RadLexus I didn't say anything about what should or should not be allowed, I merely pointed out that the premise of the question is wrong as this is not somehow a new problem. Commented Dec 6, 2016 at 17:25
-6

If one's question about a tool is answered in that tool's official documentation or well-known tutorials on a site intended for professional and enthusiast programmers who at least Google their problems (such as Stack Overflow) then that one deserves to be told to RTFM. In fact, being told to RTFM could improve him/her as a programmer, as (s)he can then realize that online programming communities don't necessarily replace basic research skills.

In other words, vote to close as off-topic with this custom reason:

Stack Overflow is not a substitute for a minimal understanding of the documentation/tutorial/whatever of the language/framework/library/IDE/whatever you're using. Please read [the fucking manual](link to the documentation/tutorial/whatever) before asking a question about [insert the language/framework/library/IDE/whatever the question is about here] here.

So in this case, your close reason would end with "please RTFM before asking a JavaScript question" (note the link to MDN).

3
  • @downvoters Assuming you downvoted this because I used expletives: Do note that "RTFM" can be constructive if you link to the manual, so that the user that is told to RTFM can quickly find out where in the manual his/her question is answered. Commented Dec 5, 2016 at 22:27
  • 1
  • 1
    My reasoning for downvoting here is that I don't see this as a valid reason to vote to close as it makes too many assumptions. It is perfectly possible that plenty of reading has been done but it just doesn't click (making it easy to put content online does not make people good writers); because of the rules surrounding asking a question on SO it is pretty much implied that you should keep questions straight and to the point so it is only too easy to not show a hint of research. Downvoting is the way to go in these cases.
    – Gimby
    Commented Dec 6, 2016 at 13:27

You must log in to answer this question.