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A more recent scenario has occurred in which these expanded powers could be considered valuable without conflating this with the venerable dupehammer. Perhaps this needs to be revisited?


I've had some time to think about this, and I've decided to loosen the original request up from 1 gold badge holder to 3 gold badge holders. Binding votes are definitely something we want to be sure are used only in certain situations, but I feel that if three gold badge holders agree that a question is only "why isn't this working", then it should be put on hold.

The original request is mostly intact below, although there may be references to the original "binding vote". Disregard those if you come across it; I'm going to claim that it's 3 gold badge holders now.

Scenario

A user posts a question which describes a generic exception that they're encountering without any code or the actual error message itself. Typically it reads something like this:

Loop not working

I'm supposed to write a for loop to count numbers, by 3, but it's not working. I think that it has to do with the variable I'm using, so I tried changing it and adding 2, but that didn't work. Could you please figure out why ?

Code omitted for brevity

This is a terrible sort of question for a few reasons:

  • It's not clear as to what is wrong.
  • It's not going to be terribly useful to anyone searching that sort of exception message, as the body of the question is sorely lacking in context.

Why not let only 3 gold badge holders be able to cast a close vote on questions of this sort?

Arguments for:

  • Lets those that hold a gold badge in the tag close the question comparatively quickly to prevent half-complete or half-informed answers.
  • Reduces the clutter and noise of questions of this sort, since a clear message is being sent to include all relevant information in their question.
  • Allows a gold badge holder to instantly reopen a question that does provide this information, further promoting the true intent of question closure.

Arguments against:

  • Gives gold badge holders even more power and authority which can be subject to abuse.
  • Can be prone to misuse (e.g. a gold badge holder only closing a question with this reason because it's unclear, not because it's a "why isn't this code working" question)
  • Will see a higher, biased usage in questions that directly deal with code, as opposed to those that don't (e.g. Git, CVS, Mercurial, etc).

To address the legitimate concern that this may be a slippery slope: yes, it is yet another privilege that gold badge holders gain for another arbitrary close reason. But, I'd like to clarify my stance on that.

  • Close as Duplicate serves as a signpost for users who were unaware that their question had already been asked, and has a good answer. Allowing insta-close only strengthens that signpost.

  • Putting "why isn't this code working" on hold would serve as a signpost for users who are unaware of the vagueness of their question, and give them a legitimate chance to fix their question. (Of course, they're still subject to gang downvoting, but there's not much one could do about that...)

My intention is to use this insta-close as a way to gently remind those who ask questions here that they need to be complete, and that the community does not enjoy grasping at straws or having long drawn "please post your code" comments with them.

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  • 4
    Can't goldbadgers already close these as duplicates of a canonical question for the exception/error? Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 20:50
  • 16
    In those scenarios, yes. But those scenarios don't normally apply to the more generic "why isn't my code working" sort of question that I'm targeting here.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 20:51
  • You should provide a better example so readers like me don't jump to conclusions about your proposal. Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 20:52
  • 14
    I don't know what's wrong with the example presented here, @Jeffrey. Although you could close questions with insufficient information as duplicates of a canonical question just to get them closed, that would arguably be an abuse of the closure system. Those questions should rightly be closed as lacking sufficient information, not as duplicates. We don't know if they're duplicates yet, they don't have information to tell.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 6:51
  • 1
    The second argument against isn't really an issue, since if a question gets wrongly closed, any other gold badge holder can instantly reopen it. And I don't know why the third argument against is a problem—that close vote reason is only applicable to these types of questions, so the fact that it gets used primarily against them isn't misuse. The first argument against is the only real issue, and team members have said several times that gold badge holders have been using the dupe-closure powers responsibly.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 6:54
  • 1
    Why gold? Why not something like people with steward in the CV queue or something?
    – bjb568
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 17:33
  • 3
    A canonical question is just that. If it doesnt fit the problem, edit it so that it does. Then close as a dupe. If you look at the c# null exception canonical question, it covers every scenario. These should be closed as dupes.
    – crthompson
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 17:36
  • 1
    @bjb568: This sort of power should be given to those members of the community who have an established experience with the tagged question, rather than those that [might have] blindly earned the Steward badge(s). There's a lot more effort to getting a gold badge in a tag than there is reviewing stuff. (Nevermind the fact that Steward is gold.)
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 17:56
  • 1
    a) Why would you need "established experience with the tagged question"? b) If you can find a single example of somebody who blindly earned a steward badge in close votes, I'll be amazed. c) "There's a lot more effort to getting a gold badge in a tag than there is reviewing stuff" How? Why is that relevant? Is that good or bad?
    – bjb568
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 18:01
  • The idea is to minimize abuse. Sure, I could see most Python and C questions as lacking detail (and I'd vote to close accordingly), but I'd really rather empower those gold badge owners in those tags instead. Second, "blindly" may have been the wrong word; I probably meant "blithely". There's been a lot of complaints over the years about "robo reviewers". I'm not sure I care either way, so long as a minimal, capable subset of users gets this privilege.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 18:06
  • 3
    Two reasons come to mind, @bjb568. The first is pretty basic—gold tag badge holders have proven themselves experts in that particular topic, which makes them particularly qualified to assess the quality/appropriateness of a question about that topic. Sure, someone with a lot of experience reviewing might be able to as well, but there is less of a guarantee. You get the Steward badge just for trying, not succeeding. The second reason is a little more philosophical: our real goal here is to get good answers to questions, so gold tag badges are something we should be promoting and rewarding.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 6:43
  • 1
    Can we rename them from goldbadgers to honeybadgers? Honey is gold in color.
    – CommaToast
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 7:25
  • 1
    @Chris They are the same feature. Closed questions are just referred to by the system as being "on hold" for something like the first 4–5 days. It is a fairly recent change, intended to both soften the perceived blow of having your question closed and make it more obvious how the closure system is supposed to work (closed questions get edited, then re-opened). It hasn't lived up to expectations.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 8:28
  • Why do you need specific tag knowledge to close help vamp questions? They're fairly obvious.
    – bjb568
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 16:47
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    @mlvljr: You don't have a gold tag badge, which is what the original feature proposal centers around. You also don't have any gold review badges, which is something I'd be fine with weakening the request to. If you thought you were going to have some fun with this...you're in for a rude awakening.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 16:22

