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The Phase #2 of the burnination process described here, is completed and it has been decided that the tag should NOT be removed from the system.


is a meta tag, indicating a particular industry while not adding any relevant, problem-specific information. The top questions where this tag has primacy are generally older, opinion based questions: 1 2 3 4. There are plenty of good quality questions with this tag, but the tag itself adds no value to them. I suggest we burninate this tag.

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  • 39
    I think it helps experts in that field find relevant questions to answer and thus is useful. Commented Jan 15, 2016 at 22:03
  • 28
    Please don't do this. From my experience - yes tagged questions are of lower quality. But: bioinformatics is a real field in science, so it has its own terminology own set of problems etc. Destroying the tag would make it much more difficult to let experts find these questions. I only see disadvantages.
    – cel
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 7:21
  • 13
    @Braiam, tags make it easier to follow and find questions. Asking for "absolutely necessary" tags makes no sense. Tagging is good if it helps people find your question; no more - no less. I am following the bioinformatics tag. If you burn it, I cannot follow anymore.
    – cel
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 13:18
  • 4
    I would be interested in @KonradRudolph's opinion on this since he is both a StackOverflow guru and a bioinformatics professional. Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 13:53
  • 6
    Stats at the start of featuring: Q: +30/-8. A1 (Saying No) +25/-3. A2 (Saying cleanup) +15/-3. A3 (Saying yes) +4/-9.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 7:16
  • 16
    Bioinformatics uses a specific set of file formats, and as such, it is not only about the (code) implementation. In addition, solving a bioinformatics problem often requires an understanding of both the technology used to generate the data as biological knowledge of the phenomenon being studied. Commented May 8, 2019 at 7:29
  • 16
    @Braiam "Tags are a means of connecting experts with questions they will be able to answer" seems to pretty squarely answer the point about following tags to me? cel uses them as such, as would many others. Removing the tag doesn't especially benefit anyone, removing it actively harms people's efforts. The worst case scenario here is a tag being superfluous, which doesn't seem like a strong argument against it to me. Ultimately a tag needs to help see the question answered, and if it allows bioinformaticians to find more questions, faster, it's serving its purpose IMO.
    – Joe Healey
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 7:33
  • 14
    This answer at Should we burninate chemistry? sums up my stand on this post. Please keep the tag.
    – zx8754
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 8:34
  • 5
    @llrs there are 387 items in the backlog, out of which 206 have to be featured, decided, acted upon. Given the average time for burninating 1 is usually 1~2 weeks, we essentially have 9 years of work cut out for us. ([like] was burned after 7 years)
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 14:51
  • 6
    @BhargavRao there seems to be a clear consensus in favor of keeping the tag though, right?
    – terdon
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 18:46
  • 3
    @Braiam He has 31 points and 10 posts which puts him just barely out of the running of the top list on that page at present. Regardless, I think RL credentials are worth more than SO points in this regard. Commented May 8, 2019 at 21:48
  • 8
    Eh, I'd not say that @Braiam. There are multiple 5/7 answers that provide enough arguments against burnination, and the community has voted them up. Saying that those are all bad is like an insult to the community. You can always repost a burnination request after it has been [status-*] marked, asking for the decision to be changed citing further evidence.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented May 9, 2019 at 0:03
  • 8
    I am one of the top [bioinformatics] tag answers. I also regularly clean up questions with/without the tag. Do not burinate this, it is a very useful tag for our community where knowledge beyond pure programming is required to answer questions. If there is an issue here it is that we now have our own stack exchange site bioinformatics.stackexchange.com and it's often unclear where questions belong Commented May 9, 2019 at 9:54
  • 3
    Stats at the end of featuring: Q: +41/-88. A1 (No) +123/-7. A2 (No) +58/-5. A3 (Yes) +6/-44. A4 (No) +40/-2. A5 (No) +68/-3. A6 (Migrate all questions) 0/-11. A7 (No) +14/-2. The community has voted against burnination.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented May 9, 2019 at 18:27
  • 4
    @Erdinc What are you talking about? What problem is this question demonstrating? You can't downvote a tag, and this question isn't about voting at all. It's requesting the removal of a tag from the system. That request has been declined; the community spoke clearly in favor of keeping the tag. As for your claim that Stack Overflow was founded to enable asking questions on any topic, that is completely false. Stack Overflow was created to enable asking a very specific type of programming question. This is all documented in the tour and the help center. It clearly describes questions not to ask.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented May 10, 2019 at 1:02

7 Answers 7

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I find the tag useful.

Bioinformatics is a field that includes both biology and software development. There are software algorithms and tools specific to this field.

The bioinformatics tag currently has 1256 questions. It is not the only tag in which older, opinion-based questions have attracted many votes. Opinion was more common in the early days of Stack Overflow, and opinion draws emotion and votes.

Issues with particular questions can be addressed on a question-by-question basis, rather than on the whole tag.

Tags in general help group similar questions together. This tag is no exception. As someone who works in the field, I use it to find bioinformatics questions. I would like to see the tag stay.

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    Your arguments about usefulness and grouping apply to [homework] or [apple] - surely you don't think we should keep those meta tags around? Re: old opinionated questions: that's true, but I mentioned those as the cases where bioinformatics was the primary tag, not as an argument that all questions bearing this tag were of that type. Commented Jan 18, 2016 at 14:04
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    An argument of utility is absolutely germane to your claim that the tag is a useless meta-tag. The bioinformatics is not a meta-tag, because it can be used to describe the content of a legitimate stackoverflow question. Commented Jan 18, 2016 at 19:46
  • @AndyThomas Lets try to put your argument backwards. Please provide hard evidence (read numbers) that the removal of this tag is detrimental to the site.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:37
  • 8
    @EsotericScreenName As far as I can see, the arguments don't apply to [homework] or [apple]. Nobody can have expertise in the field of "homework", and while admittedly someone might genuinely have broad expertise in Apple products, that expertise can be broken down into expertise in a small set of finer-grained (and more useful) product tags that we do have, like [macos] and [xcode] and [apple-watch]; we ban company tags only because we want those product tags to be used instead. While I'm not an expert, I can't imagine any sensible way of similarly decomposing [bioinformatics] into parts.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented May 9, 2019 at 8:24
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is a meta tag, indicating a particular industry while not adding any relevant, problem-specific information

While true in many (most?) cases, this is generally incorrect, because bioinformatics, just like technologies, uses a specific jargon, and has specific solutions.

Here’s a concrete (invented, but plausible) question as a counter-example:

I am trying to determine the distribution of the quality of my reads using the following code. Unfortunately the results are weird: I am expecting a smooth distribution but I only find five different values. What am I doing wrong?

Without knowing that this question is about bioinformatics, it makes very little sense (what reads? what quality?) but in the context of bioinformatics this question is understandable, complete (assuming it has code), easily answerable and fully within the scope of a programming website.

Of course there’s nothing wrong with prefixing the question with “This is a bioinformatics question” or even “this is a question about short-read sequencing data” but that’s what tags are for. In fact, tags are routinely used to set the question’s context: There are many questions that are only understandable once you know that they’re about , for instance. In this context, is a technology tag, not a meta tag.

Personally I’d prefer if we migrated all such bioinformatics questions to the more appropriate https://bioinformatics.stackexchange.com. Afterwards I wouldn’t be opposed to getting rid of the tag. But so far there was no consensus to migrate all such questions, and in fact when I suggested this previously there was a majority against. So until that happens, we need the tag and it has the exact same rationale as language tags.

What’s more, I actively use this tag to find questions that (a) are unanswered, or (b) would benefit from being migrated.

