24

I would like to see one of the reasons for closing questions changed. Specifically as mentioned in a comment to the War of the closes (which I'll repeat here).


I disagree with the wording of one possible suggestion.

Questions concerning problems with code you’ve written must describe the specific problem and include valid code to reproduce it. See SSCCE.org for guidance.

This implies the person asking the question ‘must’ supply an SSCCE, whereas the SSCCE document itself contradicts that. Vis.

Let us assume you are indeed genuine in your learning, you have a huge, complex system with an occasional, unpredictable bug, and you have searched the FAQ & Group, studied the manual or documentation and not produced an answer.

Feel free to describe the problem to the group; perhaps it is a basic misunderstanding on your part that can easily be cleared up.

I am not proposing that every single problem needs a SSCCE in order to be solved. I am also not suggesting an example is, or should be, compulsory.

It will, however, make people much more likely to help, and will therefore increase the chance of finding a solution.

As the author of the SSCCE document, I stick by that caveat. There are people who are capable of narrowing a problem down to a few snippets of code, and other people who are willing to eye-ball that code, looking for errors.

IMO it would be better if that read..

Questions concerning problems with code you’ve written must describe the specific problem and should ideally include valid code to reproduce it. See SSCCE.org for guidance on the latter.


While I cannot be certain, I suspect the current message partly fueled the vehemence of people with whom I was discussing the matter on Is this a bug in Java's for-loop?

An SSCCE should never have been implied to be 'compulsory'.

Can the message be changed?

5
  • 4
    Glad to know that you're a civilized professional and prefer to post a great question on meta instead of start arguing (because IMO we weren't arguing in the comments, just comparing POVs about this SSCCE rule). I would really like to see the conclusion of this. Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 6:23
  • @LuiggiMendoza "just comparing POVs" Same thought here. It's all good, but boy would I like to see that message changed.. :) Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 6:25
  • Let's see what community thinks about it Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 6:26
  • 2
    Didn't follow the earlier discussion, just nitpicking: snippets can be valid code (if they would be compileable when "thinking" the context around them). So adding ideally valid code doesn't change so much in that sentence, IMO. Should be: exact description of the expected vs. the experienced, valid code as needed which ideally is a SSCCE.
    – kleopatra
    Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 8:48
  • 1
    On drupal.stackexchange.com SSCCE would usually be a complete module. For most questions it's a waste of time, ie relevant part of form building function and ajax callback function are usually good enough to diagnose form api ajax problems. For programming questions with drupal tag it will look the same. Who needs whole module if problem is with module-provided javascript under IE10? et cetera.
    – Mołot
    Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 9:10

3 Answers 3

7

I've come around to the idea that this is the wrong tool for the job here, and plan to remove the link from the close reason entirely (along with other adjustments to the wording and intent).

First though, I'd like to come up with a SO-specific bit of guidance for folks who should be including some code in their questions. See: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/214955/can-we-create-a-help-center-topic-that-outlines-what-a-sscce-mwe-means-for-sta

0
8

I'm not a fan of wiggle room in close reasons. We've seen where that leads. I'm a fan of wiggle room in the application of close reasons.

I believe putting the word 'ideally' puts wiggle room into the close reason that is wide enough to drive a truck through. We're still dealing with meta questions regarding "Why was this question closed? It follows the FAQ. It's about tools commonly used by programmers!" when it's really about what color your IDE is.

Hopefully the people with enough reputation have the judgment to not close a question if the user adequately describes their issue, even if it does not include an SSCCE.

If you believe a question was closed wrongly, vote to re-open it, flag it, raise it on meta. There are plenty of options available that don't make the exception the rule.

4
  • Please see my comment to a question itself - what if SSCCE is actually about 10 times bigger than code really needed to understand and answer issue? Should it still be wrong by the rules as written?
    – Mołot
    Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 13:02
  • So, programming problems in Drupal modules should never be discussed here? As Self Contained with Form API would require 2 files (.info and .module), and menu building functions in addition to form itself - and there is no way to make truly self contained any shorter. And anyone who knows Drupal would just ignore .info file anyway, and only give a glance to menu building stuff. The interesting part is way not enough to be 'copied, pasted, compiled, run', and usually can't really be pasted into existing module.
    – Mołot
    Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 13:32
  • 2
    Honestly, I think we agree what should be accepted and what should be closed, just differ in a way we think ruling should look like to achieve this with least problems.
    – Mołot
    Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 14:19
  • 3
    I agree with @Mołot & feel that if there is no 'wriggle room' then the SSCCE is the wrong document to link to.. As far as I go with recommending it, is only to the extent of "For better help sooner, post an SSCCE." There are also those problems as described in Drupal (as well as a slew of them in Java & I presume 'insert favorite language here') for which an SSCCE is clearly impractical. Commented Jul 15, 2013 at 8:40
5

I would go with something like:

Questions concerning problems with code you’ve written must describe the specific problem and include code responsible for that problem. Ideally include minimal code needed to reproduce it. See SSCCE.org for guidance.

It insist on providing code a bit more. Question about code must include code. Not always SSCCE, but the code in question have to be, well, in question.

Maybe "Ideally" should be replaced with something like "if it is practical" or "if feasible"? Point is - sometimes custom code that shows where problem is needs to be wrapped into big repeatable chunk of code to be SSCCE. I don't think we always want that. When talking about forms in CMS, we don't really need to see how that form was added to the menu system, how the CMS module containing it was named and so on, for example. All we need is to see how the form itself is defined.

3
  • ehh .. full code would be too inviting the suboptimal: they'll dump zips with tons of lines :-)
    – kleopatra
    Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 8:54
  • 1
    @kleopatra corrected. But my point was: problematic code = required, sscce = advised. Feel free to correct my language to represent that. (Sorry, my English isn't as good as I would want it to be)
    – Mołot
    Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 8:56
  • I think it reads well now. Further, I'm very open to whatever text best expresses the point. So far, I prefer your version to mine. Commented Jul 12, 2013 at 8:58

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .