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I was browsing the front-page of Meta, and I noticed off to the right a very strange and kind of inappropriate name for a chat room:

Screenshot

However, when I look at the chat room info directly, the name of the room appears as

Lounge<C++>

Questions

  1. Are chat rooms allowed to be named after genitalia?

  2. Why does the name appear like that in the sidebar, but not on the room's own page?

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    This whole thing is reminiscent of this: arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/… , which I thought was a massively terrible reaction on the woman's part. Immature? Absolutely. Most terrible thing ever in the world? Nope. Every community has a culture, and subcultures within. If you're coming into a community such as this (broadly, computer science nerds and specifically SO chat), I don't think it is helpful to show up with your own set of values and get offended when the community doesn't mirror them exactly. Commented May 21, 2014 at 14:08
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    Given the whole Women In Tech discussion currently going on in the tech community broadly, I don't think this is an overreaction. If we want our profession to be welcoming to women, then this kind of thing is not appropriate on one of the biggest programming Q&A sites on the Internet. Commented May 21, 2014 at 18:29
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    @CharlieKilian Is it any wronger than to name a room after a penis? I don't see how this is sexist, just immature, and how it would be any more repellant to women joining the field than any other bit of immaturity.
    – Sled
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 13:45
  • 50
    Just to be clear: naming chatrooms after genitalia on a programming Q&A site is a stupid idea regardless of whose genitalia we're talking about. Wiping the rest of this comment discussion, again, and locking this because y'all seem intent on repeatedly missing the point here.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:48
  • 1
    @RichardChambers, please don't tag questions with code-of-conduct unless the questions are explicitly about the code of conduct, for example, discussing if aspects of the CoC should change.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 14:57
  • 1
    @Cerbrus they updated the tag's wiki too.
    – Sabito
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 15:20
  • 2
    I noticed. He's been very prolific adding a lot of noise to meta's tag wikis... I've reverted a few, but this is beyond what a single user should do (That includes himself deciding it should be done). I've flagged it for mod attention.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Mar 3, 2021 at 15:21

5 Answers 5

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OK here are my observations and thoughts on this whole issue:

(you'll notice I didn't answer the two-parter in the original question, that's because everything that follows addresses the first part, and I don't know the answer to the second)

Stack Overflow's content policies

Not that you people are babies and need to be reminded of such banal trivia from time to time, but from the about page:

Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and enthusiast programmers.

Based on that I think we can pretty much assume that content on our site needs to be reasonably professional, or at the very least, safe for work, since a large portion of its userbase is likely to use it at work, including Stack Overflow chat.

See also the terms of service.

What that has got to do with chat

Stack Overflow chat is part of Stack Overflow. It's even in the domain. But if you want to get really technical, there is a link to the ToS in the footer on every page load, even in the chat subdomain. It's the same one that applies to Q&A proper, not just on SO, but on every other site on the network.

So, I think we can all conclude that chat is bound by the same terms and conditions as Q&A proper. While of course the legal terms don't stipulate what sort of atmosphere an online community is supposed to carry, at the very least they imply a general policy or guideline that content should be safe for work, even though chat conversations tend to be less formal and not always on-topic all of the time.

In fact, even if the whole point of the Lounge is simply to be a place for people who just happen to have met with the unfortunate fate of having to work with C++ to cry about how abominable the language is and how they need a better job and a spouse and a dog and a cat and a car and a chainsaw, personally I think that's OK, as long as nobody is using it for harassment or witch hunting or online dating or posting explicit imagery or some such. I for one don't really know why the hell I go to the Lounge when I don't even use C++, but folks like that guy Mysticial seem to like me, so.

I'm going to agree with Lightness Races in Orbit as well as the OP that a name that refers to genitalia or any other... sensitive term, is not OK. If you would flag a user for having an inappropriate display name, there's no reason to treat a room name any differently.

If you didn't realize that chat rooms weren't being periodically advertised on Q&A proper, that's fine, but it doesn't make the room name any less inappropriate. A room name is just as public as a user's display name, even if Q&A didn't periodically display widgets linking to chat rooms, because, FYI, chat has its own front page too.

How people feel about it

  • Everyone else — including management and a few Loungers — thinks that name is not OK and the room should never have had that name, because Stack Overflow is a professional site and people need to maintain some self-respect or whatever.

  • The people who don't agree think that the rules about professionalism and SFWness don't apply to chat, either because it isn't part of Q&A proper, or because the whole point of chat was to get away from the professional environment and therefore anything goes.

Personally I think it's sort of like lunch breaks at work. You're not technically in the office, you can spend the time however you like, you can talk about anything you like, you can call one another idiots (let's face it, you guys were being complete idiots today), but you're still expected to conduct yourselves like decent human beings and not unruly little shits to hell with the system (did I say little shits? I'm sorry).

I don't know about anywhere else, but on Stack Overflow, there is a line to be drawn on what sort of stuff is appropriate, and that line was cruised over by a mile and a half.

I'm probably gonna get disowned now :'(

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    It's okay; I will still love you. Commented May 17, 2014 at 1:42
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    Adoration Races towards BoltClock
    – user3010322
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 1:43
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    If the primary purpose of the room is not actually to talk about C++, then I think it would be significantly less confusing to outsiders, such as myself, if the room were just named and tagged more appropriately, like "Goofing Off, Anything Goes", and giving clear warnings in the room description that there will probably be offensive language used and offensive topics discussed. That would seem ok to me, as far as such a thing is hosted by Stack Overflow.
    – user456814
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 6:33
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    I've always looked on the Lounge as the sofa under the stairs, just outside the office/lab, next to the coffee machine, where you can go and escape when the mails, calls, co-workers, compiler and linker are just too much and you need a time-out. As such, you're never sure who's listening... It might be the hot sysadmin who just started in the ofice next door, or it might be the boss, straight out of a bad meeting, determined to 86 someone, anyone, before the day is out. Commented May 17, 2014 at 6:36
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    Just call it simply "The Lounge", the Stack Overflow equivalent to The Tavern. The warnings about explicit language and topics will also help reduce false flagging in that room.
    – user456814
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 7:13
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    @Cupcake - not sure. I do enjoy, and learn from, the tech. C++ threads in the Lounge, (yes, they do happen:). I like the mix of tech. and threads re. pizza toppings. Despite the occasional OTT deviations from what might be considered 'professional discourse', I' m not convinced that it would be an advantage to SO as a whole to freely open the doors of the current Lounge<C++> to vampires and dumpers from PHP, Android etc. There are enough as it is. Nothing to stop someone opening a 'Lounge<SQL>' should they wish.. Commented May 17, 2014 at 7:43
  • note: this linked Q&A is deleted: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/255214/swearing-in-chat.
    – starball
    Commented Nov 13, 2022 at 20:21
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Contrary to what the infantile room owners seem to believe, the Lounge is a part of Stack Overflow and, as such, this room name was absolutely inappropriate.

I say this as a regular in the Lounge.

The reason for the name discrepancy is a combination of caching and the Lounge's owners' habit of frequently vibrating through a host of ridiculous names in order to flex their anarchist "we're not part of your system" muscles.

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    "to flex their anarchist "we're not part of your system" muscles" -- I'd have thought you've been in the Lounge long enough to know that that's not why we change the room name. We changed it all the time, and simply because we thought of a funny one. The base name of the room, "Lounge", hasn't changed either in 90% of the cases, just what's in the angle brackets.
    – Xeo
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 6:51
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    @Xeo How is that name funny? Yeah right, maybe if your 12.
    – user692942
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 13:30
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    @Lankymart: Well you're right there. Commented May 21, 2014 at 14:17
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    I hope a precedent is set here and this kind of behaviour restricted/stopped/explicitly banned; because [a] I agree with you and [b] I don't want to see SO (or any part of it) turn into the next Yahoo! Chat :/ What's next? a/s/l? Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:22
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    We've already had to deal with a/s/l, @Burhan - folks who repeatedly harass other users for personal contact information tend to find their chatrooms deleted, along with their chat accounts and often main-site accounts.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 15:10
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    @BurhanKhalid, obviously no one should be asking for A/S/L because that information is already available on users' profile pages and asking for it again would be a violation of the DRY principle.
    – zzzzBov
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 16:58
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First time on meta here, but I felt compelled to respond. Feel free to disregard.

While I think our society has a problem with over-eagerly labeling things anti-woman, I don't think this is a case of that. Assuming that every person you interact with on here is a guy is one thing--it's perhaps born of experience (never meeting a female programmer), and not of malice toward women. The issue at hand (especially the defense) is problematic, though, for several reasons:

1) It is anti-woman While one's conscious thought might not be "I'm going to do this because I don't like women", creating a room with such a name and then defending it communicates that stronger than the explicit thought could.

2) It is off-off-off-off-topic Even setting aside the potentially subjective space of "professionalism", this website has a purpose. If your purpose is to make potentially offensive jokes (even on a small scale like this), perhaps you should head someplace else when you're of that mind. Perhaps we can't fault you for trying, but if you run up against the wall of everyone else's opinion, it's hard to argue that such things should rightfully remain here.

3) It reflects poorly on the site Stackoverflow is consistently in the top results when I search for answers to a programming problem. It is entirely possible that a new programmer (or one new to Stackoverflow) will find SO through google. Like it or not, anything that happens on this domain contributes to or detracts from SO's reputation.

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    So Lounge<Brian's Penis> would be anti-man?
    – user703016
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:25
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    It cannot be anti-women to simply name a part of their anatomy.
    – Puppy
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:26
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    -1 for point #1, +1 for points #2 and #3 (which are absolutely correct), and ± for #4 (which is utterly nonsensical, so far as I can tell). You're also being more than a little bigoted in going so far as to accuse people of never having met a female programmer, based solely of your personal view on what would and would not be offensive to any particular hypothetical female programmer. Perhaps you've only ever met female programmers who are massively over-sensitive. Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:28
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    Sounds like you're asserting, then, that women are, as a people group, demonstrably uncomfortable with references to their genitals in this format, that being your definition of "anti-woman", by symmetry. Care to provide any evidence whatsoever? Or do you just assume that women are overly sensitive about such references? Because that's got a name, y'know: sexism. Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:31
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    Never had any issue discussing genitalia with any woman I know. I know, anecdotal and all, but still. Maybe I just hang out with progressive people. Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:32
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    I've met very few women who are comfortable discussing or even mentioning something that private in public. But the real kicker for the "anti-woman" label is the mentality that if men aren't uncomfortable at the word "penis" then women shouldn't be uncomfortable at its feminine counterpart. And I wasn't accusing anyone of never having met a female programmer. I was trying to make the point that assuming all-male would be more understandable, because it's possible in this profession to have never met a female programmer. Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:35
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    The fact that vaginas exist is hardly "private". Is US culture really still this archaic? I'm genuinely astounded. Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:36
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit Opinions on what women are comfortable with based on three decades of interaction are not evidence of sexism: they are evidence of a person's observation. I don't think tossing out "bigot" and "sexism" help advance the discussion--why not stick to engaging what I've said instead of hitting me with your label-maker (and that's not to say you haven't engaged what I've said, either--just that the labels are often more an attempt to end a conversation than engage in one). Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:38
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    Yes, I am trying to end this conversation, because it's become clear to me that it'll only become constructive and/or sensical once the USA has reached the same level of cultural enlightenment that the rest of the first world found three decades ago. Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:40
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    Feel free to let it be ended, then. I can't convince you (and, by the votes, I can't convince 3 or 4 others, either), and that's not really necessary. I'm content, at least, that we agree on points 2 and 3, because they are perhaps most relevant to this site, where your enlightened feet and my caveman knuckles happen to drag across the same plane. Commented May 22, 2014 at 14:44
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    I didn't consider it anti-woman. It's surely anti-rightfold, but nobody seems to care much about that :) Commented May 22, 2014 at 15:26
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    Its anti-women because its implying that "vagina-ownership" is an negative quality. "Look at Rightfold, acting like a total woman, with a vagina, AM I RIGHT FELLAS! Man up and be less of a pussy."
    – user764357
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 1:40
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    @LegoStormtroopr: No, that's if it said "Rightfold's a vagina". It did not. This was entirely not the context of the name; not in any way at all. You're totally making things up and doing so, presumably, on your own biases. Interesting. Commented May 26, 2014 at 22:09
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    I randomly lynch random lynchers in Mafia. Rightfold asked for the room name to refer to penises. It briefly amused me to twist his request a little- that's all. And if you are a random person wandering by, then you certainly have no idea that rightfold does not currently possess a vagina. The room topic doesn't state or imply any attitude towards vaginas or people who possess them. It merely states that rightfold is such a person.
    – Puppy
    Commented May 26, 2014 at 22:19
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    @MartinJames It was not anti-rightfold! It was more like a compliment!
    – user1804599
    Commented May 26, 2014 at 22:22
-1

I'd like to add my two cents on this discussion. I like at 50% the term "inappropriate" used by the OP. I like it because the chat name is. It is inappropriate for the same reason that we are told to not use variable names such as xyz. Someone going though the chat menu won't know what is it about (at least at first glance).
I don't like it because it is quite often used as offensive, and I don't think that the term vagina is. Of course in some phrase it could become offensive.

Here is a small digression to explain my point of view. My mother tongue is french. The fact is that in french (maybe also in some other languages) the first name Clitorine exists as well as the last name Lecul. I guess that I don't really have to explain why the first name is awkward and for those that don't understand french your can translate the last name by "Theass". That's two of many weird (and old) names that exist in french.

Now imagine some self-centred french girl (Clitorine is a girl's name) creating a chat room named like her. Would someone find it offending? Most probably if this person find vagina offensive and especially if they don't know the french culture (BTW it is a rare name), the answer would be yes. Would someone be right to find it offensive? I don't think so. However if one thinks it is an improper label for a chat room on SO I'd agree with one.
My point is that as long as we don't know what was in the head of the owner of the chat room, he should be given the benefit of the doubt (he still might have wanted to offend some people).

Now, I'd like to react also to the "unprofessional" qualifier. As much as I agree with the "behave as a professional" rule, I tend to be very caution with qualifying something or someone of unprofessional. I've notice in my job that this qualifier is often used as a dismissive answer to something that someone doesn't appreciate without the need to give any other explanation. Like "it is so obvious". As a matter of fact, I've been sometime labeled as "unprofessional" at work because I was stating things in a blunt manner. Please notice that I wasn't rude, I was just stating things like "this is a bad idea" instead of using politically correct phrases such as "There might be a better solution". The fact is that I can understand someone being pissed with the phrasing "you had a bad idea", but finally they were arguing about my phrasing and not about the idea...which finally could also have been thought as an unprofessional behavior.
In this particular case I'd say also this is unprofessional because this room was improperly labeled...no other reasons. But as someone highlighted in their comment this site is also for enthusiast programmers.

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    There's lots of hand-waving here, but not much clarity. FWIW, all it takes for moderators to take action on a user name or chat room name is that it has become a distraction, which this name certainly has. The notion that the SO community takes any position at all on political matters is fundamentally misguided; it's not why we're here.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 17:23
  • @Robert: My I ask you to nuke MSO? It's become a real distraction. :)
    – sbi
    Commented Feb 23, 2015 at 9:57
-54

To be entirely fair, I did not know that the room name was advertised outside the chat subsite. I will refrain from setting such names in the future (but certainly not Lounge<USA>, that's just not offensive in general).

Fundamentally, the Lounge is a place where we get away from serious conversations about C++. It's not a place where we actively want to attract people who want to have serious conversations about C++. We have the main site for that, or isocpp.org, or comp.lang.cxx or whatever. The only relation the Lounge has to C++ is that most of the original members were C++ coders- that's it. If you come in there looking for help with your C++ problem, you're gonna be mighty disappointed in the overwhelming case.

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    I'm sorry, but I really don't see how that's at all a valid defense here. The room's title was still completely inappropriate.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:08
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    @animuson: You seem to believe that I think it needs defending. It does not. It does, however, explain why there was a higher reaction than normal.
    – Puppy
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:10
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    I still don't see how "I didn't know" is a valid response to anything. It's an inappropriate name for the room and that's all that matters. It should have never been used, no matter where the title actually gets displayed.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:16
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    @animuson: The room discusses lots of totally inappropriate things, so an inappropriate title serves the function of a title, which is to inform users of what to expect.
    – Puppy
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:17
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    I get that this is chat and we have the tendency to be a lenient with what is going on within this room but the title and subject should not be something that could be deemed offensive by users outside of the room.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:18
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    Setting the name to Lounge<USA> is not appropriate either, if the room is tagged as C++. What if someone is trying to find a chat room for C++, but they can't find it because you changed the name? If you want to goof off, that's fine, but you should do it in a room explicitly created for that purpose.
    – user456814
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:28
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    @Cupcake: You assume that the Lounge is the room for C++. It's not. If you're trying to find a chat room to discuss your C++ problem, it's a good thing that you didn't find us, unless you happen to have a particularly interesting problem.
    – Puppy
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:33
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    @Cupcake The Lounge is created explicitly for that purpose Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:34
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    @Code-Guru then why is it tagged with C++?
    – user456814
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:34
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    @Cupcake Because we also every once in a while talk about C++ as well Commented May 16, 2014 at 23:35
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    Ok, look: however you split this, the name was inappropriate. And you really should know better, because this isn't the first time this sort of thing has come up. Removing you as a room owner, because it's Friday night here in the USofA and folks have better things to do than babysit a chat room - please try to keep things reasonably calm until after beer time.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 0:03
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    Yet more excuses. If you want your own place to go and be childish then start your own chat system or use someone else's. Otherwise, finally come to terms with the fact that the Lounge is part of Stack Overflow and should abide by the principles that Stack Exchange upholds. Commented May 17, 2014 at 0:15
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    @DeadMG: You seem to believe that I think it needs defending. It does not. It absolutely does. This is not your website. You, I and everybody else here are guests. Commented May 17, 2014 at 0:23
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    If you actually want to talk about this, I'm easy to find, @Griwes. If your only goal is to express your unrefined outrage and disbelief that someone would dare to intervene in a community unable to moderate itself, then it has been noted. Removing unconstructive commentary.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 16:48
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    That the root problem. Developers and other workers thinking that they have a right to beer time instead of working 24/7. Joel should know to set expectations higher then that.
    – DVK
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 23:30

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