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Are questions about the historical developments of specs on topic on SO? A user has told me that I have 'come to the wrong place' after he gave a 'programming' answer to such a question ignoring the entire 'historical' part the question was all about. (I was asking about the historical reasoning behind the addition of a certain function to the spec whilst another function is virtually the same and he pointed out that the functions aren't the same and that I came to the wrong place for asking about historical reasoning, here is a link. It became somewhat better with revisions, but still...).

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    It seems to me that the question should be closed as primarily opinion based (as are all of the current answers). Of course someone who was on the appropriate Ecmascript Standards might be able to give a real answer). Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 13:47
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    @DavidPostill Well, a lot of such things are documented and yes, the answers are opinion-based (and I couldn't care less if they disappeared), but it's not that long ago that all this stuff was developed that nobody would know. E.g. in a comment I wrote that it would be far from impossible that two browsers implemented different functions and that they ended up including both. If that would be the case somebody could find such a thing out or know such a thing. It's also possible nobody knows by now, but in the end the question itself isn't opinion-based as far as I can see. Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 13:51
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    I asked a question about why a particular Java API was designed how it was, and self-answered citing the designers' mailing list discussions about it. One of the designers is registered here and left a few helpful comments on the answer, and it is my best-received SO contribution. Said designer has answered several other questions about the design of Java's APIs; even if only the designer can answer, sometimes the designer has already answered (on a mailing list) or is a member here. Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 21:21
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    Another way to look at such questions - they are generally strictly for entertainment purpose. While may be on-topic on SO the lack of practical value will attract all sort so close votes and downvotes. It is also hard to expect proper answer if you are not 100% sure that person who can answer actually frequent on SO... Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 21:51
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    Don't let the C++ people know we're having this discussion.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 14:50
  • I think that question might be more appropriate for Programmers.SE, the site for "conceptual questions about software development".
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 18:48
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    @GeorgeStocker: Too late. Anyway, questions about rationale for C++ are welcomed, and so should questions about javascript / ECMAScript rationale. The issue here is that the question asks for the backstory leading to an action that never took place.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 21:35
  • semi-related: langdev.meta.stackexchange.com/q/277/251
    – starball
    Commented Jan 10 at 21:31

7 Answers 7

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A question about "why" can be a good, on-topic question. They tend not to be.

The question can be answered -- the reason why something happened can be documented, the person who made the decision might show up and say why they did it, or they may have been asked and the answer recorded somewhere else.

They are often hard questions to answer, because your skill at the language in question generally doesn't help that much. Instead, you have to track down meeting minutes, contact the people involved, or search over interviews in order to answer the question.

They are often ambiguously worded, which encourages people to give technical work-arounds.

They encourage opinion-based answers, which is bad, and if worded poorly they can even seemingly ask for such answers. As they encourage such answers, a reasonably high bar should be put on them, and they should make it clear that they are not asking for opinions but rather the actual justifications used at the time of design to make the decision (and evidence thereof).

So, often such questions are poor ones.

On the other hand, understanding why some library or language behaves in a certain way can be of practical value to programmers. In C++, I can list a few examples: why std::bind has its strange recursive binding semantics, or why std::string acts differently than other containers, or why there is a SSO but no SVO.

All of these whys have hard, documented answers in meeting documents/standard documents, statements by people who made the decisions, and/or evidence in the history of the standards or libraries and precursors.

However, it is really easy to instead get a mess of a question with poor answers flowing from it. Often you'll want to downvote, and/or edit it to make it more clear and narrowly focused on the actual evolution of the language. Using a tag and making this extremely clear from the start has some hope of preventing irrelevant "here is a work around" answers.

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Asking about the designers reasoning all by it-self should be close voted as primarily opinion based, maybe as too broad. The majority of the users here can only guess as only the designer of the language can answer that question. I'm not sure how all those guesses can be considered valuable for anyone. Only if Brendan Eich or Eric Lippert answers it becomes valuable.

But it is easy to get around that opinion based nature by asking about the typical usage of both forms.

I always use Foo.Bar(1) and until version 2.9.13.b this was our only option to Baz the Fu. In recent version we can also do Foo.Bar(true) which still Baz the Fu. I profiled both function for memory and speed. Why does Foo.Bar(1) give me a better performance?

(use any practical applicable example for the actual use of the language construct)

This enables answers to explain the real difference between methods, elaborate about their design and provide a solution to the typical usage of those methods.

And in this case I imagine Eric and Brandon have more substance to give an insightful answer.

Maybe the upcoming Documentation feature is a better place to work-out these kind of topics. An other place might be the wiki, if one exists that is suitable.

