17

I'm raising this question based on a question I've just seen posted in the C# tag, where it more or less sounds to me like based on their comment, the OP never intended to put in any effort into solving their own problem and instead just quickly posted a question to get an answer (presumably without ever looking if it is a duplicate either).

So I checked the 2 minute tour and this does state "Focus on questions about an actual problem you have faced. Include details about what you have tried and exactly what you are trying to do." but this is just a guideline, not a rule.

This isn't an isolated issue by any means and the ratio of questions that show effort to those that don't sways to the more unfavourable side, yet those questions still get (occasional) upvotes and answers.

So my question is this:

Am I being too harsh on these users and should begin to just provide quick answers for this "question and answer site" or continue with my current trend of "downvote and vote to close as unclear/broad/duplicate etc" since they do not show research effort and chances are there are duplicates either on here or google?

16
  • 8
    The question is unclear and thus useless, it should be closed as such and downvoted. And the official stance on this is that no effort is required, but many community members think that it should be.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 11:18
  • 27
    @l4mpi: I thought the official stance was that a question shouldn't be closed for no effort, but that it was entirely reasonable to downvote it. That's why "does not show any research effort" is in the hover for the downvote button.
    – Jon Skeet
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 11:27
  • Yeah I'm definitely one of those that effort should be shown since it gives you a better platform for an answer and that the op is actually looking for a solution to an actual problem rather than free labour
    – Sayse
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 11:34
  • 1
    @JonSkeet my comment was a bit unclear, but I wasn't talking about votes but about what makes a question acceptable on SO (in the eyes of the powers that be, not neccessarily a huge part of the community). That a question should not be closed for lack of effort means effort is in no way a factor to a question being acceptable for this site or not. The official stance is also "you can up/downvote for whatever you want as long as you don't target a specific user". It's a guideline that people are encouraged to research, but it's not enforced in any way.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 11:38
  • 1
    @Sayse I'm also one of those which think that effort should be shown, why? give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime <- So simple!, so the guys which are just answering questions with no effort shown are doing the first thing. BUT these guys which wants to see effort or give hints to OP so that he's able to solve the problem by himself! That's the second thing. So now you can decide which one you choose to do
    – Rizier123
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 12:10
  • 2
    @Sayse Also another simple example would be: How would you educate your children? A) If they clap in their hands that they get everything they want OR B) You have to do something to get something ? So for the questions it would be: A) They get an answer every time and don't have to do anything B) They have to show some effort to get an answer
    – Rizier123
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 12:16
  • 5
    Note that many of the top voted questions of all time show very little or no 'research effort'. Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 12:22
  • 5
    @Carpetsmoker also note that most of those (disregarding the --> question and a handful of others) are either a very useful reference or an interesting problem. The same cannot be said for all but a very few of the "no effort" question that flood SO nowadays, as they usually are a variant of "I am new to programming and have no idea how to do this task [dump]" and similar useless junk.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 12:40
  • 4
    @Carpetsmoker so? Because someone else upvoted a question in a different time under a different set of requirements and have had exposure via google search for nearly a decade doesn't mean that new questions should be judged by those simiarlly lax standards with the hope that they'll have 6k upvotes in 10 years.
    – user289086
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 13:38
  • 7
    @Carpetsmoker A lot of older questions on Stack have to be seen as a different era, different ballgame altogether. Questions 2 or 3+ years ago and back to the beginning of Stack could be asking "how do I use mysql_query" and "How do I search an array with some function?". These are great, because they are the first of their kind, But the exact same questions are terrible today, because today's standards are set based on the fact those older questions already exist and already cover all the very basic things.
    – James
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 16:48
  • related: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/210840/…
    – chue x
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 0:31
  • I differentiate between 'newbie' questions and 'lazy' questions. An inexperience person will ask basic stuff. I'm generally happy to respond with a simple bit of code to illustrate the concept. (But generalised, so it's an example rather than a solution). Either way - lazy is a downvote reason, not a close reason. (Unless it's also offtopic or too broad which isn't that uncommon).
    – Sobrique
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 9:59
  • There's no rule they have to show effort, but there's also no rule that says I have to bother answering and definitely nothing stopping me from downvoting or voting to close if I think the question warrants it. Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 11:17
  • This is why I raised the idea of removing the -1 rep penalty for downvoting answers. If there was more incentive for downvoting asnwers, there would be less incentive for answering crappy questions (because people would downvote both question and answer).
    – user764357
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 23:10
  • Here is another great question that illustrates this: stackoverflow.com/questions/29134366/…
    – user764357
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 23:16

3 Answers 3

6

Am I being too harsh on these users and should begin to just provide quick answers for this "question and answer site"

That is your call. We all have to decide such things ourselves, as a varied opinion can be a good thing (usually).

Of course, you're asking for others' opinions to help you decide, so...

There are many considerations at play here.
By allowing such questions to exist, not voting to close, not downvoting, and people answering them, we show them and other users these questions are "allowed here".

As they've learned they'll get their answer from someone, they ignore our comments asking for more info, what have you tried etc, and so we lose the ability to get them to help themselves in the future (which is better for them/us/the site).

The most frustrating thing is many people do answer these questions.
I can only wonder what they value their own time at.

However, there is a fine line between:

  1. Asking for blocks of code with no effort or good explanation, and when it is localised to some code they need
  2. How to do something a bit more generic, which is not a dupe and might help other users

Other side:
Often people are not good at knowing what to provide in a question. And so when a comment prompts OP to add more question data and they do it, or they are replying to questions in comments, then usually an answer is deserved imo.

Otherwise, I downvote and flag, where appropriate.
If not really appropriate I just sigh and move on, and let someone answer it and waste their time (which bothers me, but what can one do?).


Relevant:
https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/270938/2632129

From Robert Harvey's answer, I take the question you linked to as "Work orders", and should be flagged as "too broad".
But then, I don't fully grasp the entire definition or when to accurately apply this.

The flags could be named/worded better, but that's a load of other debates..

7
  • 9
    "Often people are not good at knowing what to provide in a question." That's why we have a lot of help articles etc, which the OP should have read (they'll have been walked through them) before asking a question.
    – Jon Skeet
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 12:01
  • @JonSkeet I entirely agree, and inexcusable to have not read them, but I wouldn't say we can downvote and/or flag to close on that basis alone. Especially if they apologise and answer the prompts we give in comments. The help center is quite a lot to read especially for new users.
    – James
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 12:04
  • 5
    I think it's entirely reasonable to downvote on that basis (the question is bad, after all), but then remove the downvote if the question is improved.
    – Jon Skeet
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 12:07
  • @JonSkeet Hmm, you're right - downvote is reasonable, I retract that. I tend not to go back to Qs I've dvoted though, so my vote remains unless I'm active in the question. That's maybe why I'm more forgiving.
    – James
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 12:15
  • 1
    @James its really easy to go to the profile page, votes, down vote and then walk through that list to see if they are improved. I warn you, going through that list can be rather disappointing (few people modify their questions given votes - many have answers and they're happy with just getting their answer no matter how bad the question).
    – user289086
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 13:36
  • @MichaelT I wholeheartedly agree, I hate the fact they just want the answer. You can see it as they're not responding to any comments, and then an answer appears and they start posting comments to the answerer about what is wrong, what they want changing, or adding, etc. Although not all new users with a bad question or two are like that. Some do improve - and to be honest, I reckon it's probably a whole 10th of a percent too! ... sigh...
    – James
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 16:37
  • Thanks for your answer, "what can one do" is one of the reasons I couple my downvote with a close vote (Can't enable someone to keep writing bad questions if you can stop people answering them all the time!). I don't necessarily agree with Robert Harvey since the Unclear reason starts by saying "Please clarify your specific problem".
    – Sayse
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 7:28
10

My auto-comment to that question is:

Please don't just ask us to solve the problem for you. Show us how you tried to solve the problem yourself, then show us exactly what the result was, and tell us why you feel it didn't work. See "What Have You Tried?" for an excellent article that you really need to read.

6
  • 4
    Slightly off topic in this context, but as we just discussed in the other meta question, your edit to that post was IMO absolutely unneccessary and even actively harmful - you bumped an answered -2 (now -3) question and now it takes away space from better questions. The fact that the edit was insubstantial makes this worse.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 11:21
  • Thanks for your response, does this mean you believe I should be downvoting and closing?
    – Sayse
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 11:35
  • 4
    @Sayse read the mouse over for a question down vote. It includes the text "[it] does not show any research effort". If this is the case, down vote the question. If the question is also unclear, too broad, opinion, a duplicate, or one of the off topic reasons, vote to close it for that reason (do not migrate a question that doesn't show research effort).
    – user289086
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 13:32
  • my personal preference goes for Kate Gregory's Unclear What Help You Need: "Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell what problem you are trying to solve or what aspect of your code needs to be corrected or explained. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question." (this also makes a nice custom close message if question deserves VtC)
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 15:22
  • 2
    @l4mpi: I'm very tired of hearing arguments based on question bumping. If this is a problem, then there needs to be a flag in the edit dialog (possibly only for 10k+ users) saying, "And don't bump the post so l4mpi doesn't get upset"). Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 23:21
  • @JohnSaunders I'm just as tired of hearing arguments that mostly minor mass editing of old crap you find via a search query is somehow important. And I'm far from alone with that view; similar discussions were had for mass retagging etc. I would be in favour of a rep-accessible "don't bump" feature, but see meta.stackoverflow.com/q/262813/1110381 for one discussion, and let me quote BoltClocks extremely relevant answer (emphasis mine): "I suggest you simply only edit posts that are in need of editing and put more time and effort into making your edits more substantial"
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 19, 2015 at 9:49
3

When I read a question, I try to put myself in the place of the person asking - was I ever in a position where my ignorance was deep enough that I did not know how to word the question I needed answered, or where to look for help? Of course I was, so I do give some latitude.

Sometimes I will put a lot of work into answering a question just because I want to see if I can solve the problem, even if the question is poorly asked, researched etc. Maybe I am enabling...

However, I don't spend any time on a question if it looks like homework with No Effort. I will ask for clarification if they are close, but I rarely downvote.

My computer science student son introduced me to Stackoverflow, and he told me he has never asked a question - he has been able to find everything with a search. It can be done!

In the end, you just have to judge each question, and offer help when you think it is appropriate and sometimes where it help you!

5
  • 2
    With respect, I think that latitude grinds down a little over time :). I haven't got a problem with people that don't know how to word their question since a lot of SO users nowadays don't use english as their first language. But your son is absolutely right, pretty much everything can be found with a search, and if it can't then you have just given yourself a lot of research that you can document in your question :)
    – Sayse
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 7:35
  • Yeah I often put myself in the OP's shoes when they post "Help me now, I need the code for X" (sarcasm)
    – user692942
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 9:46
  • 1
    i have not been answering for very long. Perhaps I will get more jaded (and sarcastic). :-)
    – KenSquare
    Commented Mar 19, 2015 at 1:55
  • 2
    @lankymart - sometimes where I'm in a particularly nasty mood and someone posts an obvious homework assignment I answer it, fully and completely, with meaningful comments, using features and techniques which may be surprisingly advanced. Hopefully when the instructor sees said answer they immediately question the (presumed) student about how it all works. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. But, really, I just gave them what they asked for... :-) Commented Mar 19, 2015 at 23:10
  • 2
    That is a little bit evil! But I get it... I wonder if it works. I remember when I first started programming (and I really just do this for fun) that I found "The 10 Commandments of Access" which taught me "Thou shalt not copy and paste other people's code without at least attempting to understand what it does." Great advice for any programming, and especially if you are taking a class!
    – KenSquare
    Commented Mar 20, 2015 at 0:00

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .