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I'm new to Meta. Yet, I could not help notice the passion (can I use that word?) on questions asked here.

I saw questions going into flame, getting sometimes -125 or more, some people (no names) hinting gallows for laz ... clueless new users ...

Without going into a rant e.g ask a why question, which would be too broad and subject me to closure, I would ask the following:

  • What is the difference between a question ask here and on Stack Overflow's main site that will attract such a passion?

  • Is it an implicit rule on meta to be blunt (sometimes close to rudeness)?

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  • 16
    Start here: meta.stackoverflow.com/help/whats-meta
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 9:45
  • 35
    Then start thinking about the people who are active here on meta - think about why they are here, what they care about and most of all - about the history of it - people who have been active here for years.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 9:47
  • 21
    At this point, learning about Eternal September might bring enlightenment ;)
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 9:47
  • 2
    Hi @Oded, I read your link and I've started pondering about what they care about. Let's use an analogy, raising a kid / building characters on a kid, does it need to be antagonistic ...?
    – Andy K
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 9:50
  • 4
    Note that due to the amount of questions asked, questions on Meta have much more visibility than on Stack Overflow itself. More visibility -> more visits -> more votes.
    – Glorfindel
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 9:50
  • 7
    @AndyK - do you have kids? You never raise your voice at them? Really?
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 9:52
  • 2
    @Oded yes I do have kids. To answer your question, less often posssible for the yelling. I'd better be sarcastic. Nudging works better than yelling. Last yelling was 2 weeks after my marathon. It was awkward for a week ... like trust was broken...
    – Andy K
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 10:00
  • 3
    I agree that is works better, but we all have our breaking points... And that's the point I was making ;)
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 10:01
  • 2
    @AndyK yes - please check again tonight, and compare that with a typical 'mainsite' Stack Overflow question.
    – Glorfindel
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 10:06
  • 1
    I think the difference is that the users of meta are mainly the users that have been here longer from all of the tags on SO. It appears to me that longer standing users are more likely to use their votes and privileges, hence why votes are more utilized here
    – Sayse
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09
  • 12
    Well, you'd probably see the same kind of voting at SO, if only it didn't get 13,000 questions every day. Voting in the first year of SO was very lively, it cratered quickly after that. Attacking a community with 4 million members is always a good way to zip to -125 in a hurry. Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 10:58
  • 16
    Don't underestimate the influence of the Hot Meta Posts sidebar on the right. It's visible to every logged-in user on Stack Overflow, and anything that appears there draws a tremendous amount of attention. Every time I post a question or answer on Meta that appears there, my inbox becomes a lot noisier for a few days afterward.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 14:11
  • 1
    Hi @Glorfindel not that many views but tons of vote. Too bad the votes don't count ... but anyway who cares
    – Andy K
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 6:53
  • 3
    Voting is how the community shares its opinion. It's a little bit like a democracy (not exactly). Anyway, voting is good. The more voting, the better. It's unclear to me why you start out assuming that voting is bad, or why questions that have been downvoted are "going into flame", or why people who downvote are being "rude".
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 12:14
  • 4
    @AndyK Downvoting is not "antagonistic". On Meta the rule is to downvote if you disagree with a post.
    – DBedrenko
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 9:15

5 Answers 5

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  • People generally follow tags on the main site. If you're a Python expert why read PHP questions if you can't answer any of them? Here on Meta most people can understand, follow and therefore vote on most questions.

  • Most people reading the questions have > 125 rep and can therefore vote either way

  • There's no -1 rep loss for downvoting answers here.

There's no bluntness rule, but if you've read 10,000 "downvotes should have mandatory comments" questions and you encounter number 10,001 then there's bound to be a certain level of "could you really not have done any research whatsoever before asking this?" in the responses.

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  • Hi @robert-longson, now I have a better picture. Thanks.
    – Andy K
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 10:25
  • 11
    There's literally thousands fewer questions/updates per day here as well; it's feasible for a person to see/read most everything that happens here. This is impossible on the main site.
    – jscs
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 19:14
  • 4
    I like the irony of your last paragraph, since it doesn't look like OP spent time to find out what votes mean on meta prior asking this question :P.
    – Tom
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 11:41
  • 1
    Hi @Tom fair enough I should have done more research ... if I knew what I was looking for ... ;)
    – Andy K
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 13:05
  • 1
    @AndyK Well your were looking for votes on meta ;P. But this is nothing important to worry about now.
    – Tom
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 14:01
  • @JoshCaswell I remember that Jeff said to Shog that he will just "read meta"... look at what he has become :P
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 14:53
  • I would also add that the consequences of voting here have less impact on the OP since votes on meta do not affect reputation. Personally, when I vote on the main site, I often consider whether the post deserves the reputation gain or loss due to my vote.
    – Didier L
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 11:43
  • @DidierL you shouldn't weigh the concerns of the poster, you should way the concerns of the thousands of us who might come across the question or answer and waste our time reading or trying it. You're not being fair on the majority here. Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 11:45
  • @RobertLongson I think that's pretty much the same since reputation represents the contribution to the community.
    – Didier L
    Commented Jun 9, 2016 at 12:12
60

Questions that get downvoted to oblivion are either of these three:

  1. Questions that get asked on a weekly basis: "Make comments on downvotes mandatory" and the likes. When the Meta users read such a question, they go aww jeez.jpg and use their vote to indicate a lack of research.

  2. Questions by entitled people: "I have a problem and I demand help, but my question was closed which is unfair". No it isn't, your question was crap.

  3. Rants: if you aren't going to ask a question, but just vent about your horrible experiences on the site, nobody is going to take you seriously.

At least, that's how I see it, and how I vote on Meta.

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  • 19
    This covers most of the bases, but I also downvote feature-request that I don't think should be implemented.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 12:39
  • I agree, those 3 are definitely the worst.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 18:05
16

In comments you (OP) make the analogy of raising a child from a parents perspective to describe users here on meta being passionate. Or at least votes (did you mean voters?). Either way, there is a sort of glaring issue with that analogy - many of the users who receive downvotes or blunt responses don't participate or contribute often or even stick around for the long haul.

There is no gentle guidance available for people who are intent on bypassing many different written sources of guidance already composed and curated over many years. The only reason the phrase "RTFM" is (perhaps was) prevalent is because anything longer than that probably didn't get read.

The high rate of drive-by rants coupled with users often not caring to either be attentive to the topic they raise or even remain on the site is why some posts may seem to get a curt response.

Also, to be blunt, Stack Overflow isn't designed for everyone. Otherwise it would be Yahoo! Answers. It was targeted at "professionals and enthusiasts" and I would offer this as a better analogy - a think tank.

We are in here bouncing ideas off of each other, and in order to efficiently get to the good ideas we need to be efficient at explaining the criteria for both good and bad. Perhaps sometimes that efficiency looks excessively blunt or "passionate", but that is only because there are users here who have had years to practice this type of brevity.

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  • 1
    Hi @travis-j, thanks for your answer. I agree yet somehow deep down, it bugs me. I agree that Life is a place where you rub elbows with others, that you need that competition to help you get better, to make the most of any situations and that many of the youngblood here will not last. Yet, I hope there is another way, just something nice from time to time. Maybe I'm hopeless dreamer/naive (take your pick) but well, I'll try to be myself less blunt in my future answers, to keep a polite demeanor and if it gets too much painful, I'll wear my terminator mask & slash the hopeless noobs.
    – Andy K
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 19:01
  • damn too nice for my own sake ;)
    – Andy K
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 19:02
  • 8
    I think you will find many users on meta being nice or polite to people who are being genuine. I also believe you will find many users posting questions who are not genuinely interested in the outcome of the question or abiding by the rules of the site. Those situations tend to elicit the more stern response from meta in general. I mean, the community can kind of come down hard on those attempting to bypass the rules - have you heard of the meta effect?
    – Travis J
    Commented Jun 7, 2016 at 19:22
  • Hi @travis-j, there are tons of users who are polite and genuine in their help. That is one of the main reason I'm here and giving back or trying to give back as much as I can. Some others are coarse but well, you cannot have roses without thornes. :) And of course, you have the <strike>laz...</strike> ... <strike>wanks...</strike> clueless new user who wants everything but are not giving back. No I don't know what the meta effect is...
    – Andy K
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 6:58
  • Yahoo Answers is now a thing of the past. But we will always remember it. It was also a part of the research for Stack Overflow's design back in 2008. Commented Apr 7, 2022 at 15:54
  • @PeterMortensen - True. However, portions of Stack Exchange (History, Skeptics, World Building) are starting to resemble the quality one might expect from Yahoo! Answers. Let's hope they remain localized. Given recent events, I am curious how much of the exchange really needs to be present any longer. Perhaps once this place sells to Microsoft in 2024 or so, we will get back to a more qualitative state.
    – Travis J
    Commented Apr 7, 2022 at 21:47
6

In addition to the factor others have brought up about the types of people who frequent meta, I believe voting has a different purpose and connotation on meta.

On the main site (SO in this case, but I am more experienced over on Blender.SE for those looking at my dubious rep here) an upvote generally means something like "this is a correct, helpful, and well-written post", and a downvote being the opposite. Due to the nature of meta - i.e. discussing ideas and practices and deciding on things (design, scope, etc.) for the site - an upvote generally indicates personal agreement with the opinion/idea expressed.

The fact that meta votes do not affect reputation supports this voting philosophy by encouraging people to freely speak their mind (both in posting and voting) and present their ideas without fear of losing anything.

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  • Shog rightly points out that the votes are the same; it's only the posts that are different, and the voting behavior that naturally develops is precisely the reason those types of posts are forbidden on main sites. Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 4:09
  • 3
    @NathanTuggy Good point, but it is a fairly technical (even a bit petty IMO) difference. Whether the overarching difference is in the site or not (don't get me wrong, I agree that it is), it still boils down to a difference in voting as compared to the main site.
    – PGmath
    Commented Jun 8, 2016 at 4:19
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Because the site isn't subject to the same limitations. Opinion based questions are allowed here. Opinions automatically mean misunderstanding, straw man arguments and very passionate, sometimes nearly religious/political discussions.

Also the help site tells you that voting is different on meta. It doesn't actually mean people hate you or you will get banned, so people can vote more freely reflecting purely their opinion.

If you point out a problem, also point out a solution, that works and takes care of everything. Otherwise people will take it apart. Any change/feature that could be abused will be downvoted.

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