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In the original version of my question, I specifically asked

In the early days of StackOverflow, all sorts of programming and computer questions were all lumped together in one subsite. As things stand now, "purists" will complain this question isn't about programming and therefore doesn't belong on stackoverflow.com. If not, where should I be asking this question?

This was edited out by a user who judged it to be "snark/meta-commentary" when they completely ignored the question "where should I be asking this question?" Consequently, my question was closed as "Not suitable for this site" because my question about where I should post it was no longer visible! Now, because my original question has been closed in combination with not being able to ask where to post it, I cannot expect to get any answers or suggestions, and after all the years I've been participating in it, Stack Overflow has become effectively useless to me. I am most disappointed.

Now I'm left with two additional questions:

  1. How am I supposed to ask for guidance about where to post a question if I already know it "may" not be "suitable" for where I'm asking it?
  2. Where should I have posted my original question, so I could expect it to be answered, rather than simply being judged "not suitable for this site" and discarded?
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    Regarding your first question: You may ask in meta, if you want. Asking "where do I ask a question like this" is not a valid, on-topic question for SO. Adding that to an already existing question is simply meta-commentary, which should be removed if present.
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 6:32
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    Social & meta commentary does not belong in posts. A question about where to post does not belong on SO. A question about where to post doesn't even belong on meta.SO, it belongs on Meta Stack Exchange. meta.SO is OK for asking about what you can post on SO. PS Please research your (1) question & what is a good on-topic post on a site before considering posting on that site. Including this one.
    – philipxy
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 6:33
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    A big problem with your question (in the main site) is having so much unnecessary and unrelated details and backstory (and incorrect tags). In the end, it's just a question about grep (which is probably off-topic as well, but frankly, I'm sure plenty/some would disagree).
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 7:17
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    “Now, because my original question has been closed, I cannot expect to get any answers or suggestions, and after all the years I've been participating in it, Stack Overflow has become effectively useless to me.” - Your question appears to be more suited for Super User rather than Stack Overflow. As for your explanation, trying to understand where your question should be submitted, as no business being done n your actual question. If you already know it’s not suitable for SO don’t submit the question to SO. Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 9:13
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    "Stack Overflow has become effectively useless to me" - No, it'll still turn up in the top 5 search results of programming related searches in Google or Bing. This is just the same old misconception where people think Stack Overflow is primarily about asking questions. It really isn't, it is about searching for existing answers. If Stack Overflow becomes useless to you because you can't post all your questions on it, you've been using it not properly informed.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 12:52
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    Aside: Quoting "purists" and italicizing programming in the deleted section sets a strange tone. Antagonizing the same volunteers you want help from isn't likely to be productive.
    – Chris
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 13:14
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    @yivi Aside from general principles, the grep tag guidance is clear: "Use this tag only if your question relates to programming using grep or grep-based APIs. Questions relating to using or troubleshooting grep command-line options itself are off-topic." Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 15:26
  • IMHO, "using ... grep command-line options" very often is exactly the same as "programming using grep or grep-based APIs" - how else is one supposed to write a shell script? Commented Oct 27, 2023 at 0:22

3 Answers 3

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Consequently, my question was closed as "Not suitable for this site" because my question about where I should post it was no longer visible!

I'm one of the people who voted to close your question, and I would still have voted to close if the "where should I ask this?" bit had been left intact.

The question is fundamentally about using grep and bash. I don't believe it is a programming question.

If I know other network sites that might be a better fit, I usually try to leave a comment. I'm not sure why I didn't do that here. I might have been on mobile, where crafting such messages is trickier.

In this case, you might have more luck on Super User or Unix & Linux. But please make sure to check their welcome pages; I spend most of my time on SO and don't have a great handle on what's on topic elsewhere.

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  • You probably know this, but just in case: [su] and [unix.se] are expanded to nice links automatically.
    – miken32
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 18:44
  • @miken32, yep. I use that extensively. My phone likes to add spaces where I don't want them, though, and sometimes I want to include links that don't have short codes... anyway, I'm not even sure that's why I didn't leave a comment. Just guessing at what might have happened.
    – Chris
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 18:53
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    Even if Unix.SE exists for questions focused on Linux tools, I don't really understand the distinction that using grep or bash (which is Turing complete) is somehow "not programming". Why is python -c 'import glob; for f in glob.glob("*.txt"): if any(f"{f} valid" in line for line in f.readlines()): print("success")' programming but for f in *.txt; grep -q "$f valid" "$f" && echo "success"; done suddenly "not programming"? Why has programming culture evolved so that a portion of the community considers writing code in Turing complete languages to not be programming?! Commented Oct 22, 2023 at 4:53
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    @MateenUlhaq, that's a straw man. The problem isn't bash, but the question being asked about it. Plenty of bash questions are on topic on SO.
    – Chris
    Commented Oct 22, 2023 at 7:39
  • @Chris Thank you for the suggestions, I will ask my question in one of those subsites where it looks more appropriate. BTW, at the time I first posted my question, I had only found it failing in git bash which I mentioned to establish the working environment. I've since found the same failure in PiOS, which is the only other Linux environment I have readily available. Commented Oct 26, 2023 at 20:52
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There are a few points worth stressing in an answer of its own, because there are just too many ideas misaligned with how Stack Overflow operates.

This was edited out by a user who judged it to be "snark/meta-commentary"

And that quote from your question was correctly edited out. Meta-commentary like that does not belong in posts, period.

when they completely ignored the question "where should I be asking this question?"

Nor do they have to answer that question for you. While they could clarify the situation in a comment, they are not expected to stop and provide explanations to every intervened question. The site is too big for that and not everyone takes feedback amicably anyway.

The place where you would ask about the topicality of a question is right here on Meta Stack Overflow, or on the mother Meta Stack Exchange site. Not in comments, and not with an edit to the post.

Consequently, my question was closed as "Not suitable for this site" because my question about where I should post it was no longer visible

That is a false causality. The question was closed due to the original question being off-topic. As explained in this answer, it is about general usage of grep and bash, and not considered a question specifically about programming. The meta-commentary with an extra question edited in would not have saved it from this fate even if it stayed there. Users are advised against answering off-topic questions.

Now, because my original question has been closed, I cannot expect to get any answers or suggestions,

Generally, one or two closed off-topic questions would not stop you from joining the right site in the Stack Exchange network and asking the questions there. So unless you have been question-banned, this reaction seems a bit overboard.

and after all the years I've been participating in it, Stack Overflow has become effectively useless to me.

The site is primarily useful to those who search for an existing answer, not for active participants. You arrived here in the first place very likely because the site had the answers you were looking for. This may well continue to be the case, so it will continue to be useful. Besides, you were still able to ask that follow-up meta-question here, with 3 extensive answers!

Ultimately though, if the site still does not hold the answer to your existing primary question, that would be the moment to follow the research steps, and post a question as the last step.

I am most disappointed.

That's too bad, but these wrong expectations are the real problem. Expect nothing and appreciate everything. Especially because all this information is available for free.

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    I was going to respond to the "I am most disappointed." line as well, but I don't think I could have been as tactful. Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 15:24
  • "too many ideas misaligned with how Stack Overflow operate" - I'm stealing... I mean I'm sticking that one in my toolbelt. That is the most neutral way I've seen yet of saying that.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 19, 2023 at 7:53
  • As I've said, when I started as part of the SO community, there was only [stackoverflow.com] - no Stack Exchange, no meta sites: Everything went into SO. That model was doomed to become too big to be useful, subsites bloomed, and "where should I ask this" questions were common. I have seen "meta" sites, not what they were for, too busy with relevant Q&A to notice what looked like a diversion. I put a lot of effort into composing a question I knew may not match the new charter of SO itself, so I also asked where to pose it. Instead of supporting suggestions, this old dinosaur got jumped ... Commented Oct 27, 2023 at 0:14
  • ... by a bunch of kids with baseball bats - or so it felt. Not answers to my question, I heard SCREAMS of "DON'T DO THAT HERE!" That unrelated vitrolic response made me feel SO is now useless, which in turn really did disappoint me. Calm hints like "ask where to post in a meta site" would be much more useful, not seem a personal attack on my skills and abilities. I don't expect answers, I appreciate relevant ones I receive. My intent is not to cause trouble but to be a productive member of a community, I was shocked by my request being totally misconstrued. Commented Oct 27, 2023 at 0:14
  • @FKEinternet The Stack Overflow of old would likely be more lenient to catering to individual concerns. But as you well realized, it has become a big city, with expected norms alongside it. The expectation that your question would just be smoothly relocated in the right site was misguided.
    – E_net4
    Commented Oct 27, 2023 at 8:13
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    @FKEinternet With that said, let's get into the second part: Where exactly did the community SCREAM at you? Where were the vitriolic responses? If they really were of that nature, they would be code of conduct violations, which should have been flagged. Otherwise, it does not really help your case to exaggerate the situation. The question was subjected to moderation, that's all. On the other hand, name calling often reaches the unprofessional threshold, so calling the curator community "a bunch of kids" is borderline inappropriate.
    – E_net4
    Commented Oct 27, 2023 at 8:15
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Disclaimer: I had no involvement in the actions taken on your question, but it's very obvious to me that these actions were unquestionably correct.

