65

New users (and even sometimes not so new) forget or don't know about the @userName ping mechanism. Even when they know about it (as pointed by @abarnet), they often end up with different misconceptions about how it works and how it should be used.

It obviously leads to comments read by no one or at least to comments that are not read by (theoretically) targeted person.

Well, if one is interested in a possible reply from somebody, they can wait for it or periodically check the comments, but it is at least ineffective and time-consuming.

The reason behind this problem is the fact that not everyone is aware of the need to use @userName ping in comments.


So, the proposal:

To increase awareness about the comment notifications show small tips for users when they write first N comments on posts.

Subproposal (or alternative proposal) by @Sayse:

Change default tip in the comment textbox to contain more useful tip or even the link to the "How do comment replies work"


For example:

When a user comments on their first (2nd or 3rd) question (or other post), they will see some "unobtrusive popup" like:

If you want to notify a specific user about your comment use @userName notation in the text. More information at How do comment replies work.

With some "I acknowledge" or "I know" flag (button) that will allow to dismiss it and stop from bothering the OP anymore.


Objections - points and counterpoints:

1. Point: Questions in need of discussion-like commenting are usually bad questions.

Counterpoint: I agree that a lot of questions in need of commenting are of shoddy quality, but some of them can be easily improved (thus reducing VTC review queue and quantity of questions without answers), and also there are a lot of legitimate situations where feedback or clarifications are required.

2. Point: Most of users due to experience, observation and inquisitiveness will learn about it on their own at some point in time.

Counterpoint: Most of questions come from new users, who obviously do not have experience, whose observations are limited, and whose inquisitiveness is directed on their current problem and (I hope) on an attempt to formulate some sort of an on-topic question. Helping them to understand even small part of [SO] mechanics without need to constantly educate them manually is a boon for sure.

3. Point The proposal will have only meager effect on overall site quality.

Counterpoint: Yes, but even small automatic improvement is a worthy addition. Plus it is not enormously complex and difficult to implement.

4. Point The more of them know about it, the more they will bother those they can.

Counterpoint: Yes, but they can do it now. Most of new users just do not know about it - currently it is just like security through obscurity, and those who know about it rarely use two or more comments in such a way being barely a nuisance. For those who can become a real problem there already exists comment flagging system.

5. Point Users need to have 50 rep to comment(as pointed by @Sayse).

Counterpoint: Yes, but as far as I know users can comment on their own posts regardless of rep. And there are a lot of > 50 rep users, that it will still affect a lot of people.

6. Point The proposal may be more suitable on https://meta.stackexchange.com/.

Counterpoint: Probably, but I'd try to discuss it here at first.

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  • 7
    I think it many users do discover the @, and get the basic gist, but don't actually understand how it works—so they write things like @Gene thinking "everyone will figure out that refers to Eugene Podskal", not realizing that the pingback code will not figure out any such thing. (I honestly don't know how someone manages to type @abarnett while missing all of the attempts to get them to autocomplete @abarnert, but they do, and then I see their comment months later…) Would you proposal help with that? If so, that's another point in its favor.
    – abarnert
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 20:27
  • 10
    We should also try to educate them about name completion after @. Barman is probably getting tired of all the notifications they get that are intended for me (there's no Barmer, so those misnotifications go into the ether).
    – Barmar
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 20:56
  • 2
    There are times when @user is not working. Sometimes, there is no autocomplete when I want to reply to user's comment. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 21:56
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    @Claudiu Autocomplete isn't enabled if it's not necessary. For example, autocomplete won't work if I try to use it for the author of this post, since authors are automatically notified of all comments on their posts. Read How do comment replies work for details. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 22:14
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    @abarnert I have added your consideration into the text. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 7:01
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    For the most part, I agree with your suggestion, (even it might be helpful to just change the default text to something different for users with less than 100 reputation). But then remember that users need 50 rep to comment so they will have seen this mechanism around for a while. My other quibble would be I don't want to get spammed by new users asking me to explain what an NRE is
    – Sayse
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 7:16
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    I personally really understood it and read How-do-comments-work somewhere at 1000 rep, and I still had few misconception after. And users can comment on their own posts regardless of rep. Getting spammed is always possible, but most of the "Give(describe)-the-codez" are usually getting tired after 2(maximum 3) messages, that are easy to ignore (and I have already considered it in Point 4), whereas for real botherers flagging may be appropriate. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 7:24
  • @Barmar - Are you sure your not getting tired of getting notifications for Barman? :) - Eugene, I don't think popup notifications are all that web friendly (especially since they can be turned off), hence the suggestion to change the default text in the comment textbox. Unless I misunderstood and you were suggesting toasts
    – Sayse
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 7:56
  • @Sayse Well, popups can obviously be considered as one of the most bothering UI element ever created, but some sort of tip(whether side popup or something else) that gives context advice for not-so-experienced users won't be as bad as you imagine, because I do not suggest to show it every time and for everybody. Default comment tip in textbox could be considered as constant complementary addition for aggressive tips, so I obviously support your suggestion. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 8:35
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    Something else that would be really helpful would be if while the autocomplete popup is showing you could hit tab or enter and it would autofill the first username in the list. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 15:16
  • @Claudiu: "There are times when @user is not working." Yes, that's because of this silliness. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 15:39
  • @Sayse I'll tell you when I get one. I just did a search, and there are actually 4 Barman accounts -- how is that possible? 2 of them have never asked or answered any questions.
    – Barmar
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 16:05
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    Personally I'd just notify everyone that has previously commented on the post. Prune the list to exclude people who haven't commented recently and/or are far up the comment list. Works well with Google+ comments which aren't forum-style either.
    – Ross Ridge
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 17:55
  • 2
    @RetoKoradi While I agree with you that is not a rocket science to comprehend, but most new users are just plain unaware of it, and either educating them(manually or through link) or polling the post can easily become tedious. Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 3:32
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    I'd rather eliminate the autocomplete mechanism altogether. That way, I would only see comments from people who are smart enough to read the instructions and/or type in my user name correctly.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 9:54

2 Answers 2

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I would do something easier. As we're used in many forums a small Reply link may be placed near each comment. Like this:

UI example for "Reply" link/button

It won't change anything in how comments work (it's pretty well as it is), what this macro will do is to simulate a click on "add a comment" (with relative focus) and precompile input with proper text, final result will be:

Example of precompiled textbox

A good tooltip (as in your second proposal) may also help (I'd like to have a popover above help link with quick instructions). I don't think this should be limited to "low rep" or "newbie" users, it may be a useful shortcut for everyone (I think it won't add noise to interface but it may be visible on :hover for comments when rep > 50).

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  • 1
    I just mocked up something very similar but you beat me to posting. The other option I was going to suggest for on comment threads where multiple people respond is to have a "reply to user" link next to "add a comment", that when clicked shows the auto complete style prompt of all users in the thread, and it will allow you to select one and reduce the chance of mistyping.
    – Tanner
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 10:46
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    @Tanner I picked simplest one (assuming developers working on SO has too many things to do). That may be an option too but it may be useful for new users and annoying for "experienced" ones (I'd use Reply link but I may be annoyed to search a name inside a list with few user00000). Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 10:49
  • Nice idea, haven't thought from that point view. Of course some may argue that it is the forumification of SO, and not every new user will use it, thinking that questions will be constantly polled by everyone interested, while everyone else is interested in more event-driven way of communication, but with some context reminder it is a worthy try. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 11:01
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    "Reply" feel like you are about to start a conversation, which doesn't seem to be that good in comments. Maybe another term would be better ? Something that would not hint to new users that they're in a chat. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 11:19
  • @EugenePodskal yes probably the (in)famous assertion "comments are 2nd class citizens" should be clearer to new users (also because of what Clément said). Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 11:19
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    @ClémentMalet you're right, I just can't imagine another word/sentence. Answer? Comment this? Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 11:21
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    What about Notify? When I leave a comment I am trying to notify the other user of a need to read what I have written. It doesn't give the same vibe as a Reply does, but it gets the basic idea across about what the @ is doing. It is also a pretty common word, so it should work for non-native English speakers.
    – kurtzbot
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 16:51
  • 1
    @kurtzbot for me (non native speaker) Notify won't make me think about a message to that user but 1) I'm not native speaker and 2) a tooltip will clarify its usage so why not? Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 21:43
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    @AdrianoRepetti: Nah, you're right; if I saw a link that said "notify" then I would expect the user to be pinged immediately, with no opportunity to write a message, if I hit it. Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 17:45
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit is it a question for "English Language & Usage"? LOL Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 18:33
2

I like the idea of a pop-up hint -- it is consistent with the way Stack Exchange sites notify users about many features -- but I would recommend the following refinement:

To increase awareness about the comment notifications show small tips for users the first n times that a user leaves a comment where an @-notification could be relevant.

If the user is the first person to comment on a post, or is commenting on their own post when only one other person has commented, there is no need for @ notifications (the post owner/other commenter will automatically be notified). Telling the new user about @ notifications at this point just adds extra confusion without benefit.

A little tip becomes useful when that same new user comments in a case where there won't be an automatic notification, e.g. they are commenting on their own question after two or more other users have left comments. The new user will be familiar with automatic notifications, and won't realize that their comment is going nowhere.

Less important, but still useful, is a tip for when someone is commenting on someone else's post after a third person has also commented, when the intention might be to ping that third user.

Suggested pop-up wording for the first case (commenting on your own post when two or more others have commented previously):

Whose comment are you answering? Use an @-reply to indicate who should be notified.

For comments on someone else's post when there is a possible third party:

Tip: The person who created this post will automatically be notified about your comment, but you can optionally notify one other commenter using an @-reply.


I agree on most of your "counterpoints", but would add:

Comments on questions from new users are an important means of improving question quality, by helping the new user understand the expectations of the site. However, it only works if the experienced users leaving those comments are informed when the new user has responded to their requests for more information.

Discussions between multiple commenters are less important to site quality, so tips for this situation may not be needed. Once new users are introduced to the @reply format, they can discover it's broader uses, or explore the help/meta pages about how it works.

3
  • Yes, it is an important elaboration. If tips will appear only in necessary cases, then they will be far more to the point and won't be shrugged as some sort of advertisement. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 18:00
  • I don't know, I would say you're right (about when tip is useful) but I still have to stop and think when I write a comment (and I'm here from two years). Well I'm kind of panda but if tooltip has to be then I'd make it always visible (at least for newbies). Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 21:47
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    @AdrianoRepetti A good point. In the cases where someone is writing a comment on their own post that won't notify anyone, it wouldn't hurt to remind them about it. It could be set to only display if they get ~50chars in without creating a notification on their own. Not sure about the other case, since often you only intend to notify the post author, not other commenters, and a regular reminder might get annoying.
    – AmeliaBR
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 0:23

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