2 Answers 2

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My concern with this proposal is that giving gold badge holders special powers for specific close reasons seems somewhat arbitrary.

I agree that gold badge holders would (mostly) be very qualified to close these types of questions. And closing them quickly is a valid goal. But we have 11 close reasons, including the sub-items under Off-Topic. I think you could make exactly the same point for most of the others. Let's pick a few, and try out how the argument could sound:

  • Primarily Opinion-Based: Gold badge holders know as well as anybody what types of questions in their domain tend to bring out the opinion based answers and arguments, and which questions can be answered objectively.

  • Too Broad: It seems like some tags are more tolerant of relatively broad questions than others. Gold badge holders know the standard for their tags, and can make a better decision than arbitrary reviewers who are not familiar with the domain.

  • Unclear What You're Asking: Gold badge holders who know the topic very well can make a better decision on whether a question is clear enough to be answered than a random set of reviewers who might not understand the topic of the question at all.

If I wrote these in more detail, I believe I could make an argument that was just as convincing as the one you made why gold badge holders should be able to determine these close reasons unanimously. And the same applies to most other close reasons.

I'm not necessarily against giving gold badge holders more power. But I think that it should be a broader discussion, and not focused on one specific close reason.

I'm aware that a precedent in this direction was already set with the dupe hammer. But I'm still not in favor of adding special powers for close reasons one by one without looking at the big picture first.

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  • I'd counter that with saying that the idea behind close-as-duplicate was to provide question askers with a valid answer to their question (which had been asked already on the site). I view this proposal in the same way; it brings askers who don't post a lot of details to their question in line with what we want to see on the site. You could certainly argue that the trend is what you describe, and from an outside view, you're probably right. But, I'd like to give this privilege to a group of users that could be trusted. Doesn't have to be gold tag owners.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 4:28
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    I read your answer as advocating for giving gold tag badge holders the ability to close questions for any of the canned reasons. Please post that as a new [feature-request] so that I may upvote it.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 6:40
  • 2
    @CodyGray: That's not exactly what I wrote. My main point was that doing this for only one specific close reason was arbitrary, and that there should be a broader discussion about the special powers of gold tag badge holders. Allowing them to close for all the provided reasons would be one option. Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 6:11
  • 2
    Disagree with the analysis. "Not enough information" is a lot more objective and specific than "too broad" or "opinion-based". Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 15:39
-9

When I get a specific error message that I do not understand I will often google it.

If google yields me no hits my reaction will often be "what? impossible that nobody has ever encountered this error before!!".

Much of the time however I will find that google gives me a result on this site. Now I will be able to see what the solution might be.

Of course the user should explain roughly what they were doing to get such an error message. And of course they should research it too. And they should try to get a minimal example to reproduce, however I think "what does this error mean, what might I be doing that gets me it"? is a valid question.

I think it's too easy for even a gold badge poster to be too quick to close based on "reproducible by a typo" or any other reason that related to the bug itself and not the message it yielded.

Of course if the same question, with the error message, has been asked before here it will no doubt be marked by one as a duplicate and it will be closed quickly enough, but I don't think it should be closable by one user.

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    What does this have to do with the question at hand of letting a single gold-badge user close certain questions vs. requiring five users (or a diamond mod)?
    – nobody
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 16:15
  • Are there gold badge holders to error messages?
    – CashCow
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 16:20
  • 1
    If a user is a gold badge in a tag, chances are high that they have encountered a similar problem before.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 16:23
  • No, they're expert and never make mistakes :)
    – CashCow
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 18:18
  • I think the original post probably could have used some editing to make the question more relevant. This is specially true if the user had googled the message and still didn't understand the error, and what it meant. As such, giving gold members a close ability for this seems, well, counter productive.
    – Brian Webb
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 18:43
  • I'll edit the question later to better clarify the kinds of questions I'm targeting.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 21:12

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