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Yes, according to the blurb of the front page:

blurb

I understand there do exist 4.7 million accounts (the number grew to 4.9 million since the text was put in place). But over a million of those are zombie accounts, already eligible for automatic deletion on the basis of inactivity. In fact,

Also, to be in 2.5 million one only needs to ask some vague/obscure question that nobody else cares about; a question that will be deleted in 365 days as abandoned. This doesn't make one a helpful member of community, does it?

Also, this is over the lifetime of the site. The blurb says "helping", not "helped once in 2009".

Conclusion: The number 4.7 million, presented in the context of "helping community members", is quite misleading. I suggest replacing it with something more honest, such as the last of the numbers quoted above, or another realistic estimate of the size of the community.

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  • 27
    Looks like someone got slipped something bitter in their morning coffee today. :/ But seriously, how much does it matter as long as folks are getting decent help? Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 18:48
  • 1
    I presume the correct number is the number of "seen since X ago" accounts, maybe throw in votes/edits?
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 18:48
  • 51
    Meh. Marketing is marketing... although I guess one-time accounts with no activity should be filtered out.
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 18:48
  • 29
    There is only you, me, and Jon Skeet (counts as 4.5 million) Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:06
  • 23
    SE just has no idea whatsoever how many real people are behind those accounts. Nobody knows. Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:16
  • 17
    Don't forget the many million search engine hits. Users who frequently get help here, withouth ever registering. I for example have been coming here for help for 3+ years, but created an account only a year ago. That 4.7m is not that far from the truth.
    – vacip
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:18
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    @vacip Reading a website does not make you a member of community, helping others.
    – user3717023
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:20
  • 30
    @NormalHuman "Lurkers" (invisible readers who don't participate actively, but return regularly) are part of the community. E.g. I have been recommending SO before my first post. So I did not help anyone by answering, but I did help others by directing them here.
    – vacip
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:23
  • 6
    @vacip That doesn't make you part of the community. A community is bound together by interaction, which lurkers don't do.
    – bjb568
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:27
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    @vacip The message I quoted says "join them" [by signing up]. That's a clear indication that anonymous visitors are not considered a part of community, for the purpose of the quoted blurb.
    – user3717023
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:32
  • 5
    @vacip Google.com helped billions of people in the last 90 days. It did not make them a community.
    – user3717023
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:37
  • 5
    @vacip An internet community is a cohesive network of participating users, not an arbitrary group of people you hand-wave into creation.
    – bjb568
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:41
  • 2
    I think if you start counting like you do, you should only count the answers. Of course questions can be useful for future users, but someone who asks a question asks it primarily for himself, and a future user could also ask it himself if no one had asked it in the past (and even, quite often unfortunately, if someone did). So I think the value is in the answers, so you should count the unique accounts that have gotten a positive score on an answer. Now I'm not good with data, but I guess this is much less than 186K. But that's marketing for you. ;-)
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 22:15
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    @HovercraftFullOfEels Programmers & techies have a penchant for accurate data. Since, you know, inaccuracy can quickly lead to lost days, weeks, or months of our lives. It's a valid argument to represent ourselves using our own standards, rather than the much-lower standards of accuracy commonly used in marketing. Commented Nov 23, 2015 at 0:20
  • 3
    The number of accounts with at least one positively scored post in the last 90 days is 186 thousand. - So the folks who spend their time editing, reviewing, and voting on content don't count? Since when?
    – BSMP
    Commented Nov 23, 2015 at 22:09

6 Answers 6

59

Meh.

If you want a number to indicate users on Stack Overflow (and you may not, but an awful lot of people seem to) then you gotta pick a way of measuring that. It won't be perfect at best, and it'll be grossly unsuitable at worst, but folks love numbers so you gotta pick some way of measuring that.

Counting the number of user accounts is pretty worthless for a lot of purposes. You can't really estimate how many people are visiting that way; it's a crappy number to use if you want to figure out whether your VB6 question will get answered quickly, or if you should buy ad space for your new database de-crapifying tool. Our Marketing people hate that number too, because it's a lot smaller than the estimated number of unique readers, which means it's less impressive-looking in contexts where readers are what really matters.

But none of that matters in the context of that front-page banner.

The whole point of the little blurb is to encourage folks to sign up, to stop passively reading and create an account. Not to ask questions, or answer questions, or edit, or search... Because by the time you know you want to do one of those then you're either already doing it or (in the case of asking) looking at a much more authoritarian signup banner:

So the little blurb you're seeing is encouraging you to create an account before you need it. Even if you never actually do need it. Even if it becomes abandoned and eligible for automatic removal. And in that context, the only relevant number is the number of other accounts that exist*, because that's who you're joining. You're not joining the ranks of askers or answerers or editors or people who've read the help center... If you do decide to do any of those things, you'll get a badge and a different number to count yourself a part of. But at the moment you're seeing that banner, all you're being encouraged to do is take the first, tiny step.

*So, I'm a little bit annoyed that the number used here is the total number of accounts and not the total number of registered accounts. I don't really care enough to make an issue of it (especially since the numbers are so close on Stack Overflow due to the register-to-ask requirement), but if you wanted to complain about something this'd be the thing.

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    But the wording is still misleading and dishonest. If you absolutely want to include that 4.7 million figure, why not something like "Sign up to join the 4.7 million programmers who already did."
    – nwellnhof
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 12:22
  • 3
    @nwellnhof oh, but that would be misleading... see, I am not a programmer for instance... unless you want to do a precise demographic analysis of SO users pretty much any sentence will be "dishonest" or will be so generic as to become useless in that context.
    – nico
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 12:52
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    "Click this button to join the 4.7 million people who clicked it before you." @nwellnhof
    – user3717023
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 15:46
  • @NormalHuman But what about people who made an account on a different SE Site before and did NOT click THAT button, but the "Join Community" Button instead? Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 9:04
15

The word you are looking for is puffery.

puffery

noun puff·ery \ˈpə-f(ə-)rē\
Definition of PUFFERY
:  exaggerated commendation especially for promotional purposes

Merriam-Webster

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  • 1
    Do you mean to suggest that puffery is something good that we should be doing, or something bad we should stop doing, or do you just want to provide some linguistical help?
    – Anders
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 12:56
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    @Anders There's obviously no agenda in this post. He is explaining the identity of the marketing technique that's employed above the sign up button.
    – Anthony
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 19:06
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The number of accounts with at least one post is 2.5 million.

That's true, but someone doesn't need to post in order to get help (or sometimes help - maybe by sending the link to someone else?). I know many people that have an account but doesn't participate at all in Stack Overflow.

The number of accounts with at least one positively scored post is 1.6 million.

One positively scored post doesn't necessarily help only one person, once in a year. The link can be viewed by many users, and they can find this specific post very helpful. I don't see any reason why to exclude these users from the statistics - For me, nothing is wrong about what the marketing says.

The number of accounts with at least one positively scored post in the last 90 days is 186 thousand.

Again. What's the problem with that? Not that I'm defending these users, bu take into account that the one positively scored post doesn't mean that the post is not helpful. I came across many posts that didn't have scores, by users that are inactive for long time, and still find it useful.


What I'm trying to say is that numbers can be always justified in a way or other, specially for marketing purposes. I can ignore hunder of thousands that can be filtered out for the sake of good marketing. There's really no big lie here, IMO.

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    I completely agree. Also, even though the wording precludes them, I'd be happy if the people that have been helped without contributing was added. I'm be willing to bet that number is an order of magnitude or two higher still.
    – DavidG
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:15
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    People without a post don't have rep and therefore can't post comments.
    – bjb568
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:15
  • We're so doomed, big Sigh :-S ... Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:15
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    "take into account that the one positively scored post doesn't mean that the post is not helpful" that makes 186k an upper bound. 4.7 million is way off what could conceivably be a reasonable number of active users.
    – bjb568
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:17
  • We can provide many explanations why the numbers are exaggerated or not. Do we want to? We're not talking about millions that should be thousands.
    – Maroun
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 19:22
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    I'd argue that millions that should be thousands is exactly what we're talking about.
    – bjb568
    Commented Nov 22, 2015 at 20:02
4

If you read it like this, which I think you can, there is nothing false or deceptive about it:

Stack Overflow is a community of 4.7 million programmers, just like you. Our aim is to help each other.

2

I agree with Normal Human that the current wording is dishonest. I also agree with Shog9 that there is no definite way of counting that could be labeled the truth.

In situations where the exact truth is hard to pinpoint, but you nevertheless need to say something, I think it is important to not give a false sense of precision. Therefore I propose this wording, that still is impressive sounding and gives some kind of quantitative estimate, but does not paint a false picture of 4.7 million actual active users:

Stack Overflow is a community of millions of programmers, just like you, helping each other.

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  • Helping each other to do what, though?
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 14:07
  • That same question could be asked about the original wording, and I consider it separate from the question we are discussing here.
    – Anders
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 14:34
  • (It is the original wording actually) True that, but to me the sales blurb is just as vague as any other sales blurb I've seen :) Improving the number reference doesn't really help much, it still opens the arms to people looking to outsource their misery. Like anywhere else, you are told the truth after you've been roped in already.
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 15:04
  • @Gimby well, solve their problems related to programming?
    – eis
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 20:58
  • @eis yeah sure, and its absolutely not about building a Q&A repository so people can actually solve their own problems.
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 25, 2015 at 9:41
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    I would think that goes under the umbrella of "helping each other to solve their problems related to programming"
    – eis
    Commented Nov 25, 2015 at 11:29
0

You are interpretting the sentence incorrectly.

If I say to you "look at all those people on the beach, helping each other learn to swim", it doesn't mean that every person is both a helper and a helpee. It means that there is a crowd of people in which some people are helping others, and by and large they are all benefiting.

The same with Stack Overflow.

Here we see another all to frequent event where a programmer tries to parse an English sentence too literally, and gets an epic fail as a result.

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    "look at all those people on the beach, helping each other learn to swim" however doesn't include the living and dead population of California.
    – bjb568
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 4:18
  • Only counting people who actually posted (or posted with positive score) would not exclude all people who are only learning to swim, and not teaching it. It would, however, exclude some people who are learning to swim but without asking questions. On the other hand, it would not include anybody who happened to walk past the beach five years ago.
    – Anders
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 12:37
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    If 5 people are teaching 95 people, would you really say there are 100 people helping each other even if it's not reciprocal?
    – nwellnhof
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 16:32
  • This is "programmer thinking". It is engineering analysis of English communication. IMHO: lighten up. It just says "lots of people are helping each other here". Someone who reads the statement and thinks "gee, I wonder if this is deceptive about how many helpers and helpees there are?" needs to get a life... Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 21:15

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