This was edited out by a user who judged it to be "snark/meta-commentary"

Because it was.

when they completely ignored the question

Yes, because it is inappropriate to put such a question on the main site.

You have been using Stack Overflow for more than 7 years, and a few other Stack Exchange network sites for as long or nearly as long. You also have a "Fanatic" gold badge for 100 consecutive daily visits, and have asked dozens of questions on Stack Overflow and answered more than a dozen questions.

You should therefore be expected to understand, by now, at least the basics of how the sites work: such as the fact that this is not a discussion forum; your question is therefore expected to contain only an on-topic question, and you may not expect to have a back-and-forth with other users via the actual question or answer posts. That's why there are separate meta sites (and comments, and chat).

On the other hand, you weren't, apparently, around in the days when questions like this would have been considered on topic (for example, because the other technical computer-user sites didn't exist yet). So it rings hollow for you to appeal to "the early days of StackOverflow" in making your appeal.

"where should I be asking this question?"

Right here is where you ask "where should I be asking this question?". Or else you can try the network-wide meta to find the right site.

For the actual question: it's hard to follow what you are trying to ask. It doesn't seem like the question has anything to do with git bash, or scp, at all. It seems like you are really asking a question about how to use the grep command.

That most likely belongs on Super User; you could try Unix and Linux since grep is fundamentally a Unix command and I don't think using Git Bash changes anything relevant.

However, based on how things played out, it comes across that you either simply had a typo, or didn't understand something about the specific flavour of regex syntax that grep uses. That would most likely get your question closed in the places where it's on topic - either as a typo, or a duplicate (maybe something like "how do I match digit symbols with grep?", or something to do with the difference between regex and glob syntax).

Consequently, my question was closed as "Not suitable for this site" because my question about where I should post it was no longer visible!

No. It was closed as not suitable for the site because it is not suitable for the site. Asking why it is not suitable for the site doesn't change the fact that it isn't suitable for the site.

In fact, it makes matters worse, in three separate ways:

  • It adds a second unrelated question, which is not how the site works and makes "Needs More Focus" a valid close reason.

  • It poses a meta question, which is off topic on every main site and should be asked on a corresponding meta site instead.

  • It suggests that you know that all of this is a problem, yet chose to post anyway. This sort of thing tends to make people unsympathetic towards you.

    Further, now you've come here to complain (and, originally, call people out by name) - which suggests that you also knew that Meta sites exist and that they're the appropriate place to ask meta questions. So at this point, it's really impossible for me to side with you in any way, shape or form.

Now, because my original question has been closed, I cannot expect to get any answers or suggestions

Yes, that's how the site works. You are not actually entitled to answers even on properly asked questions, but especially not on off-topic, unclear ones. Again, this is not a discussion forum; and people are therefore explicitly expected not to provide answers in the answer section simply because they know how to solve the problem you describe, but only because they can help to build a searchable Q&A reference library.

and after all the years I've been participating in it, Stack Overflow has become effectively useless to me.

Really?

Have you ever tried putting something like site:stackoverflow.com <words that describe the issue> into a search engine? For example, with the current issue I can turn up a few at least vaguely related things. If I tried it with a site where the question is (currently) on topic, and with a few more details, I might even be able to find a proper duplicate.

