51

I guess I didn't read the Help Center well enough, because I never noticed this part before:

Have the same problem?

Still no answer to the question, and you have the same problem? Help us find a solution by researching the problem, then contribute the results of your research and anything additional you’ve tried as a partial answer. That way, even if we can’t figure it out, the next person has more to go on. You can also vote up the question or set a bounty on it so the question gets more attention.

I'm so confused now, because it conflicts with everything I know. All along I've been recommending deletion for these "Me too answers":

This does not really answer the question. If you have a different question, you can ask it by clicking Ask Question. You can also add a bounty to draw more attention to this question once you have enough reputation.

I need help understanding this. Have I been doing it wrong? Or does the Help Center need help?

Note that most of the answers I recommend deletion for could not be considered "research" in any capacity, but I remember that there was at least one that might have counted as such. For those that wonder what this mythical creature looked like, it was basically saying that they had code that also reproduced the error. I'll see if I can find it, but it might be hard to find...

It's not the one that I was thinking about, but here are some Me too! answers that appear to provide some info (is it research though?):

(Both of these answers seem to be deleted now...)


Note: I have added my own answer.

7
  • 28
    If you've been flagging answers as NAA/"me too" on the sole basis that they start with "I have the same problem", then yes, you're doing it wrong.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 11:44
  • 11
    Oh cool, NAA discussions again. So the literal text "The problem seems to be in the configuration" can be an answer, because it shows (the result of) additional research and narrows down the problem? Shouldn't an answer contain an actual (re)solution (which, for example "You cannot do that" is)?
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 11:59
  • @CodeCaster That'd be a terrible answer, not because it's not a full solution, but because it contains no references or explanation to back up the user's suggestion that the configuration is the problem.
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 19:47
  • 1
    @Ajedi32 I couldn't think of an entire, valid answer as an example, and if I could, that wouldn't fit in a comment either. Of course I didn't mean that as a literal answer. My point is: narrowing the issue down but not offering a solution or workaround is not an answer.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 19:48
  • 5
    @CodeCaster Well, you did say "the literal text". But yes, if a user did a significant amount of research or testing leading to the conclusion that "the problem is in the configuration", and showed that research in their answer, then yes I think that's a helpful contribution, even if not a full solution.
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 19:50
  • @Ajedi that's fine; I don't, and explained why in my answer below. The literal example above was kind of meant tongue-in-cheek. That being said, I don't really think this is such a pressing issue.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 19:53
  • 2
    @BoltClock Some questions only have that as the "answer". When there is substance, I read on to see if they meant I had this problem too... and then provided a solution.
    – Laurel
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 20:11

6 Answers 6

55

If an answer isn't simply, "I have the same problem," but contains demonstrable progress toward actually finding a solution, then it's fine to post in an answer.

That's where the distinction lies: if the answer doesn't contain real progress toward a solution, it should still be removed. If the answer does contain real progress, then it should be left, even if it's not a complete solution to the problem.

I also think the wording here is fine: the Help Center suggests that if you have the same problem, you "[research] the problem" then "post your research and progress"; the end goal being that "the next person has more to go on." It does not recommend simply posting that you have the same problem.

9
  • 1
    Should we change the wording for the review queue? I think that most people would vote to delete this stuff anyway because it's a rule hidden away in something most people have only read when they started, if at all.
    – Laurel
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 19:39
  • 8
    @Laurel Not sure, the concept is still "if it is an attempt at an answer, don't recommend deletion" (and in fact, shouldn't have been flagged in the first place). This is the general guidance for the VLQ queue.
    – Tunaki
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 19:40
  • 4
    "if the answer doesn't contain real progress toward a solution" is too subjective for my taste.
    – Oriol
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 21:59
  • 5
    It is only subjective when you don't know the real answer. Don't kill what you don't know. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 22:47
  • 4
    @HansPassant So, if there are other answers that solve the problem, we can delete away?
    – Laurel
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 0:06
  • 7
    Ech, I don't like this. I feel like an answer should be complete and self contained. Everything less just encourages chatty guesswork answers to incomplete questions.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 0:06
  • @Tunaki Related (and related to the whole NAA discussion): You're doing it wrong: A plea for sanity in the Low Quality Posts queue
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 1:48
  • This is a pretty common pattern on puzzling.stackexchange.com , where many people post answers that don't answer the question, but instead contribute progress towards reaching the goal. Commented Jun 5, 2016 at 16:22
  • @PatrickRoberts one thing is partially answering the question until reaching another state of completeness and something different is just what they tried and didn't work, either.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 20:19
18

So the scenario is:

  • User X has a problem. They posted a question about this problem with some relevant details. The problem isn't solved yet, the question has no answers.
  • User Y comes along, and has exactly the same problem. They found user X's question, and have done additional troubleshooting. Now they have narrowed down the problem, but still no solution.

User Y's research contains the steps they have taken to narrow down the issue, but the key point here is that with all the work they've done, they still don't have an answer to the problem. They only have additional details to the original problem.

I really don't think that user Y should then post an answer containing this research to user X's question. It could very well be a comment to the original question, or an entirely new question altogether, where the latter links to the earlier question for a backstory.

By posting additional research as a "partial answer", whatever that may be, you're treating answers as forum posts, and I don't like that one bit.

That being said, I have never seen this happen, and I have seen quite a few posts.

5
  • This situation comes up for new answers to old questions, I've seen it at several occasions. When it does, I'm more inclined to leave them be - they generally add relevant information and the research sometimes points (or guesses) to possible causes. Borderline, but still outside of the flaggable area for me.
    – Tunaki
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 23:48
  • It might make more sense to post the additional research as an edit to the question, though that might also be viewed as nonkosher changing of the meaning of the question..
    – Warren Dew
    Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 2:12
  • 1
    I agree with your point, but I do think it's important to make a clear distinction between research that simply elaborates on the problem, and research that actually makes progress towards a solution to the problem. The former is not an answer, but rather something that makes the question more clear or otherwise more answerable, while the latter absolutely is an answer, however incomplete (any attempt to provide an answer, no matter how lame, protects a post from the NAA flag). If you think the answer's not useful, feel free to down-vote, but don't flag it as NAA. Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 22:45
  • 3
    I've posted answers before that had additional research, because they were too long and a poor fit for a comment, sometimes including speculation on a cause or solution without being able to confirm. Or because it was too much information or a poor fit to edit into a question. I do this on a case-by-case basis. There was also an instance where I posted research-only but made it a community wiki so we could get lots of similar feedback from others, and a cause was eventually found.
    – briantist
    Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 23:26
  • @WarrenDew if they feel the need to edit the question with their findings, is preferable that they ask their own question instead. It gets more exposure (since it's a new question) and the user owns the question, so people are more willing to interact with it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 5, 2016 at 2:45
9

I'm with you.

Answers are not a chronological record of what steps the community took to arrive at an answer. They are answers.

  • If you need a discussion with people because you're halfway there, do it in chat.

  • If you don't fully understand the problem, ask for clarification in a comment.

  • If you have the answer to the question, write an answer.

The SE model is really as simple as that. I can't believe so many can't understand it nowadays!

That Help Centre text is dangerously wrong.

2
  • I did once include a "chronological record" of my steps in an answer (I was really excited about the process),, but I also provided the solution I reached in the end. I think that including the process can be a valuable asset to an answer, but not on its own, only in addition to an actual solution.
    – Laurel
    Commented Jun 5, 2016 at 16:05
  • @Laurel: Agreed. Commented Jun 5, 2016 at 16:22
3

The way I would interpret that is that Person 1 posts a question saying they are currently at A, and would like to get to Z. They have tried this and that, but it only got them as far as B and C, not all the way to Z.

No one has answered by the time Person 2 shows up, but they are able to contribute: "hey, I was also at A trying to get to Z. I did this, this, and this, and it got me to X and Y, but still not all the way to Z."

I would see this as a constructive partial answer, because perhaps with their heads combined (or other onlookers seeing both attempts at solving the issue) they or someone else will be able to see the missing link and cobble a complete solution together. Without Person 2's contributions, the original question may not have been clear enough, and what they contribute might not be suited to a comment if it is particularly detailed or includes code snippets.

In addition, other onlookers may know how to get from Y to Z, but can't see the longer relationship all the way back to A, so Person 2 has helped bridge the gap.

1
  • 3
    I'd probably close the question as too broad if it asked to go all the way from C to Z... But point taken, I agree that it is indeed an answer if it provides almost what the question wants, but falls a little short. A concrete example would be having the behavior ready, but the output not being properly formatted.
    – Laurel
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 20:34
2

After reading everyone's answers (and leaving some comments), I'm going to provide my own.

There seem to be two divisive interpretations of the relevant rules.


Case 1

Some types of "incomplete" answers are completely acceptable. It just depends on how incomplete it is.

It's also important to look at the question. If it is too broad, it should be closed, not answered partially. And you also need to think: If it's not too broad, why not answer it completely?

Nevertheless, here's a good example:

A question asks for a regex that will format strings that meet a certain criteria. (Formatting a string to have two decimal places, but only if the string is entirely numeric would be a concrete example that is very reasonably scoped.) It would be acceptable for an answer to provide a regex that does the formatting, but on any string it is fed. It fails to answer the question completely, but the remaining portion of the problem is trivial to solve and is likely well covered by existing Q&A's elsewhere.


Case 2

I think that answers that are indisputably research, by a more academic standard, are also valuable enough to remain as answers. The content of the answer should also be something that doesn't fit well within a comment.

There are very few answers that meet this criteria, so the only example I have is stolen from briantist's comment: Passing an array to a function is extremely slow.

I think that only certain questions lend well to this type of answer. In a weird, indirect way, it's essentially an opinion-based question, except it's the computer's "opinion". As long as the problem in the question is clear, reproducible, and not too broad (in that question the discrepancy was between only two computers), then there is no problem.


Summary

The most important thing to consider is the question, as with any other answer you make. Is it good and on topic, or was the partial answer a resort to overcome a flaw in the question?

The first instance fits the typical definition of an answer very closely, so it would rarely be flagged as NAA in the first place. It's so obvious that I doubt that we actually need a rule in the first place.

The second instance is a little grey. Research, in some ways, is polling; you must gather data from a number of places in order to make a statistically sound conclusion. But, as long as the question and answer are good, there is no reason this shouldn't be allowed.

Proposed changes

I think that we desperately need to change the Help Center text. I don't think the information is helpful in any way to new users; it's more relevant to reviewers who already have experience with the site and likely only go to the Help Center to get links for new users. In fact, it was a discussion on Meta that originally brought this to my attention, not because I was reading the Help Center.

For obvious reasons, I think that it's harmful to new users. It is liable to be misinterpreted and/or confusing as it currently stands.

While it may be relevant to other sites, like Skeptics (where the meaning of "research" is clear and obvious), I do not feel that it is beneficial to have this information in our Help Center. The rules should indicate the best or most common interpretation of a good answer, not the exception to it.

We should raise the bar so that when new users try to meet our standards, but fail, they attempted to meet the highest standard and hopefully produce better content. It might be enough that they produce something OK instead of garbage, in spite of falling short of perfect.

Citations ... Wait a second, this isn't a research paper! ;)

0

I don't know how to solve your problem, but here's what I've tried so far:

  • I tried commenting on the question to get some more information and ask if the OP solved the issue, so far without response,
  • edit the question to add some more information of what I've found, but it was rejected,
  • answer the question with what I've tried so someone can help me, but it was deleted and someone suggested that I should ask a question,
  • I went along with the suggestion and asked a new question with all the new information, a guy told me to include some more and then answered the question. I told him about the other guy question, that had the same question I had, he said that he doesn't have enough information and since my comment went without response from the OP he just flagged as "Unclear" and moved on.
1
  • I see what you did there. :-) Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 16:04

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