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    You may already realize this, but in the case of the linked example post, the OP went out of their way to make sure it was known that they understand how both functions work and how they are different, and that they were only interested in the history of why the later function had been implemented in addition to the original.
    – Dan Lowe
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 15:15
  • @DanLowe I first wrote this answer based on how I think those questions should be moderated. After that I checked the example question, which made me add the sentences between parenthesis. Adding meta comments to questions doesn't make them opinion based.
    – rene
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 15:35
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    The first sentence suggests a problem with the voting system. Why would it be opinion based if the designers of the language had good reasons to do something? That kind of thing often isn't a matter of opinion. Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 6:11
  • @juanchopanza: POB is about answers. Even if the designers had sound reasons (let's give them that much credit), unless they documented it (or come around to do so), we are left to speculate. And (as a mass) tend to do so with wild abandon and passion. Unfortunately, adding a disclaimer "don't be human and speculate" evidently doesn't work. Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 7:42
  • @juanchopanza: That is true, so if we allow such questions only the designers can answer and it would be awesome if they did. I only know Eric Lippert as a user who designed c# and as such answers questions with great background detail. However, SO is still a Q/A site for practical programming problems and I think the focus should be on the problem to be solved, not on how some functions/methods came to be. I tried to convey that in my fake question. In some case these design questions might fit on programmers.se but they are a better fit for a reddit AMA or a personal blog.
    – rene
    Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 7:46
  • @Deduplicator I know. But <strike>fools</strike> people will be willing to venture their opinion about pretty much everything these days, so all questions are "opinion based" by that logic. If I ask about the reason for a language feature, I want facts, and it isn't my fault that some are prone to speculate. Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 7:47
  • @rene Yes, I can see that. I'd be inclined to say such a question is probably off topic, but not for the "opinion" thing. Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 7:48
  • @juanchopanza The opinionated closure reason states "but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise". It might be that ImplementationA is faster than ImpelmentationB, but the designer chose it because the code looked prettier. Does knowing the actual reasoning change anything for you as a programmer?
    – cimmanon
    Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 12:55
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I disagree that the question is either too broad or primarily opinion-based, given that it asks about historical facts which are, if not documented, possibly still in the memories of those who took the decision.

I also do favor curiosity in general, and such questions interest me in general as answers might yield some unsuspected insights.

However, I am unclear whether such a question can really be answered.

Only a handful of individuals can really answer, and in this case none even frequent SO to start with.

Thus, all we have to show is a question with:

  • clearly off-topic answers
  • conjectures
  • ...

In this case, I am left wondering if this question really brings value to SO. If it were answered authoritatively it would be a good question, but if no one can answer it, then why goal does it serve?

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  • So to summarize, it would be cool if it worked (agree), it doesn't work because there are so few who could know (and none/too few here), but despite all the answers being (more or less wild) speculation (and lots of it), you don't think closing as "answers will be primarily opinion-based" is right? FWIW, if one of those joined and wanted to answer, I'm sure any number of high-rep users would come to the rescue by reopening if needed. Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 7:37
  • @Deduplicator: Not quite. In an ideal world, I think the question is useless (because nobody will answer it, most likely) and in a pragmatic world I think the question is an unfortunate attractive target for opinion-based answers. In either world, thus, I wonder what the question really brings to SO, baring the highly improbable event of THE right guy showing up. Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 7:44
  • I think questions like "Why does C use ; to end a statement" are to be closed. Even if we get the (possibly non-obvious) answer, there is no real use for it. OTOH, I find questions like "Why do arrays decay to pointers" very useful and instructive; they also allow more people to answer.
    – edmz
    Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 19:00
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    @black: Until you know the answer(s) to those two questions, how can you tell which one is useful and instructive and which one is a mere artifact of the first implementation?
    – ruakh
    Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 19:51
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    What I don't understand is "the highly improbable event of THE right guy showing up": Maybe he already said it somewhere, and anyone who finds this can answer with a quote and source. What ruakh said applies here too: How to know without asking?
    – alain
    Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 20:00
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    @alain: True, a quote could work too. So we are really down to people answering nilly willy, which the asker cannot really prevent; but some questions do attract these answers. Commented Sep 23, 2015 at 6:44
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I wrote one of the answers on linked example question. I waffled on my opinion of whether it was on-topic, and tried to couch my answer as a result. As I mentioned in the answer, only the ECMAscript 3 authors know why it was added. It's also possible it wasn't their idea. One or more browser makers may have invented it and the standard simply absorbed it.

This particular question has evolved; I think now that it's off-topic. The OP has made it abundantly clear that history is all they are interested in. I doubt there is a real, authoritative answer unless someone like Brendan Eich answers it.

That reminds me of another history question, here. That was about terminology from the DNS RFCs (which are quite old as Internet things go), and it seemed hopeless it could be resolved. Someone had tried to contact Paul Mockapetris, with no response. It happens that a friend of mine is friends with Paul Vixie, so I forwarded a link to the question thinking that perhaps Vixie might have an answer that I could share (with attribution to him, of course). He ended up joining SO and answering himself, which was awesome of him to do.

