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A question gets asked that is entirely off-topic. As it starts attracting downvotes and close votes, somebody swoops in and edits it to clean it up, so it becomes an off-topic post with fewer typos and better spacing. Assuming the cleanup is valid, is it better to approve the edits as well-intentioned and harmless or reject them as a waste of time?

When I saw a case of this happening this morning I voted to reject, but I didn't have a clearly applicable rejection reason. I chose "no improvement whatsoever", since the edit makes no difference in the long run as the post will get deleted, but at the time I would have liked to have been able to give a close reason that was more descriptive. After the fact I considered maybe the reason there isn't a more specific reason is because I shouldn't be rejecting edits on these grounds. So what should we be doing here?

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    I view such edits as a huge waste of time, especially if there are close votes on the question, because as soon as the question is edited, it gets kicked out of the close review queue, which means it takes longer for it to actually get closed. Still though, I'm not sure if rejecting an edit solely for this reason is "ok"...?
    – user456814
    Oct 6, 2015 at 13:36
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    There's always the possibility that clarifying edits make the actual question more obvious. And perhaps even on-topic. I'm not so sure we should be mixing these two related but distinct concepts of a question being on-topic and well-formatted. For what it's worth, in your linked post, it became a lot easier to see that the question itself was off-topic once it was formatted. The opposite could also be true.
    – ryanyuyu
    Oct 6, 2015 at 13:47
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    Isn't one of the goals of editing posts to make them a better question overall? Maybe what needs to be done is to review how a post gets handled in the different queues after it gets edited.
    – Joe W
    Oct 6, 2015 at 13:55
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    @Cupcake: AFAIK, only editing from inside the queue ends the review-task. And it's somewhat difficult to suggest edits from the CV-queue ;-) Oct 6, 2015 at 14:00
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    I don't know why there is no canned reason in the GUI but you can always write a custom explanation, which is what I do when I encounter such cases. Unfortunately, I think we're in the minority considering such edits to be a waste so I don't think we're making any significant impact. I weigh the nature of the edit against the off-topicness of the question. Edits that make an off-topic question on-topic are fine (e.g removing from an otherwise fine question the one line requesting a library). Edits that put out fires (e.g. removing a rant) are also fine. Fixing typos on a career-advice Q isn't.
    – Louis
    Oct 6, 2015 at 14:03
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    Well, somewhat related: Editing and downvoting an answer Sometimes it isn't quite obvious there's nothing hidden below the mud until it's scraped off. No need to force all the other reviewers to do the same. Oct 6, 2015 at 14:12
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    Also on Meta.SE: Requesting a "stop polishing turds" edit suggestion reject reason
    – jscs
    Oct 6, 2015 at 18:23
  • Wikipedia project space link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… Oct 8, 2015 at 0:19
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    Rejecting an edit absolutely guarantees it was a waste of time. It's not a waste of your time, so maybe you should MYOFB. Pity there's no way to nominate others for a Sanctimonious Busybody badge.
    – Peter Wone
    Oct 8, 2015 at 0:49
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    @PeterWone: Who are you calling a sanctimonious busybody here, and for rejecting what kind of edits? Also, we cannot have enough good reviewers, though we have too many bad ones. And if you don't want to participate (especially in moderation) because you want to MYOFB, that's your choice (a hint to stay polite). Oct 8, 2015 at 2:48
  • @Cupcake "especially if there are close votes on the question" A person who makes suggested edit is one with <2k rep, and hence he cannot know whether the question has any close votes (unless the question is already closed).
    – user12205
    Oct 8, 2015 at 7:26
  • @Deduplicator - I wasn't talking about any particular person. The kind that devalues someone else's efforts. I'm going to lead by example and butt out now.
    – Peter Wone
    Oct 8, 2015 at 13:52
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    @PeterWone: It's nice you won't devalue anyones efforts to preserves SO's quality, whether by moderation or however else. Just also keep in mind that we are not actually interested in effort (aside from channelling it into the most useful direction we can), but in results. Oct 8, 2015 at 14:01
  • The time is already wasted by the time you review the edit. So does it really make a difference? Oct 8, 2015 at 16:49
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    Edits clear any flags the question (or answer) might have, that seems pretty harmful to me. Editing a question can kick it into the reopen queue, which is also a bad thing.
    – cimmanon
    Oct 8, 2015 at 17:18

3 Answers 3

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If the question is neither more useful, nearer to migratable, easier evaluated, nor at the very least more appropriately tagged to reach the right experts for heroic salvage-actions, the edit is completely useless and should be rejected as "no improvement whatsoever".

Anyway, in those cases you mentioned, as it's quickly getting downvoted and closed, don't worry too much: It will be removed automatically soon enough, with or without the futile edit (incidentally revoking the tiny reward to the proposer).

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    Doesn't the fact that any reward will be revoked if it is closed mean that you should tend to favor accepting the edit if it improves the post? If it gets closed no harm done (well accept for wasting your time reviewing the useless edit) but if it stays open then the edit was most definitely useful.
    – dave
    Oct 8, 2015 at 0:15
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    @dave: It's only revoked on deletion, though that doesn't change anything. And as I said, if it improves the post, accept. Oct 8, 2015 at 2:43
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(I'm not sure right now if I entirely agree with this, but I'm trying to represent the opposing view (to this) from the comments.)

Most of this is summarizing points made in the comments, most of which had not occurred to me. Given that

  • editing the question to make it more legible may make it easier to tell whether it is off-topic

  • for an edit to get judged on whether the question being edited is likely to get closed is entangling two separate concerns; judging whether to accept an edit ideally should be straightforward and not a balancing act

  • having a question getting bounced from the close-votes review queue does not seem to me, as a practical matter, to be that big an issue, most close votes are coming from people searching for questions to answer. (This is a guess on my part from observing that as questions get voted down attracting close votes gets harder, don't know if there's a way to confirm this on the data site?)

  • in the spirit of generosity towards other users I would prefer to accept edit suggestions that are well-intentioned even if ultimately futile (esp. since users may not be as cognizant that the suggestions are futile since they can't see close votes and may not be as familiar with close guidelines (since they are in the suggested-edit queue, not in the close queue), and we're back to the bullet point about entangling concerns)

then I come down on the side of accepting the edits.

The point about having the edit clear flags on the post seems like a good argument for the opposite point of view. But if the newly-edited version deserves flagging somebody will flag it again.

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You should accept an edit based on the merits of the edit, not because you (or anyone else) have an opinion about the question. Let the question votes deal with the question and let the edit votes deal with the edit.

If there are unwanted side-effects to doing the right thing in each case, that is a defect in the system. It is not for voters to fix the system using tactical voting. It is for voters to be honest and accurate.

If the edit is good, accept it, if the question is bad down-vote it.

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  • yes, this is the 'entangling separate concerns' bullet point from my answer, which seems to me like a key point. Oct 8, 2015 at 17:50
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    This post is specifically a feature request to request that the system be changed specifically because it rewards people for content that's not actually useful. Saying that nothing should be done because the system is defective in response to a request to make the system not be defective isn't helpful.
    – Servy
    Oct 8, 2015 at 17:59
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    @Servy The question is asking for a feature to reject an edit based on something other than the quality of the edit. Something that is already being decided in a separate vote.. My answer addresses whether or not we should judge an edit based on some criteria external to the edit so I think it is a valid answer.
    – Galik
    Oct 8, 2015 at 18:04
  • @Servy: sorry, I specifically avoided tagging my question as a feature request because i didn't want it to be taken that way but as a request for discussion. Oct 8, 2015 at 18:10
  • @NathanHughes You're requesting a change to a feature in your question, regardless of what tags you've applied to it. Mis-tagging the question doesn't change what it's asking.
    – Servy
    Oct 8, 2015 at 18:11
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    @Servy If we're being pedantic the question asks why there is not such a feature. The answer to the why in my case is that we should judge an edit based on the quality of the edit and not because of an orthoganal problem we have with the question.
    – Galik
    Oct 8, 2015 at 18:16
  • But the problem isn't orthogonal. The edit isn't a useful edit as a direct result of those problems. And again, you're the one saying that we should ignore core problems with the system rather than striving to actually fix them
    – Servy
    Oct 8, 2015 at 18:24
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    @Servy Whether or not the edit is useful or not depends on the edit itself. Whether or not the question is useful or not depends on the question itself. It is not for the person judging an edit to know if the question will ultimately be rejected. It is for the results of judging the question to decide that issue. Whether or not a word is misspelled is orthogonal to whether or not a question is off topic. We should not ignore problems with the core system, we should fix them in th correct way, not by fudging the the voting system.
    – Galik
    Oct 8, 2015 at 18:35
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    @Galik Whether or not a word is misspelled is indeed orthogonal to whether the post is on topic. Whether fixing that misspelling is productive is highly related to whether or not the question itself has any value. We don't want to be encouraging people to spend all of their time polishing turds. Using the voting system for suggested edits to ensure that only useful edits are actually approved is exactly what it's there for. If it's currently encouraging people to approve unhelpful edits, we should try to figure out how to change it to not do that.
    – Servy
    Oct 8, 2015 at 18:38
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    @Servy But you don't know if an edit is useful or not until you know if a question is going to be deleted or not. And the person voting on an edit is not privy to that information and second-guessing it will only lead to wasting perfectly good edits some of the time. Accepting edits that eventually get deleted harms no one. If you are woried about points being awarded for edits, then the system could remove those points when an edited post gets deleted.
    – Galik
    Oct 8, 2015 at 18:45
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    Here's my standpoint: why bother editing out typos and formatting the code of a question if it's asking for a huge code dump? What's the point? The edits should only really be focused on content that lasts. What you're proposing is just letting anyone polish anything up and calling it good, which is a waste of everyone's time in the long run.
    – Makoto
    Oct 8, 2015 at 19:59

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