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    And this is exactly why we need actual users of a tag to chime in on or even should be the only ones to propose burnination requests. Clear rationale to keep the tag. I support this.
    – rene
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 9:55
  • I find bioinformatics to be more of a family of technologies tag, rather than a technology tag. Still, I mostly agree with the rest of the rationale.
    – E_net4
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 10:01
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    I'm not convinced it would be correct to get rid of the tag even if all questions appropriate for bioinformatics.SE got "exiled" there. A question may be programming-heavy enough that it benefits from the higher amount of views it will get here, but with the bioinformatics context being relevant. Commented May 8, 2019 at 11:00
  • @MaxLanghof absolutely! Speaking as a pro-tem mod of Bioinformatics, I would say that there are many questions which SO would be better able to handle than us (although Konrad here will answer most of those anyway :) ). There are also many we would be better suited for, of course, but you can have all sorts of pure programming issues while working in bioinformatics and the tag here will help direct experts to the posts they can answer.
    – terdon
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 18:45
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    @rene the fact is, there aren't that many users. Martin Morgan and zx (the 1st and 2nd) is an R expert. If you remove the r tag, he wouldn't have answered those questions. Bio, despite his name, answers primarily python questions. Heck, his top answer on the tag isn't even in the top 10 post of his. So, since there aren't actual users of the tag, who should we ask?
    – Braiam
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:35
  • Darn it, my comment above has a missing question mark after "answered those questions".
    – Braiam
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:58
  • @MaxLanghof Is this question even bioinformatics? stackoverflow.com/q/45025564/792066 I consider that an overuse of the characteristics of bash as shell. It's pushing the limits. The answer by Konrad is basically saying "you are doing it wrong". He may have a bioinformatics question, but figuring out how to solve that with the shell isn't something anyone should be punished with.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 21:01
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    @Braiam I follow both R and bio tags, Martin is a bioconductor Project Lead, BioGeek and ChirsR are bioinformaticians with python skills, Pierre is a bioinformatician with most 119K points at biostars and mod/admin etc. I know many other SO/BioStars users who are experts in bioinformatics and follow this tag. In short, we all are experts in X with bio context. Removing this tag will remove the attention of these experts.
    – zx8754
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 21:44
  • @zx8754 yet, you don't answer Pierre questions, nor Martin's. You follow the tag because you want. I bet that you would still answer those questions even if they didn't had the bio tag. BTW, your credentials doesn't matter. I'm a bioinformatic (according to my boss at least, my title is other) and I'm not following those tags. I know how to solve problems in Python, R and SQL and I search for solutions using those terms too. None of my peers appends "bioinformatics" to their searches and we work in cancer research.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 22:02
  • So, please, stop throwing around "credentials". That doesn't matter. What it does matter is if questions would be answered at lower rates if the tag didn't exist. In fact, since part of your job is statistician, construct a model and demonstrate that the tag at least has no effect in the answer rate.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 22:05
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    @Braiam I don't get your "actual users" definition. I was "throwing" creds to prove the point that those actual bioinformaticians follow this tag. I use it to find R posts that have bio context, without the extra bio tag, nowadays, I would not pay much attention to that R post even if I knew the answer. This is a simple idea, I like R and I do bio, so most likely I will focus on those posts. Pretty sure this same concept goes for other "actual users".
    – zx8754
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 22:22
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    @Braiam: Most rules outside of actual programming have exceptions. The bioinformatics tag appears to be one of them. You seem to be more interested in applying rigid rules to everything on SO than to actually making the site more useful for humans. There are some clear examples here of cases where it's useful, and anecdotal evidence from some tag users of how it's useful to them. I think zx8754's last comment is the key: not all R questions are interesting to someone that knows R. Same for me in C and C++ tags (where I have gold badges): I focus on the performance and C->asm questions. Commented May 9, 2019 at 1:17
  • @PeterCordes I'm not interested in applying rigid rules. I'm interested in making the site be the most efficient at providing answers to questions unique to software development, you know, the mission of this site. This tag as far I can gather evidence of, isn't helping that mission.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 9, 2019 at 1:35
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    @PeterCordes please, show an "off-topic / unclear" that wouldn't be "off-topic / unclear" with it. As far I can see, the ones off topic and unclear (or lacking MCVE, pick your poison) would be even with the tag applied.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 9, 2019 at 1:51
  • 1
    @Braiam "making the site be the most efficient at providing answers to questions unique to software development"; having a category for Bioinformatics questions is absolutely important for this. Bioinformatics has unique considerations and context which are essential for adequately answering questions pertaining to programming & software development in the field. Commented May 9, 2019 at 17:45
52

I disagree with burninating this particular tag, as it does serve to classify a type of problem that may be best answered by users with specific domain knowledge.

I do, however, feel that there are enough off-topic questions in the tag that a clean up would be in order. The tag should be removed from questions where it is completely irrelevant, such as this one and this one. WRT old posts, though, I'd leave any that are doing no active harm.

Prompted by this question, the wiki & excerpt have been updated with usage guidance and a clarified pointer to a former Stack Exchange associated site. They now read:

  • Excerpt: Use this tag only for programming-related questions related to Bioinformatics. Other questions do not belong here. Please refer to the tag wiki for more information.

  • Wiki: Bioinformatics is an interdisciplinary field that develops methods and software tools for understanding biological data. As an interdisciplinary field of science, bioinformatics combines computer science, statistics, mathematics and engineering to study and process biological data.

    There's a former Stack Exchange site specific to bioinformatics at https://www.biostars.org/

is a bit of an odd duck, as indicated in the last line of the Wiki. There's a Meta post about it: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/141143/the-website-biostar-stackexchange-com-has-been-disabled. Once upon a time, there was a StackExchange 1.0 site for the topic, but it decided to strike out on its own. It has a "special relationship", even though it's no longer part of the Stack Exchange Network, so we decided to preserve but clarify the off-net linkage.

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    Bioinformatics can be much more abstract than 'programming'. Algorithms themselves can be very logical/mathematical, can go into statistics, etc... so limiting the tag to 'programming' seems limiting
    – nmz787
    Commented Jan 15, 2016 at 22:49
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    @nmz787 - Algorithms are programming questions. If it fits the on-topic list in the help center, we keep it. But this is neither, so doesn't belong. And questions like this example shouldn't have the tag because [bioinformatics] is irrelevant. The measure is no different for this topic than any other.
    – Mogsdad
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 1:18
  • I just looked up the definition of algorithm... it applies outside computer programming. If stackOverflow is for programming though, then the bioinformatics post you linked to (and yes I support it being marked as bioinformatics, as it is simply the algorithm that is extracting the data which is flawed and preventing all 46 chromosomes from resolving) does not seem appropriate. Rather than removing the bioinformatics tag, questions not programming related should be marked as such and the user told where the appropriate forum to re-post would be (one of the other stackExchange family).
    – nmz787
    Commented Jan 19, 2016 at 17:26
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    There is an existing SE site for bioinformatics bioinformatics.stackexchange.com Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:24
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Going solely by the checklist for burnination:

  1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

Yes. It is broad, but certainly not ambiguous.

  1. Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

This is probably the weakest point. There certainly are many bioinformatics-related problems that are on topic for the site, but one might argue that is a meta tag similar to (if we focus on the "concept" aspect). In light of the other checklist points I don't think this has to be discussed in-depth for this burnination request though.

  1. Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

Andy said in his answer that it helps him find questions that he wants to answer, and multiple commenters have voiced similar concerns. That indicates to me that it adds something meaningful to the post. The same could not be said for .

  1. Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

The tag is broad but always means the same thing.

The tag more or less passes all of these criteria. In order to be eligible for burnination, it would have to fail all of these.

Therefore: No, this tag should not be burninated.

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    Regarding the second point, I think we can all agree that on this site, virtually all bioinformatics problems will be on-topic. Furthermore, while bioinformatics is a hybrid discipline, it’s generally seen as a sub-category of computer science (and, to a lesser degree, software engineering). Commented May 8, 2019 at 9:26
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    I think if it's 'on-topicness' was ever questionable (likely on a question by question basis), then the simple answer would be to punt it over to Bioinformatics.SE. I think the tag remains valid even in the case of migration.
    – Joe Healey
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 10:27
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    @KonradRudolph It is most certainly not generally seen as a sub-category of computer science! It's a sub-field of biology. I'm sure some people (presumably those who come from a CS background) consider it a sub-field of CS, and you could make a valid argument for its being one, but I really doubt that most people in the field do. I most certainly don't and neither does anyone I've ever worked with. I even know (few) professional bioinformaticians who can't write a line of code.
    – terdon
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 18:34
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    @terdon I did both my undergrad and masters in bioinformatics at the computer science and mathematics department of my Uni. There was a good bit of chemistry and biology but the majority was mathematics and computer science. Just because some bioinformaticians are bad at the basics doesn’t mean anything for the field. If you can’t write code then you’re, frankly, not a competent bioinformatician. You’re a biologist who dabbles. Commented May 8, 2019 at 18:36
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    @KonradRudolph I would actually be quite interested in having this discussion with you, but in chat, of course (my bad for starting this here, sorry). Here, let's just say that while I don't doubt that people entering the field from the CS side do indeed consider it a sub-field of CS, at least as many (and I would guess, many, many more) consider it a field of biology. Just like computational chemistry is still chemistry. Granted, there are parts of bioinformatics that are 99.9% CS, but there are very large swathes of the field that are more bio than CS.
    – terdon
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 18:41
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    @KonradRudolph and terdon we could have that discussion back to bioinformatics.SE chat... (or even meta.bioinfo.SE)
    – llrs
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:11
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    Invite me to that too ... I'd like to see @terdon realize that he's just a biologist ;p
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:13
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    @BhargavRao just? JUST? JUUUUUST?
    – terdon
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:23
12

I disagree with this burnination request. It's absolutely possible to be an expert in this topic; Harvard Extension School even offers a graduate certificate in it, as do several other universities. That being said, it's most decidedly not a Meta tag. Nor is it off-topic. From the tag usage guidance:

Use this tag only for programming-related questions related to Bioinformatics. Other questions do not belong here, but might be on-topic at https://bioinformatics.stackexchange.com/. Please refer to the tag wiki for more information.

This tag also appears to be helping numerous high-rep users find questions to answer (in fact, 2 20k+ users and a 10k+ user have over 100 answers each in the tag), which indicates that the tag is doing its job.

That being said, this tag doesn't meet the burnination criteria at all.

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    I agree that this is a fine tag and should not be burninated. But man, whether someone can be an expert in a particular topic is a terrible criterion for a tag. It’s time to put that one to bed. Tags serve one purpose: to categorize questions in order to allow prospective answerers to find them. I have a piece of paper that says I’m an expert in history, but that doesn’t make it a good tag.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented May 9, 2019 at 3:02
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    @CodyGray That's not the sole criteria, obviously. My point was that if you can have expertise in it (and clearly you can, based on the fact that you can even get a degree in it), then it isn't a Meta tag. By way of contrast, can you be an expert in [homework] or [beginner]? (Both actual tags on a different site BTW). I agree with you about tags being to help people find questions to answer, but I'll add one point: they're specifically to help people who have actual knowledge of the subject matter find questions to answer - not just any random person who wants to take a stab at it. Commented May 9, 2019 at 3:48
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    @CodyGray Plus, the tag does appear to be helping experts find stuff to answer (there are actually quite a few high-rep users answering questions there, including several 100k+ users and numerous 20k+ and 10k+ users). That in and of itself is a reason not to burninate it. Commented May 9, 2019 at 3:50
-13

Is moving the questions tagged with the [bioinformatics] tag to another StackExchange of the same topic (like https://bioinformatics.stackexchange.com/ ) a possible alternative to outright burnination? How feasible would this be?

Originally, I was going to share my own counterexample against burnination. However, I am just wondering if there might be a middle ground here. Considering the strong growth in that particular stackexchange, I think moving the content might be a viable alternative to at least consider.

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    Migrating posts across to another site has a few disadvantages 1. We have a hard limit on 60 days for migration 2. We don't migrate posts that are on topic and well received here. (they already are a lot of good programming related questions in that tag) 3. We don't migrate posts that are not on topic and would not be well received there. (we don't want to be a burden to the other site) 4. We can't migrate already migrated posts (with a few exceptions).
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:23
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    @BhargavRao thank you for explaining things. You bring up a lot of good points especially number 3 that I did not think about. I wrote my idea as a question precisely because I was not sure and I was asking more for feedback. It felt like such an obvious solution that there had to be a reason that people had not brought it up yet.
    – mlane
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 20:29
-42

This is a prime example of a meta tag. It doesn't tell us anything about the tools the questioner is using, be it binaries, libraries, APIs, etc., but it just tell us that the OP is "bioinformatic" or that the task the OP is trying to accomplish is related to "bioinformatics". From the answerers perspective, if you are using Perl, to do whatever, you just tag it perl; they aren't interested in the slightless if you are astronaut, mathematician or bioinformatician. This tag doesn't describe what the question is about, but who the OP is or the context of the task. As proof, try asking a question with only , and you will find that

"this tag won't say anything by itself - you can't tell what the question is about unless it's paired with some other tag (or several of them)."

(revised)

So, burn baby, burn. Starting from these ~33 questions, which only have the (a huge hint of crappy questions), then move towards the ones that have no answers, and then whatever is left. Do try to edit the questions first, if you find that they are on-topic, otherwise vote to close.

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    No, a "prime" example of a meta tag is homework. bioinformatics is admittedly debatable, but at least it's a real field of study where someone in that field could potentially offer insight that programmers in other disciplines might not be able to.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 6:34
  • @jpmc26 aren´t you reading the meta posts? I even quoted the relevant part :/ it tells exactly what is a meta tag "meta-tags do not describe the content of the question". Bioinformatics doesn't describe the content, but the special "context" around it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 13:16
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    Please question rules, even if they are written down. Yes, it is some kind of meta tag, but if you remove it, you would worsen the user experience for some people with no benefits whatsoever.
    – cel
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 13:31
  • @cel I've seen that each change in the system will "worsen" the experience for someone... but I learned that you can't have the heaven and earth at the same time too.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 13:41
  • @Braiam, so instead of being conservative, you try to make changes for which you cannot even name benefits? That's a weird way of improving things.
    – cel
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 13:44
  • @cel What? You would reach the exact kind of people that know how to answer your question (or wonder what you are smoking). How is that not a benefit?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 13:54
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    @Braiam, Sorry, but this is utter non-sense. How would removing the tag help reaching the right people? If you have a question tagged with [perl] and [bioinformatics] and now you remove the bioinformatics tag, you are not making it more visible to the [perl] community, just less visible to the [bioinformatics] community.
    – cel
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 14:02
  • 23
    @Braiam, you're missing something. The field of bioinformatics includes algorithms specific to bioinformatics. Tagging something "Perl" doesn't help if your question is about, for example, the Needleman-Wunsch algorithm. Your assumption that answerers "aren't interested in the slightest" would be true if the tag were biology. But it's not -- it's bioinformatics, and that last bit there, the informatics bit, is of interest. Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 14:26
  • @Braiam I was only saying that I think your claim was too strong.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 16:34
  • @cel because, they simply don't use those tags. Check the top users
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 17:44
  • @jpmc26 well, of course it sounds strong, since I have conviction of what I say.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 16, 2016 at 18:50

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