22

This question was recently edited to include a specific caveat. Paraphrased:

Is there a solution that doesn't involve spending money?

I don't have any numbers as to how often that caveat is applied to Stack Overflow questions, but I've certainly seen it on multiple occasions. Sometimes it's in the original question, sometimes it's edited into the question, sometimes it's in the form of a comment on an answer, such as (paraphrased):

That doesn't really help me because it costs money.

It seems to me that sometimes (maybe even often?), this can blur the lines between a technical solution (which we do) and a service recommendation (which we don't do). For example (paraphrased from memories of questions I can't find right now):

Asker: I'm trying to publish an ASP.NET website from Visual Studio, but it's asking me about a server. What does that actually mean? The site works on my computer, what do I need to do to make it work for someone else? (I assume I can't be a server, since my computer gets turned off regularly.)
Answerer: Basically, it needs to be uploaded to a server somewhere on the internet that people can access, ideally something which is always (or reasonably almost always) available for requests to use the website. In lieu of your own server, it would have to be another one somewhere else. Azure or Amazon have cloud services which can host websites, for example. As do many others. [proceeds to elaborate on the technical details of publishing an ASP.NET website]
Asker: Is there one that doesn't cost money?

Considering that we as a community also like to maintain a balance between helping the person who originally asked vs. preserving content which is helpful to future visitors (remember "Too Localized"?), what sort of guidelines should we apply in such a situation?

After all, the caveat of "it needs to be free (or very cheap)" doesn't necessarily apply to future visitors. Nor does it in any way address the technical programming question being asked. (In addition to the less-relevant-but-still-extant fact that it's pretty annoying to answer a question thoughtfully only to have the OP complain that you're not being helpful because of some other non-technical requirement that was never mentioned.)

8
  • 12
    Your example question of how to host a site on another server is not actually a programming question.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 16:27
  • 1
    @Servy: Agreed, perhaps I can word it better. The intent is to be centered around the use of the tooling, such as publishing from Visual Studio. I'll edit...
    – David
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 16:28
  • 7
    It is just really unconstructive, if somebody knows a decent solution that's free then they'll certainly mention it. The OP probably won't appreciate you editing it out so just DV and move on. Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 16:38
  • 2
    The only legit version of a "how can I do this for free" question I can think of (that is, one that isn't a find/recommendation request) is a question that's actually asking how to code a solution from scratch vs using a product or library. But if that's what they're asking, it ought to be worded that way. (It's also likely to be too broad, but that's a whole other thing.)
    – BSMP
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 19:40
  • 5
    If the question is otherwise on-topic - not that I can think of a good example - then price or licensing barriers are as legitimate a technical constraint as any other (e.g. hardware requirements). If you can't afford something, you can't afford it. The problem isn't the requirement that a tool be free, it's that a question that involves a tool suggestion is probably off-topic for other reasons. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 14:40
  • 2
    We have Software Recommendations for a reason.
    – OrangeDog
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 15:14
  • Questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic for Stack Overflow as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam. Instead, describe the problem and what has been done so far to solve it. exists just for this reason.
    – user177800
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 21:26
  • 1
    One specific variation of this is the “library problem”. It's a common joke that all javascript questions can be answered with “use jquery”. But not all libraries have valid licensing for you. For example, “How do I do cryptography in C#?” and “... in C++?” are very different questions, since one has it in its standard library. Answers to the latter are almost certainly going to involve a specific vendor's (or OSS project's) tooling. But there's no way for the asker to know (or he wouldn't need to ask), which can put askers in a tricky situation.
    – alficles
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 23:46

3 Answers 3

20

I find your example a bit contrived, but I agree with the point it makes: sometimes you get into territory where the answer clearly is "you probably need to spend some money on something". However, that is completely outside any technical discussion. The technology itself doesn't cost anything. We can describe in extreme detail, if so desired, the workings of a web server and how web sites are hosted. We can even explain in examples how such a thing is typically achieved in the real world (data centres, shared hosting and whatnot).

What we should absolutely stay away from is concrete service recommendations. Companies go out of business every day and new ones constantly spring up. Such overly specific details that don't pertain to a technology as such have no business in a "neutral, timeless" SO answer.

