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On a previous meta question of mine, a user left this comment:

"we don't have many places to go to ask questions and get help." - I have a B.S. in Computer Science. You can always contact the Professor and TA(s) for assistance. When I earned my degree, the use of SO on programming assignments would have been consider to be cheating. If you ask question(s) then have a habit of deleting them, then it is you that is toxic, especially if you receive an answer to that question.

How would it be plagiarism when I ask questions and try and be receptive to what I am being told and working around suggestions? I don't expect to be given code segments but as a new-ish programmer to C++ I don't exactly know all the quick tricks and libraries that are offered. Saying that using this site is plagiarism is almost ironic knowing that during career fairs many corporate programing teams said they frequented SO asking questions and scoured posts for answers to complete projects.

Is it the simple act of copying someone else's work that is plagiarism or entirely just using the site to learn more about the coding language I'm working with? If so that would be like barring me off from using a reference guide or book to look for ways to the solution.

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    I mean... strictly speaking that is the definition, if you credit the work as your own. "the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own" but at a certain point that just becomes silly.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:43
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    I said it was cheating I didn’t say it was plagiarism, there is a difference, you have taken my words out of their original context. My programming professors would consider asking how to one of my programming assignments to be cheating. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:44
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    Plagiarism is cheating. I'm sorry but they are hand-in-hand. Though I have edited the title to say cheating rather. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:45
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    I mean, you can certainly have that opinion, but at what point is a line of code someone else's, vs knowledge you've obtained? writing a for loop isn't plagiarism, and yet that's all over this site.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:47
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    @CMOS_BATTERY - You can cheat and NOT plagiarize someone. Using unapproved assistance to complete an assignment is cheating. Plagiarizing is copying text and not properly citing and quoting that source Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:47
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    What your professor thinks is plagiarism isn't that relevant to this site.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:50
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    As you note, different schools, professors, etc. have different policies on what constitutes "unapproved assistance." There is also a difference between reading reference material and obtaining specific assistance with your code. Security Hound noted that their school would not have allowed that. Yours may. A recent flag-handling rabbit hole (don't ask) confirmed that, as one example, asking for debugging assistance is allowed by Harvard's CS50 class. That said, I'm sure there are assignments, classes, etc. in which one is required to work alone.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:51
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    @KevinB my point, How can a site that is based of an open-source coding language ever be interpreted as cheating or plagiarizing of another works? Unless I go through and copy everything down to their comments, I'd say taking snippets is just about the same as taking snippets out of the handbook and modifying them to fit a users program. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:55
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    Honestly, we would care less if anyone want to copy/plagiarize any code from here. While there may be a problem for them, that's not really our problem.
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:56
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    I encourage my students to use StackOverflow, teaching how to use it is part of the syllabus. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:57
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    @CMOS_BATTERY we, have our own rules around plagiarism. ;) As a community with rules and guidelines we're allowed to have our own rules.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 3:57
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    "I'd say taking snippets is just about the same as taking snippets out of the handbook and modifying them to fit a users program" Quoting from an actual academic honesty policy, the following is "Not reasonable": "Submitting (after possibly modifying) the work of another individual beyond the few lines allowed herein." - So it depends on your definition of "snippet", if that were the policy binding you.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 4:01
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    Screenshot of the deleted question for <10k users.
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 6:38
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    The only thing the comment you quoted says is that 25 years ago, when the commenter earned their degree, at the university they earned their degree at, using SO would have been considered cheating. That's all the comment says. It doesn't say anything about other universities, it doesn't say anything about today, and it doesn't say anything about plagiarism. The most important part of that comment is the second sentence which tells you how you can get immediate, targeted, high-quality assistance without having to rely on SO. If you live in a country which has student fees, you are quite … Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 14:08
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    … literally paying people to help you study. Even if your country does not have student fees, you are still indirectly paying through your taxes. By not using those resources, you are essentially throwing away money. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 14:09

5 Answers 5

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As the individual who made the comment:

How would it be plagiarism when I ask questions and try and be receptive to what I am being told and working around suggestions?

It’s not plagiarism. It’s cheating. As a student you should only be using resources approved by a professor. Having someone on Stack Overflow complete a programming assignment is cheating. Hiring someone to complete that same assignment is cheating. My comment was an opinion, from a professional programmer, with 25 years of experience who received multiple relevant college degrees (two B.S and one M.S).

I don't expect to be given code segments but as a new-ish programmer to C++ I don't exactly know all the quick tricks and libraries that are offered.

Which is the reason you go to the professor or teachers assistant for assistance with the assignment. As someone who received multiple college degrees in Stack Overflow related fields, the professor always provided all necessary information, before expecting you to use that knowledge.

Saying that using this site is plagiarism is almost ironic knowing that during career fairs many corporate programming teams said they frequented SO asking questions ans scouring posts for answers to complete projects.

I never said it was plagiarism. You indicated you were a student. You indicated your knowledge gap is pretty big. I only suggested you have approved resources that you can use to complete assignments. Outside of an academic environment nobody cares how you complete your work, except perhaps if you’re a programmer assigned to create the Android VM, and simply copied and pasted Java VM source code.

Is it the simple act of copying someone else's work that is plagiarism or entirely just using the site to learn more about the coding language I'm working with?

If you don’t indicate your source, absolutely it’s plagiarism.

But of course "unproved" can vary from professor to professor. Using the site to build my knowledge is like saying you cant read the manual. Almost everything everyone says here in terms of code was all created in an open-source platform.

I simply replied with a comment suggesting you have resources you can use as a response to a complaint about the community's reception to your questions. I can’t quote what you said because your previous question was deleted.

If so that would be like barring me off from using a reference guide or book to look for ways to the solution.

There probably isn’t a professor anywhere that wouldn’t allow you to use official documentation to complete an assignment. Since the use of that documentation by itself, typically cannot complete your assignment, it takes knowledge from their lectures to complete it.

Of course my entire comment, is based on the fact, asking a question that is obviously an academic programming assignment isn’t helpful to the community in my opinion.

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    "using the site to learn more about " is not "cheating". You paint all activity with one brush.
    – philipxy
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 7:05
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    The use of SO isn't cheating unless you're explicitly told not to use external sources at all. If you can use documentation, you can use SO. That is, assuming you actually ask a good question, and don't just expect people to do it all.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 9:04
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    I describe the action, submission of a class assignment, as a question to be academic dishonesty. This entire question is based on a user, believing cheating and plagiarism is one and the same, when it in reality it’s not. The question I made the comment in response to, has been deleted, it was a solution to the author’s desire to get an immediate answer to their questions. Author has been questioned banned if I am not mistaken. The author asks questions, gets an answer, then deletes the question. I consider that behavior to be bad for the community. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 10:40
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Many people believe you should learn programming without using Stack Overflow, which is of course ridiculous. You can and should use Stack Overflow. What you should not do is blindly copy-paste code you found on this site. If the problem you are facing hasn't been asked yet, feel free to post a new question, even if it will help you in your homework, project, job, etc. We don't care what you do with the knowledge you learned here as long as you don't use Stack Overflow as a mechanical turk. Nobody will do all the work for you here.

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    Nobody will do all the work for you here. Are you sure? ;) I've seen rep-whoring to level of completing entire projects. Rep is addictive.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 8:05
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    I really wouldn't be shocked but at the same time I kinda am. Completing the entire project and all you gain is rep is kinda crazy, this isn't Chegg where people who answer questions must get some kind of cash incentive, (hopefully) @TheMaster. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 16:58
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    @CMOS_BATTERY It's kind of a reason why expert users are frustrated with new users. Though some new users come to learn, most come to get free code service. After a while, it's tiring to do someone else's job for free. Experts come here to find interesting questions. But they have to go through a lot of garbage to find pearls here and there. See How much research effort is expected of stackoverflow users?. StackOverflow the company is partly to blame for letting this become a free code service, instead of a high quality repository of Q and A.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 17:25
  • @TheMaster I can imagine its hard to balance out the "I want a free, fully written solution" to the "I just need help with this snippet or compile error". I do imagine some of the blame can be due to just general human behavior of the mods and how they condone certain actions or choose to apply certain rules from one to the next. Its almost like the internet police, if you are buddies you can bet you probably wont get as severe of a punishment as opposed to some random person out there who's new or just not as well known. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 17:32
  • @CMOS_BATTERY I would be lying, if I said I believe the meta is completely unbiased or a perfect execution of justice. But, right is right and wrong is wrong. Just a while back, a answer was deleted by moderator. Another user thought it was wrong and disputed it in the meta. I made the claim that the deletion was indeed wrong(that the moderator's actions were not justified). Other users still agreed with me, even though I was not a meta regular or buddy-buddy with the mods and my post was highly upvoted. So, it's not like mods..[1/2]
    – TheMaster
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 18:02
  • @CMOS_BATTERY ..control everything. But your actions were clearly to be condemned. You can't start by calling volunteers, who spend valuable time here, a**/d*** or other expletives and expect other users to show the same mercy for your questions, (which were clearly violating rules), that they would've shown other questions.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 18:02
  • @TheMaster I've seen mods show mercy for plagiarism during elections of others, so really two questions getting a down vote hit is a bit ironic. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 18:26
  • @CMOS_BATTERY If you mean Shree, they were disqualified.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 18:44
  • Being downvoted isn't an indication mercy wasn't shown
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 18:46
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    @CMOS_BATTERY: "I just need help with this snippet or compile error..." but that is another issue that is commonly seen. This isn't in fact a "help site" per se, and for many new users, this can lead to frustration due to their not fully understanding this key concept. It is a question and answer site where both questions and answer quality are curated by site users with the goal of creating a collection of high-quality questions and their answers. Help is often obtained, but as a useful by-product, not as a primary goal. Commented Oct 26, 2022 at 23:40
  • @CMOS_BATTERY "this isn't Chegg where people who answer questions must get some kind of cash incentive" on the other hand... Don't be that account: buying and selling reputation and bounties
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Oct 27, 2022 at 7:49
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    @CMOS_BATTERY - "I've seen mods show mercy for plagiarism during elections of others" - If mercy was shown for plagiarism, then it was wrong, in my opinion. Plagiarism is one of the worst things you can do, it's a form of academic dishonesty, and honestly will get you fired in the world of corporations and big business. If you plagiarize code from the Oracle/Sun Java VM, as a programmer who is creating the Dalvik VM, and you can end up costing Google millions of dollars after copying 4 lines of code. It's a big deal Commented Oct 27, 2022 at 15:12
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How would it be plagiarism when I ask questions and try and be receptive to what I am being told and working around suggestions? I don't expect to be given code segments

just using the site to learn more about the coding language I'm working with

That sounds reasonable. But let's see whether it's true that "it [would not] be plagiarism" and "I ask questions [...]" and "I don't expect to be given code segments" and you are "just using the site to learn more about the coding language I'm working with" for the questions we have access to. And let's put your two meta questions and their associated main site questions in context.

Consider your 6 non-deleted questions and your question just deleted by a moderator (with another question deleted under Peer Pressure last month) and, apparently, a question deleted by the system last week.

It's good that most of these have example code that can be cut and pasted and run. But these are all dumps of non-working undebugged code that lack the minimal code of a Minimal Reproducible Example, and contain no question--just statements about problem behaviour. (And you haven't always responded to requests like giving a MRE's minimal code and clear specification or getting rid of an image of text.) So the apparent implicit requests are all for others to debug your code for you and for others to write working code for you. And since these are admittedly homework assignments it certainly seems like a general comment about cheating (including plagiarism) is relevant to what you have actually posted.

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Ultimately, it's an opinion of a single user. There isn't any community consensus on whether it's cheating or not. And we have no way of knowing your school rules. And honestly, we don't care if it's cheating, because we can't do anything about it. We do care, if it's plagiarism (portraying someone else's work as your own, without giving them credit), but we can't do anything about it either, if it's outside Stack Overflow.

All we care is whether the question is useful to the community and helpful to future readers. A question is a contribution just like an answer is. You shouldn't use it to be self-serving, but serve and help others, even if you're asking beginner questions.

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  • I think we can all agree that it is at the very minimum cheating yourself. Out of being properly educated. But Stack Overflow does not exist to protect people from themselves, so that remains a non-argument.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 27, 2022 at 9:15
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It seems simple to me: the instructor sets the rules for the assignment, and if the student breaks the rules, it's cheating. Plagiarism is one manifestation of cheating, but not the only one.

As with the law, ignorance isn't an excuse. If there's any doubt about whether something is permitted or not in your specific context (assignment, course and instructor), it's your obligation to ask your instructor for clarification. For example, if the assignment says "you may use online documentation", then you can ask whether reading SO counts as documentation.

Assuming reading SO is permitted, Let's say you searched SO and didn't find an answer. Can you then ask a question and "read" the answer? Again, it's up to your instructor.

Even if you're allowed to ask a homework question, how you ask it may impact whether it's cheating or not. Once again, your instructor has the final word. See How do I ask and answer homework questions? for our guidelines.

If you post your homework verbatim (even with an attempt) and someone provides a complete solution or a non-trivial component of that, then it's probably cheating by almost anyone's definition (but, yes, ultimately up to your instructor).

On the other hand, if the question (or search term) is a specific, commonplace problem, then it may be in-bounds, and is more likely to be within the spirit of the assignment. An example might be asking for help with mutex initialization as a sub-part of a multithreading assignment in a systems class. As always, though, even this may be out of bounds per your assignment guidelines.

Your example of corporate programming teams at career fairs is irrelevant. This was taken from a different context where presumably SO was allowed. If it wasn't allowed, then those programmers were cheating, and you're using a "but everyone does it" argument which isn't a real argument. I suggest avoiding the temptation of trying to ethically justify cheating in any form. The only opinion that matters is your instructor's.

Cheating achieves nothing positive: you harm yourself by robbing yourself of the opportunity to learn the skills you're in school to learn, you harm your classmates by throwing the curve and potentially creating an unfairly high standard by which their assignments may be judged, you harm the professor and staff at the institution that have to get involved with a huge amount of work to detect and prevent cheating (time that they could be spending actually teaching).

I see many students taking an attitude of "I need to cheat just this one time because of special circumstances" [sickness, financial pressure, expectations, perfectionism, perceived issues with the instructor, etc]. Don't even begin, and if you have begun, end immediately. Creating knowledge gaps rather than confronting them will just kick the can down the road, making it worse for yourself when you do finally face the music.

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