Ironically, I still don't think his answer is "the" answer - I'm not sure there is an answer. And I'm not sure there is in this case either.

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  • Do you have a final verdict? Are those questions on-topic and therefor should stay open and get answered or are these opinion based magnets better discussed elsewhere? Maybe on the wiki? Or the upcoming documentation feature?
    – rene
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 16:12
  • IMO the DNS question is fine. It has an answer, either QD means a certain thing, or it means nothing. Whether the answer can be obtained is a different issue. The substr vs substring is a "why" question and so is probably off topic due to opinion-based. If an ECMA person shows up with documentation of why the decision was made, maybe that's concrete enough... I'm not going to hold my breath though.
    – Dan Lowe
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 16:22
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    I agree somewhat about the dns one, if anybody would start implementing a dns server or client they might wonder the same thing. When someone uses substr or substring they normally are not bothered by the anecdote from Brendan Eich why they were forced to cripple that widespread language with another monster.
    – rene
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 16:28
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    Your inability to answer the question shouldn't factor into it being on-topic. It is true that only Brendan Eich (or someone similar) could answer it, but that doesn't make it a bad question, it just makes it a question that is hard to answer. Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 19:33
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Correcting the invalid premise of your question is in fact the recommended response to a question with a false premise

"Why is the library designed with these two functions that do the same thing?" cannot be answered when the two functions do not do the same thing.

Answers aren't ignoring your "Why?" and telling you "How." instead (which sometimes is a real problem), they're explaining that you have asked about something that does not even exist.

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I think it's on-topic.

There are three possible situations:

  • There is a definitive answer somewhere, for example one of the authors could have said something about it in an interview. If this is the case, a non-opinion-based answer can be provided by anyone who finds the information.

  • There could be very good obvious reasons why an additional feature is needed.

  • Only the authors know, and they never spoke about it.

So I think such questions should be on-topic, because there is a real chance that there is a good, non-opinion-based answer. It is not the askers fault if opinion-based answers are added.

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    I fail to understand why a question that only asks for the historical background has practical value for a developer that want to use either one of those functions. There are for every language several cases where design decisions have been made. Judging your answer we can have all those questions and they are all OK because despite the opinionated answers on them, the question has value. I beg to differ.
    – rene
    Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 15:44
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    Knowing the history helps to understand the present. If for example there are two mostly identical features, I want to know which is the more modern one. In C++ for example, you could write all programs with struct, but everybody uses class.
    – alain
    Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 18:55
  • Ok, fast forward 10 years: which one IS the more modern one? If you ask a question about a typical usecase in the context of problem you want to solve that question is still useful in 10 years. It might have new answers (you can use blobs then) but the existing ones still hold. I'm not sure if that is true for the modern one.
    – rene
    Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 19:09
  • I don't see a big difference between technical an 'history' questions here: New possibilities make some old technical answers obsolete or even deprecated, and old answers about history incomplete.
    – alain
    Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 19:52
  • Ok, fair point.
    – rene
    Commented Sep 21, 2015 at 20:16
  • @alain struct/class is not a great example, because they have exactly the same functionality and there is no real need to have both. I basically use them interchangeably. But in my experience, every time I have learnt something about the history of a language, it has been beneficial. For example, it is good to know if things are done in a certain way for a good reason or because of a historical accident (in which case, one might search for better alternatives.) Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 7:33
  • With the struct/class example I wanted to say that I think the existence of struct can only be explained historically, and we should be allowed to write about that on SO. Otherwise I completely agree with your comment!
    – alain
    Commented Sep 22, 2015 at 9:41
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I think this question should be closed as either off-topic or opinion-based. It is about the intentions ("why?") of the language designers. Therefore:

  • There is no reproducible, testable answer to be had.
  • The only people who can give an authoritative answer are the language designers, because only they know what was in their mind.
  • Even if the language designers do answer, we have to take their account at face value. There is no way to check.

As a consequence, this question has attracted answers that do not and cannot satisfy the OP. For every answer and explanatory comment from answerers, the OP dives deeper into the "yes, but why?" rabbit hole.

This and similar questions about intent are a drag on quality, hence I think they should be closed.

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  • the "yes, but why" rabbit hole is all what makes research advance. Those questions tend to be those, where one can learn most on SO. Sure, there tend to be plenty of useless answers, but I'd rather downvote those than the question. Even if none of the language designers reply, there are sometimes people who have enough insight to know "a" reason. It might not be "the only" reason, but it still helps understanding.
    – Sebastian
    Commented Sep 9, 2022 at 9:56

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