In your specific example, you can tell the OP that they need some constantly accessible web server, and the typical options that exist like shared hosting, VPSs, AWS, Azure and such. You can point out that perhaps they're able to find a (usually ad supported) free hosting service if they look for it. But that's where it ends. The OP needs to make a business decision for themselves. If it's probably going to cost them money then it's probably going to cost them money, and if they are trying to save money then it's up to them to figure out how to do that.

9
  • 4
    "The technology itself doesn't cost anything." What do you mean by that? Take for example the Intel Math Kernel Library. It's the fastest and most used math library for Intel and compatible processors, so you may want to use it to solve a problem, but then you have to pay for it -it's not free. What if the asker asking a problem where you would use this library doesn't want to pay that much for implementing the solution? Technology especially good one seems be expensive sometimes. What would be the alternative? Explaining how the Intel Math Libraries would solve that problem in extreme detail? Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:36
  • 2
    @Trilarion The technology as such doesn't cost anything. The company which holds the particular implementation has decided to charge money for it. Those are two different things. The actual physical bits, the source code, the binary, the concepts, the algorithms are pure knowledge unencumbered by money. You could do all this for free given you have the right knowledge. – In the real world, specific companies charge specific amounts of money to ease your implementation workload and give you a prefabbed specific solution.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:40
  • @Trilarion As I said, your answer could very well be something like "the mathematical concepts you need to employ are X, Y and Z. BTW, Intel will sell you a library which is an excellent implementation of those concepts, if you don't want to reinvent all that from scratch."
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:42
  • ^ What I was getting at in my answer as well.
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:42
  • 3
    @deceze Okay, but it still feels a bit weird because in many answers on SO it's not really the pure concept/algorithm but more like specific implementation examples and usually this is also what people are satisfied with. No need to explain to me in detail how a web framework works if I could just use Laravel (which is free) and get the result. If however there is no free framework available, I might be thankful for every general explanation about the technology. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:59
  • 1
    @Trilarion And sometimes that's appropriate and sometimes it's not. If the question is "How to do URL routing using .htaccess", I would consider "Just use Laravel, it has that built in" an invalid answer.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 17:18
  • @deceze it might pass as a decent comment, though. Commented Mar 20, 2016 at 7:02
  • @deceze - the basic math may be pure knowledge, but the rest is not. The source code, the binary code produced from it, etc, are product, not knowledge, and Intel is well within their rights to charge for their implementation of the basic math knowledge. Break into their servers and steal their source code and you've committed theft as surely as if you broke into Ford's auto plant and stole the blueprints to their new car model. Just because you can't touch it doesn't make it any less real. Commented Jan 20, 2017 at 1:55
  • @Bob Right. And what we can discuss here at SO is how to build a car; we should stay away from telling people to go buy the Ford ABC345 Sports Edition. If you need to steal the actual blueprints from Ford in order to answer the question, then it's probably not something we can answer here. But that's not typically the case; we know how to build cars, and we can talk about that. If Ford builds the best car because they know something we don't, fine, go buy a Ford. Just don't talk about it here, because that's not what we want to talk about.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jan 20, 2017 at 9:21
10

In the general case questions have constraints/limitations. All these constraints limit the usefulness to further visitors. Still such questions are not automatically off-topic because of a limited use to future visitors. A typical technical constraint is for example "I have legacy code and must use this framework". It's important that the limitation is explained, so that answerers know which solutions are prohibited.

A possible financial constraint could be "I do it privately and do not want to spent much money. Using expensive tools/licensed content is not possible for me." Another possible constraint could be "I work in an open source project and would prefer to only use open source tools/libraries." .

Would we regard these as valid constraints? Are price/licensing barriers as legitimate as technical barriers (quoted from a comment)?

Questions with such constraints are answerable without much frustration because the constraint is quite clearly defined and also they may be somewhat useful to future visitors facing the same constraint.

That's why I tend to say that in the general case it's okay to include price/licensing limitations if nothing else speaks against the question. The example question had other severe problems though. It depends a bit on how useful questions with such limitations are in general.

3
  • Questions typically always have some limitation. "I want to do X, but I'm in a static method." "I'm trying to do Y, but I have limited memory to work with..." In fact, those are usually the better questions. The other end of the spectrum, wide open-ended questions, are in fact usually the ones which are off-topic.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 15:16
  • @deceze I meant somewhat additional limitations that you do not have in the normal case but you're completely right. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 15:28
  • I feel explaining a constraint is good, but an answer that ignores it isn't a problem particularly.
    – Sobrique
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:52
5

The question you linked to is off-topic, so appropriateness is not really a concern. For questions that are about programming/are on-topic, all answers are free, so appropriateness is purely a moot point.

The Asker - Answerer - Asker scenario is also off-topic, in my opinion, because it's too broad and/or asking about server-related issues, which is the purview of Server Fault, not Stack Overflow.

25
  • 6
    "all answers are free" - I'm not sure what you mean by that. The answer itself may be free, but describes a technical solution which would cost money to implement.
    – David
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 16:37
  • 5
    @David If they are asking for how to do something in a language or application (say, one that costs money), then they must already have access to it. If they're asking if there's a product or language that is free that can accomplish what they're trying to get, that's off-topic.
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 16:39
  • 1
    I like that last point in your comment there. As soon as the OP starts focusing on his/her "requirement" instead of the technical solution, the nature of the question more clearly changes to an off-topic one. I'm sure there are still edge cases where it could go either way, but that seems like a very reasonable starting point and guideline. In such a situation, it seems that the answer it still good and valid but doesn't necessarily need to be "accepted" by the OP if there's reasonable hope that an alternate solution may yet exist (aside from just service recommendations).
    – David
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 16:42
  • 14
    @TylerH It's off topic to ask for a recommendation for a product, but it's not off topic to just ask how to do something, and for someone to post an answer that is dependent on the use of a 3rd party product, that may not be free.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 16:52
  • @Servy That's true, but I think asking such a question in a specific enough way to not be "too broad" is a seldom enough occurrence to register it as an edge case.
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 18:41
  • 11
    @TylerH I'm sure it happens many dozens of times every single day. It's not that rare. It's certainly more common in certain tags than others. Javascript, for example, is a tag where 3rd party software/frameworks tend to be in widespread use, and are regularly suggested as solutions to questions not specifically asking about that product.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 18:43
  • 2
    @Servy In those scenarios I think the answer suggesting it being used would be out of place because an answerer first would need to understand the environment OP is working in. If they're not using an application or service, then the answerer shouldn't, either. If it's not possible without that application or service, especially a paid one, then the answer should be "no, it's not possible without X", rather than "yes it's possible with X paid program and here's how".
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 19:01
  • 9
    @TylerH It's not improper to suggest the use of a product to someone who isn't using it, unless the question is somehow stating explicitly that it wouldn't be appropriate, or that it specifically needs to use a particular tool.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 17, 2016 at 19:14
  • 3
    I think it'd be silly to recommend someone reimplement a huge library without at least mentioning that it's already out there.
    – Casey
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 3:30
  • 1
    This answer makes me want to write a programming language where you have to somehow expend real currency (bitcoins, or serial numbers of bills) in a non-reversible way (maybe, two programs using the same numbers won't both work) in order to do tasks. Or maybe where to write code, you have to inject messages into the blockchain of bitcoin. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 14:59
  • 1
    "All Answers are Free" is not true in all scenarios. In fact, if you ask a junior dev to step through code you're likely to get into the free vs paid discussion on IDEs. That, and then there is the library discussion. If someone is asking how to do x and a paid library will accomplish it, that's clearly the path of least resistance. A person wouldn't be out of bounds saying "if you're using library y all you have to do is z". I don't think that labeling the scenario raised in the question as illegitimate is fair or even mostly true. It's opinion.
    – Nate I
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 15:30
  • 2
    @NateI This site is not the place to tell everyone about "awesome new frameworks that make life easier". If you know of a tool that OP is not using, tell them about it in the comments or in chat, and if they seem interested, then you can post an answer using that tool.
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 15:37
  • 2
    @NateI - Your comments were starting to become quite unconstructive, so I have removed them. I recommend calming down before continuing this discussion, and / or taking it to a chatroom.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:22
  • 2
    @NateI - Calling someone "ignorant", stating "you clearly don't know any programming yourself", and repeatedly insulting their contributions on this site are not particularly productive means to get someone to see things your way. Don't attack the person, focus on the topic at hand.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:32
  • 1
    @NateI I didn't respond to that half of that comment precisely because I didn't disagree with it as stated; I responded to the first half and later on you kept pushing a separate position with which I disagreed. (it's just semantic, btw, not semantical, to be semantic...) :-)
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 19:56

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .