17

The tag description appears to describe mostly the legacy JPEG compression format, published by the Joint Photographic Experts Group in 1992. Does the JPEG tag cover only the JPEG format, or does it also cover other formats developed by the same group, such as JPEG 2000, JPEG XR, JPEG XT, JPEG XS, and JPEG XL?

Note that those are not different versions of the same format — they are different formats (except JPEG XT, it seems). For example, JPEG XL uses a completely different compression algorithm, supports both lossy and lossless compression, and is intended to replace all lossless and lossy formats completely. As I understand it, the authors intend to supersede only legacy JPEG, but also PNG and GIF. JPEG XL doesn't appear to have much in common with legacy JPEG except for the name.

One source of confusion may be that JPEG can either refer to the file format (legacy) JPEG, or to the Joint Photographic Experts Group, the committee that has developed legacy JPEG (.jpg) and several other file formats, such as JPEG 2000 (.jp2), JPEG XR (.jxr), JPEG XT, JPEG XS (.jxs), and JPEG XL (.jxl).

Should we:

  1. Have a single tag covering everything from legacy JPEG to JPEG XL and everything in-between? That would probably mean making other tags, such as and synonyms for . In this case, there would be no specific tags for any specific format.

  2. Have different tags for different formats?

    a. The existing would refer only to legacy JPEG.

    b. The existing would cover everything, but questions should additionally be tagged with the specific format. We would need a new tag, perhaps , for questions specifically about the classic JPEG.

    Note that, as of October 2022, legacy JPEG remains the most commonly used format by far. Alternative 2b might be confusing.

  3. Do something else?

The tag wiki or tag wikis should probably be updated either way.

11
  • To me (who knows nothing about graphics), [jpeg] would mean any file that is a jpeg/jpg file. If the description of [jpeg] is about a specific version then it shouldn't be called jpeg, but something else. I doubt, however, that renaming the tag would be appropriate, considering that it's very unlikely that all 4,838 questions are about the version you describe. Instead, the exerpt and wiki should be updated to reflect all the jpeg types, and then it can explain in the wiki which version tags are available and when they should be used. But, again, I know nothing about jpegs...
    – Thom A
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:07
  • 7
    @Larnu None of the other file formats are image/jpeg or have .jpg extensions. Rather they have .jp2, .jxt, .jxl, etc. A JPEG XL file is not a JPEG file. They are not different versions of the same format — they are different formats with confusingly similar names.
    – gerrit
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:08
  • @Larnu I guess one source is confusion is that JPEG can either refer to the file format (legacy) JPG, or to the Joint Photographic Experts Group, the organisation that has standardised JPG and several other file formats.
    – gerrit
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:13
  • So, if [jpeg] was meant to be able all those file types that have "JPEG" in name but not in extension, what tag should be used to specifically be about .jpeg/.jpg files?
    – Thom A
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:14
  • @Larnu Good question. I don't know. If other formats were more established I might propose classic-jpeg, but probably most people are not aware the other formats even exist, so it would probably just cause more confusion.
    – gerrit
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:18
  • @Larnu To clarify: I meant that it would cover classic JPEG as well as the other ones, so the existing tag could just remain, it would just need to be broadened. In this case, there would be no tag specifically to any of the particular formats.
    – gerrit
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:22
  • So (again as someone with no knowledge) it would seem that [jpeg] should be specifically for jpeg/jpg files, and the tag exerpt should explicitly state to not use it for these other file types (which are mentioned in it's wiki); those file types should be tagged with the appropriate tag instead. Then if someone does tag incorrectly, it'll be up to curators to fix (much like those of us who follow RDBMS tags, and frequently have to remove multiple conflicting tags).
    – Thom A
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:22
  • "In this case, there would be no tag specifically to any of the particular formats." The problem with this is that is means that someone who knows about jpeg files, but not the others (which I assume there are such people) would not have a way of identifying questions they are an SME on; with this method, a new tag would need to be created in addition and would mean that for any existing questions, it wouldn't be known what "type" of JPEG file they are asking about.
    – Thom A
    Commented Oct 31, 2022 at 14:27
  • As a pet peeve, there is not, and never has been, an image format called "JPG". 30 years ago, it was necessary to come up with a three-letter file extension for compatibility with MS-DOS, leading to ".jpg" and occasionally ".jpe" instead of the more natural ".jpeg", but that requirement has long since ceased to be relevant to anyone.
    – IMSoP
    Commented Nov 3, 2022 at 9:56
  • @IMSoP Hm. Somehow I would not be surprised if things would stop working if I were to start throwing file.jpeg into our production systems, rather than file.jpg.
    – gerrit
    Commented Nov 4, 2022 at 10:45
  • NB, Chrome is removing support for the JPEG-XL format, which will likely effectively kill it as a format, given Firefox does not plan to add support for it. bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1178058#c84
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 20:30

2 Answers 2

19

The tag is just for image/jpeg (.jpeg or .jpg files), not the other MIME types or file formats. In fact, those types have their own tags already.

Perhaps some of the confusion is due to the low quality of the tag wiki excerpt and tag wiki, since they were wholly copied from the Wikipedia page. Since that's not allowed, I've fixed that in both the excerpt and the full wiki.

I'm not an expert in the subject, though, so I welcome further improvements from anyone who is more knowledgeable.

1
  • 2
    As well as matching colloquial usage (I've never even heard of most of these other formats, and calling image/jpeg "legacy" is a massive stretch given how common it still is), I think this matches general policy: tag things not organisations. If "jpeg" referred to "all formats created by the Joint Photographic Experts Group", that implies we would have a tag for "AOMedia" rather than for "AV1" and "AVIF".
    – IMSoP
    Commented Nov 3, 2022 at 9:52
12

Have a generic tag covering everything from legacy JPEG to JPEG XL. In case, a specific tag is needed, that tag may be added in addition: . That's how combination tags work. There's also no need for , as that is the most popular. Just refers to legacy jpeg, unless another specific tag is added.