That's how Stack Exchange sites are intended to be useful, and why they (especially the more technical ones like Stack Overflow) have the policies that they do. Because when people don't ask questions properly, the resulting mess makes search results worse.

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    Oh geez, I didn't even see the named callouts until you pointed them out... I wonder if OP thought that would notify us? It's common enough to see @-mentions attempted in questions and answers.
    – Chris
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 15:33
  • @Chris when my gut reaction on a Meta post is already "oh, this isn't going to go well for OP", I have a habit of checking revision 1. Perhaps it's a form of masochism? Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 15:35
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    Please: Speaking of snark. This post is like very many of yours where you presume someone knows something & ought to & has some attitude & you certainly have attitude. Please just write boring non-personal informative answers as politely as you would addressing the tween neice of your boss. (That doesn't mean you can't state your expectations & disappointments but at least that's then clearly explicitly about you.) Avoiding typography would probably help you so you have to explicitly use your words instead to be derogatory.
    – philipxy
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 15:43
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    I'm using bold emphasis to highlight the summary of the content and italic emphasis to indicate natural verbal stress, as I normally do on Meta. I am not assuming knowledge; I am expecting it - for clearly stated reasons. I am also consciously highlighting inconsistent behaviour because it is further evidence of wrongdoing. Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 16:23
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    Mini-detail but about "and have asked dozens of questions on Stack Overflow and answered more than a dozen questions.", => it's the other way around actually: 14 Qt's + 72 Answers (on 'SO').
    – chivracq
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 17:33
  • +1 I need Jerry Orbach to show up and make a clever remark after reading that. There's been a (well cited and extensively researched) murder!
    – miken32
    Commented Oct 18, 2023 at 18:55
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    @miken32 It is a course correction, not a murder. We're not here to shame people, even if they come in guns blazing.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 19, 2023 at 11:39
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    @chivracq actually I suppose that is an important detail; I was mostly interested in question-asking experience after all. Lots of people answer a large number of low-quality questions without pausing to think about whether that aligns with the site's goals. Commented Oct 19, 2023 at 16:39
  • It would be nice if the question lifecycle would allow for people to answer those questions without getting in the way of the site's goals.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 19, 2023 at 16:48
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    @KevinB Maybe if we forced everyone through the staging grounds until they demonstrated a proper understanding of the site... Commented Oct 19, 2023 at 16:49
  • @Karl, yeah-yeah OK, but my point was that 14/12=1.1667 dozens Questions (>1, => plural is grammatically correct indeed), and 72 Answers (= 6 dozens!, => "more than a dozen" is mathematically correct also) are somewhat a misrepresentation of OP's activity on 'SO', and that you probably meant the opposite but mistakenly inverted the numbers... And I'm surprised you have not corrected that...
    – chivracq
    Commented Oct 19, 2023 at 22:36
  • @KarlKnechtel Thank you for the extensive and informative response, even with its abrasive presentation. I'm responding in the order I read answers. When it started in 2008, when I began using SO, there was no Stack Exchange Network, there was stackoverflow.com to find questions and answers about anything re. computers. I accept "purist" may be snarky, less inciting words may draw a better response. At the start, no "meta" sites existed. Focused on questions and answers, I never noticed or groked them or why. "Where should I ask" was common as subsites grew. Angry actions woke me ... Commented Oct 26, 2023 at 6:35
  • ... in a changed world. Enough. You didn't notice 9 variations of many more, or my [ regex101.com ] visit comment to get the regex right: your "dialect syntax or typo" opinion is clearly wrong. I named git bash as environment, scp strings as search target context: My question is a good bug report. Single command use at a prompt, even with many switches, is not programming. Crafting a single-line for loop or a multi-step pipeline passing data between, is programming IMHO. Not to argue, I'll ask as suggested. Answers aren't entitled, but impossible with questions closed or neutered. Commented Oct 26, 2023 at 17:05
  • @KarlKnechtel "highlighting inconsistent behaviour because it is further evidence of wrongdoing" - Really? - You make it sound like I intentionally went out of my way to destroy the integrity of the site. Commented Oct 26, 2023 at 20:10
  • @Chris Yes, you are correct, I thought the callouts would notify each person: No harmful intent was intended. Commented Oct 26, 2023 at 20:11

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