I disagree that should only refer to image/jpeg. Even if meta disagrees with me, it is impossible to make new users and members outside meta, read the tag excerpt and use only for classic jpeg or for images with image/jpeg, even if the tag excerpt says so. Limiting the tag arbitrarily is not a practical solution.

14
  • 1
    We certainly don't need more JPEG tags (e.g. classic-jpeg). Also, if jpeg jpeg-xr are meant to be used in tandem, perhaps the JPEG tag usage guidance should be worded more inclusively to cover all JPEG codecs. Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 0:55
  • 1
    People mis-using tags means some work re-tagging, but as long as the volume of mis-tagged questions isn't too high, it's manageable. (And probably not too frustrating for people doing the re-tagging, as the confusion is understandable. Unlike people who still post questions about the MIPS simulator MARS, tagged with [sql-server-mars], obviously with zero attention paid to how their tags expanded. But that tag rename did help reduce the rate of retagging needed.) Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 2:53
  • We could consider renaming [jpeg] to [jpeg-classic], but maybe better to leave the door open for it to be not wrong on [jpeg-xl] questions. I'm kind of against this proposal as plan A / official policy, but I don't think it's a disaster if some JPEG-XL questions are left with a [jpeg] tag. IMO, questions about formats other than image/jpeg should definitely be tagged with their own tag, though, whether or not they also get [jpeg]. I think that's important for the tag system to be useful in narrowing things down for people looking for questions to answer, or searching in general. Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 2:56
  • @MateenUlhaq The change to restrict the tag to image/jpeg was done unilaterally by TylerH yesterday and the answer was posted ex post facto. I believe a change is acceptable.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 5:48
  • @PeterCordes Most questions are about image modifications in another language(eg: python). I'm sure most python devs wouldn't bother, if [jpeg-xr][jpeg2000] was tagged only with [jpeg]. No one is going to do retagging to fit the tag excerpt. Note that [jpeg-xr] has only 16 questions, and [jpeg2000] around 200 questions. [jpeg] on the other hand has around 5k questions.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 6:01
  • If there's anything specific to [jpeg-xr] in a question beyond the choice of filename, I hope someone would add that tag. For searchability in general, "jpeg-xr" in quotes should work in most search-engines, but for question feeds for people looking for questions to answer, that's still based on tags. Some people might be interested in some of the new formats but not want to follow the [jpeg] tag. Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 6:40
  • 1
    @PeterCordes Some people might be interested in some of the new formats but not want to follow the [jpeg] tag. The volume doesn't support that theory. [jpeg-xr] has 16 questions and just 4 watchers. [jpeg-xl] has 0 watchers and 3 questions.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 7:07
  • @PeterCordes how many people do you think would use [jpeg-classic] and not just re-create [jpeg] when they are talking about .jpeg/.jpg files? Since no one refers to it as jpeg-classic, I think it would be the wrong move to try and create that name for it here and expect people to follow it.
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 13:12
  • 1
    Regarding my tag wiki edit, it mostly removed plagiarized content. I did add usage guidance (since there wasn't any), and I chose to make the usage guidance narrowed to jpeg since that's what the tag is named and there are other tags already for the other mime types... we may ultimately decide to do away with those but while they're here it makes no sense to have the tag wiki for one try to cover all.
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 13:18
  • To that point, @MateenUlhaq, it's best to wait to make competing changes to the wiki until a consensus has been reached. Trying to change it in the middle of a Meta discussion, especially in a way that more aligns with the currently-less-popular outcome, is not a particularly good idea.
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 13:20
  • @TylerH Yes, I can see you see removed plagiarized content. But you also arbitrarily limited the tag to a mimetype image/jpeg or the extension .jpg unilaterally before meta discussion. While your answer still is popular, it's arbitrary. We don't have tags like jxl for [jpeg-xl]/image/jxl or jxr(hdp or wdp) for jpeg-xr/image/jxr. All [jpeg] tags were based on the file format common name and not on the mime type or extension. We don't need to put conflicting words. I suggest just removing the last ...using the image/jpeg MIME type in the tag excerpt.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 13:30
  • 3
    @TheMaster But JPEG-2000 and JPEG-XL (the other tags listed) do use different mime types and have different file names/extensions. JPEG-2000 is image/jp2 and .jpg, respectively. JPEG-XL is image/jxl and .jxl respectively. It sounds like you are arguing that we should get rid of those extra tags, which is a valid argument, but not something that should be done before Meta decides on it. The current reality is that we have different tags for the different mime types and formats, and the tag wiki needs to reflect that reality.
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 13:49
  • 1
    @TylerH: I was picturing that [jpeg] could be a tag synonym for [jpeg-classic] or something like that. So if someone tries to tag their question [jpeg], it actually shows as [jpeg-classic] as soon as they press enter. That's one hypothetical way we could go; it's technologically possible on Stack Overflow, but I think it's better to leave [jpeg] open to some sloppyness because it's not a big problem, but have the intended use be just for classic JPEG. Partly the benefit is less distraction worrying about tags for people using it. Commented Nov 2, 2022 at 19:04
  • 3
    Unless and until "Classic JPEG", or "Legacy JPEG",, or some other name, becomes a commonly used term for this image format (which has been known as "JPEG" for the last 30 years), I don't think adding any new tag or synonym makes sense. If JPEG XL (which was only published this year) actually succeeds in its aims (unlike JPEG 2000, or many other image formats in between) it's far from clear that people will start abbreviating it as "JPEG", rather than using a new term such as "JXL".
    – IMSoP
    Commented Nov 3, 2022 at 11:02

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .