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Stack Overflow is beginning an experiment called Stack Overflow TV, or SOTV for short.

It will be a series of fast, smart videos for experienced programmers who want to learn a new thing. The videos will serve as a complement to Stack’s Q&A, and are intended for that community. Of course, they will be licensed under Creative Commons.

The episodes will be shot at the Stack office in New York City, in front of a live audience, and will be given the production values of an episodic TV show. Think: three steps up from a conference video, and one step below a TED talk.

As with Stack Overflow, we are “optimizing for the artifact”. This means we will do rehearsals, coaching, and retakes as necessary to get the best product.

The talks will be code-heavy and philosophy-light. After watching the talk, the viewer should know whether this is a technology they want to pursue further.

We are looking for speakers who wish to be part of the experiment. In particular, we are looking for those who have a presentation that they are accustomed to delivering, and would like to make a proper production of it.

The topic needs to be a tag you’d find on Stack Overflow or Server Fault. Docker would be great. Ember, Swift, Postgres, Go, Chef… you get the idea.

What’s in it for you? Not least, you’ll work with Joel and the SO team to rehearse, refine and record a great presentation. We are not offering speaker fees, but will cover travel expenses within reason.

Please drop a note to [email protected] if you are interested, and we’ll chat.

Questions and comments are welcome.

Update: The [email protected] email address had a permissions problem and may have bounced. Please try again.

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    And by cover travel expenses you mean proportional to the distance travelled, right? E.g. those outside of the U.S. could apply too? Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 16:29
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    Would it be possible for members of the community to weigh in on the writing of some of these presentations, without actually giving them? I'm sure that there are a lot of people here that are knowledgeable enough on a topic to write about it without being able to actually go and do the presentation, or who might be able to add value in technical editing of a script.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 16:30
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    what kind of timeline is this? next few weeks, months, over the next year? Some of us are pretty booked up, especially for volunteer work. Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 16:38
  • 362
    So Jon Skeet is going first, right?
    – gunr2171
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 19:04
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    This is probably the first question in the history of StackExchange where the OP is looking for "questions" instead of "answers"!
    – Mrchief
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 19:22
  • 197
    By all means go for it, but I'm not personally a big fan of video tutorials. Videos are really hard to "skim" to get an idea of whether or not it's something I want to spend time watching. If you do them, please make sure there is a decent text synopsis sufficient to give a (potential) viewer a good idea of the content and level. Even better would be some index points so you can skip to the part you want. Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 19:31
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    Videos are the ultimate tool of the illiterate. I don't quite like the message you're sending here. It'd be much more useful for the potential speakers to write instead, and have some sort of a long-form SO or SE sub-site where such tutorials would be welcome. Just think of the controls available when reading text. There's no ^F nor a table of contents for a video presentation. You can't copy-paste from it. It's just seems to be about the most counterproductive medium for educating a programmer. Most of us read much faster than anyone can talk, you know. Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 19:55
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    TED talks are "one step above" the production values of "an episodic TV show"? Blimey, what are you watching, 1970s Doctor Who?! Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 19:56
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    I could not agree more with @Kuba. Videos are the last resort for me when looking for canonical help. It is only more appealing as a way of socializing at conferences and have random questions answered, but as a reference material it is awkward to learn from since it is inefficient for said reasons. Sorry for spoiling the fun, but would it not be better spent time to fix the outstanding issues with SO that many of us keep bringing up? Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 20:14
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    I do wonder whether it would be a better use of resources to fix SO's existing and ever-worsening problems. Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 20:16
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    Different people learn in different ways, @Kuba. I don't find videos particularly useful myself, but I know others who see them as invaluable.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 20:26
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    @KubaOber Books are an excellent resource for in-depth exploration of a topic. What a short 5-minute video can do is explain what a particular field of study entails, why it is useful, and terminology required to find books and other resources that will facilitate further study. These abstract/broad kinds of content do not belong in SO questions and answers, though, so videos might be a nice conduit for that type of content.
    – BraedenP
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 20:38
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    I can't help thinking this is in "Your idea is bad and you should feel bad" territory. I can't think of a worse format to absorb technical information.
    – Rob Moir
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 20:43
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    If this happens, please include a transcript for those of us who would prefer plain text over a video.
    – tckmn
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 20:57
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    What a terrible waste of resources. Where did this idea come from that you can't stick to doing one thing really well, that you have to branch out into doing 100 things poorly?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 21:27

26 Answers 26

559

Why are you attaching to Stack Overflow a project that has nothing to do with what the site is about?

This is not a teaching website without minimal understanding. In fact, we emphatically do not do that. We don't do general topics. We don't do introductions. We answer questions from professionals and enthusiasts.

And what's with having it be in some official headquarters, run only by the owners? This is not a site run by a single person or organization, but a community driven website with community driven content. And it's going to be set in stone after the videos are produced, meaning no one can come in and make it better?

The only thing it seems to have in common with Stack Overflow is that it is about programming and being started by at least one person who works there. If Stack Overflow is to have a video project attached to it, it should be a Q&A session with various volunteer experts from around the world. Or video chats where people get together and work through coding problems.

You want to start a Stack Exchange TV network, fine. But don't attach it to Stack Overflow. Let it sink or swim on its own.

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    +1 exactly my thoughts. Stack Overflow should not be turned into a brand name that gets attached to unrelated projects, just to make them appear more interesting or successful than they are, or deserve to be on their own merits. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 6:35
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    Stack Overflow is about teaching. It's just a specific kind of teaching. The Stack Exchange network is even more so; lots of teaching in different ways.
    – Veedrac
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 7:11
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    so if the site is for teaching why do questions about programming get closed? " if somebody wants to learn something" and about the tv network...I wonder when the commercials will start to run every 5 min ? :)
    – Creator
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 7:33
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    The comments I'm seeing about video being a bad learning medium for programming do seem spot on. But this nonsense about "some office headquarters" - umm, Stack Exchange is a for-profit company. I'm not sure why them trying to launch new ventures which they control is so mind boggling for some people. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 14:35
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    @AdamRackis not to mention they mentioned they are looking for presenters? it is obviously not all in house.
    – Mike
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 14:49
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    Hmmm I don't get the idea of SO not being about teaching. I (and others I assume) certainly learn a lot on SO. If it is not about teaching what is it about. Maybe we just have different definitions of teaching. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 16:40
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    @stakx: That pretty much describes Stack Overflow careers, and yet that seems to be working out pretty well for everyone involved. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 18:02
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    I hate to say it but you clearly have not noticed (or are choosing to ignore) the direction that StackOverflow owners want the site to move in. They've even said they "want StackOverflow to be a site where people learn how to code", as well as be a repository for every code-related problem ever. It hasn't been a place for "answering questions from professionals and enthusiasts" for years.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 20:58
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    @Creator: Answerable, non-duplicate questions about common problems don't get closed often. It's more the duplicates, the rants, the blatant 10-second googlables and RTFMables, and the "I've never programmed before. How do i build <insert man-years-size project here>?" questions that get closed.
    – cHao
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 2:58
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    @TylerH I don't think people are ignoring anything; they are resisting and asking for a different way of seeing matters. I'd suggest a non-profit like Khan Academy might be a better brand for playing on this kind of project... where videos and tutorials are already the cornerstone... just call Salman! What people don't want to see is reckless management of the existing institutional knowledge here; there's plenty of attention, so why not focus on tending the complaints vs. risking one's strong position by disrupting and irritating the core? Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 3:18
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    I agree with this answer, too. I would probably make the first question bold and stand on its own line or so. I wonder how many times more the "question" will be reopened. The community seems to have decided to close it as off-topic here on (M)SO a couple of times now, yet moderators keep reopening it with their binding votes. :/ Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 7:41
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    I strongly agree with this Answer and would upvote it 10 times if allowed. Try your experiment sure, there are folks who learn well via video and I'm sure it will have an appreciative audience, but please do not tie it in with Stack Overflow!
    – AndyBrown
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 8:03
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit I agree that some MS products are really crappy (like IE), but they have some amazing products like Visual Studio. That's why I'm encouraging SOTV, because if you don't try, you can't succeed. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 13:55
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    "if you don't try, you can't succeed" is a really terrible reason to do anything, if that's your only reason. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 14:01
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    Do you know what Stack Exhange's mission statement is? "Make the internet a better place to get expert answers to your questions." This is an experiment trying a different approach. What if your question is "Do I find Go to be interesting and relevant enough toy career to spend the time to learn it thoroughly?"? A fifteen minute intensive overview from a Go expert could save you hours of reading and coding. You're free to prefer text to videos, but please recognize that this does have to do with SO, that others have opinions different from yours, and that this is an experiment.
    – Laura Staff
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 17:39
228

Okay, I have to ask you one simple question:

Why are you doing this, anyway?

Even though you haven't exactly elaborated on the whole point of this project, I'm assuming your goal is in these quotes:

It will be a series of fast, smart videos for experienced programmers who want to learn a new thing.

After watching the talk, the viewer should know whether this is a technology they want to pursue further.

It's time for: Meta.SO analogies, episode 1!


How teaching used to work

old classroom

(CC) BY Ryan Tyler Smith <https://www.flickr.com/...>

Disavantages:

  • Things had to be copied by hand
  • Research was slow and arduous
  • No way to quickly and efficiently find things that you need to find
  • Want to recreate a demonstration? Sorry, do it from your notes that you hopefully took

Advantages:

  • You can doodle on chalkboards when the teacher isn't there

How teaching works now

(CC) BY-NC securedgenet <https://www.flickr.com/...>

Advantages:

  • Searching for information is easy with Ctrl+F
  • Typing is a lot faster than writing
  • Cutting and pasting doesn't actually entail using scissors and a glue stick
  • Specifically made for programmers, for Skeet's sake!

Disadvantages:

  • You can't annoy people by making screeching noises with your fingernails on a chalkboard

So how is that even helpful, aside from the colorful pictures you can look at?

If you want to help programmers "learn a new thing" and "know whether this is a technology they want to pursue further," maybe you should avoid doing it in a way that makes exploring, experimenting, and discovering new things that much harder!

A video is like an old classroom with a chalkboard and quill pens. You can't quickly find what specifically you're interested in (sorry, watch the whole thing), you can't try code samples (too bad for you, copy them by hand), and you're forced to go at a pace that you may or (more likely) may not enjoy. I mean, you even have to travel just to make these things? Who does that any more?

So please, please, please, please don't bring technology back to the Stone Age. I'm actually tempted to close this as off-topic: Questions on Stack Overflow should only be about programming. I'm reminded of Dilbert's manager, who lacks even a basic understanding of what programming is. If you want to appeal to programmers, please do so in a medium that's usable for us.

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    It sounds like these productions aren't meant to be tutorials or documentation - "the viewer should know whether this is a technology they want to pursue further." Meaning this isn't teaching specifically, but rather an introduction of some sorts. They should probably include a transcript so that those who want can search through the code etc, and maybe links to specific sections of the video, but I don't think video form is a bad idea for those who learn visually and through auditory means, or those who just want an introduction to a technology
    – Daniel
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 2:03
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    +1 for railing against the production of videos, and using a picture of "teaching future state" that contains a room full of large screen flat panels. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 4:15
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    Typing is a lot faster than writing - I don't know about that one, I find getting my ideas down is quicker on paper, but writing prose is faster on the keyboard. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 6:41
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    You can't annoy people by making screeching noises with your fingernails on a chalkboard -> yiiikes, I have just heard that noise in me!!! Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 7:31
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    >Typing is a lot faster than writing < depending what you write it might not be faster without experience, (Math f.e a lot of unusual characters , draw some graphs). Not everyone is typing with 10 fingers. For the rest: agreed. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 7:51
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    I don't know? Could you maybe put your answer in the form of a video? I find those much easier to digest! ;) Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 14:37
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    People learn in different ways. Some learn better by reading, others by hearing, by seeing, or by doing. A text transcript would cover the first, an audio recording the second, a video component the third, and the end-user's own attempted application the fourth. This idea doesn't take us back to the "technology stone age." It presents information so everyone can benefit from it in whatever way works best for them.
    – Rakuen42
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 15:58
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    I don't like how this answer uses "You" when the author means "I". Because I learn tons from videos. Channel 9, MS Build events, YouTube, (television?) I heard Khan Academy is quite successful. I find it odd how people can say they don't learn from someone actually showing them. But I work with a really bright physics post-grad who hates videos, so I think this is a personal thing. Don't like videos? This product won't be for you. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 15:58
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    Please don't assume you speak for all of us. Some of us enjoy educational videos.
    – Cypher
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 16:17
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    Doorknob, I like how you've presented this answer. Kudos to that. At the same time, some people do learn better through watching a video, as Luke said in his comment. It's a bad idea to assume everyone learns the same way. I learn best by watching someone do something, then do it myself, personally. Videos are good for that. Keep an open mind on learning styles, friend. :)
    – Kendra
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 16:20
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    @lpapp Often. We even have an optional subscription for people who do learn better that way, which I do. I'm not saying I can't learn through text, but it always clicks easier for me to actually see someone doing something. It is not just a case of "blind people" and it's wrong to assume such. Everyone learns differently. Do you honestly believe it's impossible for someone to learn better through video, out of curiosity?
    – Kendra
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 16:31
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    @lpapp (cont.) Some people just have to see it happen to understand. Others can just read and get it. Heck, I know people who can see a picture of something, just a plain old picture, and immediately know how to fix things. People are unique, and as such, there are different learning styles. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else. As I said in my first comment, keep an open mind on learning styles. If you don't find videos efficient for you, don't watch them. But why punish those of us who do?
    – Kendra
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 16:42
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    I don't know, I very much disagree with your "advantages" and "disadvantages" lists. I took the majority of my college classes the "old fashioned" way, in a lecture hall. I found it to be extremely effective. I've also tried to take a few with online video-based "lectures". These absolutely sucked—I cannot learn anything this way. I have tried everything to make it work, after my university went to teaching all undergraduate math and physics classes this way—two of my worst subjects. But it just doesn't. I really can't understand how one can learn from a video. You just need a personal touch.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 4:39
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    @lpapp: Most of the people aren't speaking against it. Most of the people who are speaking are speaking against it. But that is a completely different thing from most people speaking against it. Because people who would speak for it are already spoken for, in the OP. Why should they feel the need to say more? If the OP already says something they agree with, they can simply speak their agreement with an upvote. Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 9:04
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    @lpapp Wait, so "I learn better from videos than reading text" isn't a valid argument in a discussion about different mediums for learning things? In that case: When I was young I learned best when someone told me things in German (may be because it's my native tongue), so clearly we should close english SO and all use a German site. I mean if it works best for me it obviously must be universally true?
    – Voo
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 14:53
142

Alternate/Additional Suggestion for SOTV

First off, this answer is not really about your original idea. Your original idea prompted some thoughts that went in a different direction, and I wanted to post it as a suggestion for consideration in the future.

I watch twitch.tv streams a lot (people playing video games), and was thinking that Stack Exchange could have a lot of success with something similar.

I envision watching a programmer browsing SO and answering questions within a specific tag, while keeping up an educational and entertaining commentary on what they're doing and why.

Added bonus for having it streamed real-time with a chat like twitch does, so the person streaming can interact with viewers.

Benefits:

  • Promotes your core product
  • Supports your core product by providing some great quality answers
  • Scales well with other Stack Exchange sites
  • It's a unique idea. There are tons of video tutorials already out there, but I don't think I've ever seen programmers streaming programming.
  • You would probably get more viewers for videos by providing entertainment first and education second, rather than vise versa.
  • You'll probably build up a small library of great video clips demonstrating many different educational things, such as how to use SO, how to program in X, how to use technology Y, etc and therefore contribute to your original idea
  • Its a cheap experiment to setup if you want to try the live streaming - just create a twitch.tv account. You could even incentivize volunteers with ad/viewcount based profits
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    You know what else this idea of yours can be used for? Creating smaller videos that can be replayed, and putting them somewhere that new users that are confused and want to learn better how to use SO can watch them. Livestreams for education on the subjects, other videos for use on the site, and the main idea of videos exploring general technologies.
    – Kendra
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 21:35
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    Awesome- Pretend you have an extra 5 upvotes from me. :)
    – Kendra
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 21:39
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    or just use youtube. Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 21:43
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    As much as I'd love to dare-I-say mentor new users better, I doubt that people who won't read a short help article will watch a video. (There's also a higher potential for a language barrier there, since web pages can be translated and videos ... not so much.) (cc @Kendra)
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 21:52
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    Also wanted to chime in and say that I rarely ever watch videos for educational purposes. As someone said in above comments, you cannot easily skim through them to get to the good and relevant parts. However, I am intrigued by that "infotainment" idea. Over at YouTube is a channel called "Numberphile" that also has a sibling show called "Computerphile". I really enjoy their videos. If you manage to get "rockstar" and "legendary" computer scientists to talk about interesting and amusing IT stuff, I will be the first subscriber. Also tongue-in-cheek commentary or some news format sounds fine.
    – tiguchi
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 22:48
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    I gotta be honest - this sounds absolutely dreadful. But then, I don't get Twitch either. Anyway, if you like this idea, check out the Stack Overflow rap.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 3, 2014 at 23:10
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    @Shog9 To be perfectly honest, I didn't get the attraction to watching other people play video games at first either until I started watching some streams that friends recommended. I'd definitely be interested in watching some of the better-known or intelligent programmers in my favorite tags theorize about and solve problems on SO in an interactive stream :)
    – Rachel
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 2:58
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    +1 I like this idea. Basically a Twitch.TV for programmers?
    – Jeff
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 15:20
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    I would watch Jon Skeet answering questions Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 16:56
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    @rachel yeah! Jon Skeet's channel = 99.9% of all traffic :P
    – Jeff
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 17:17
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    Personally, I particularly don't see how this would work out. My experience browsing SO is basically "WTF is this? DV, CV. WTF is that? DV, CV. Oh look, here's a specimen of the coveted endangered species Decentus Questiens, too bad it is a duplicate of another hundred questions." Well, maybe other users have a better SO browsing experience that they'd like to share. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 1:07
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    @NobuGames this was actually a suggestion that had been brought up - I like the idea of having devs (sometimes even our own) and answer questions submitted by the community. Make it more casual, more community involved, while still serving a lot of the purposes we've come up with here.
    – Jon Chan Staff
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 4:05
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    This is a completely serious question… How do you find time in the day to sit and watch people play video games? I mean, I get how you can do it once or twice, maybe on a weekend when you have nothing much else going on. But I have those weekends fairly infrequently. And there's absolutely no way that I can find an extra hour in my day that I can spend watching online videos. Who knows, maybe I'm just a weirdo. I still find it almost impossible to believe the statistics that Americans watch something like 4–5 hours of TV a day. I don't even own a TV.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 4:45
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    That sounds like a great idea. I definitely see myself watching this if it's good enough, meaning if the person doing it really is an expert who knows a lot if answers right away and is entertaining on top of that. I imagine those people to be kind of rare, but if there is someone who would do it, I'm all for it! I'd even subscribe to that twitch channel to give him some money.
    – LuLeBe
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 15:41
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    @AnnaLear It would be nice if the 'small help article' were better signposted. I've been here for a few years now and I've never seen the fabled help articles, nor do I know how to find them if I wanted to read them. Have you ever considered that people don't read them because they can't find them?
    – Pharap
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 5:17
91

Some of the responses that I've read here have unequivocally reinforced something that I've been concerned about for quite some time:

We have over-trained some of you, and that's preventing the exploration of new ideas.

In 2008, Stack Overflow was a new idea, and a great idea - there was nothing that existed where:

  • I could actually edit things to improve them

  • I didn't have to scroll through 40 pages of 'me too' just to find a broken link that everyone was raving about

  • Questions I asked didn't get side tracked (or outright hijacked) with tangentially related bike shed painting

  • The best stuff actually rose to the top! - and that was magic. Why hadn't anyone thought of that before?

Through the years, we've realized that some things tend to break our platform, like pure mindless fun. We also realized that our platform tends to break other things like library recommendations that aren't narrowly-scoped - when everyone has voted and gone home, the artifacts they leave don't always age well.

That doesn't make those things bad, it just means that we can't be everything that every programmer would want in a single place. That doesn't mean we throw our hands up and just say 'oh well, we'll never have those things', it means we look for opportunities to do new things instead.

Let me talk about something I'm quite proud of, our spam protection system. It's not perfect, but it does keep between 15 to 20 thousand turds out of our pool every day. Want to know what that's built on? Redis, mostly, and the boiled brains of the ones we managed to catch red-handed. Why is that important?

I put off learning how Redis worked until finally seeing someone do some really interesting thing with hash sets on a 15 minute tech talk interview. The learning curve was much shorter than I imagined, and I immediately loved it once diving in. That 15 minutes was well worth it. I don't normally watch tech talks unless it's about something I've been considering.

If we're going to try something new, something that might just help one or three of you make a more educated decision on where you're going to spend the limited bandwidth you have for trying out new toys, what harm are we doing? How are we negatively affecting the brand and community that we've established? These are something outside of normal Q&A, something that many of you have been wanting to see us do. This doesn't change how we do one thing very well, this is a whole different thing.

This could be a thing that people will find very useful. If it can save someone from downloading and trying something only to think an hour later "I'd like that hour of my life back, please", then why not? It's worth a shot, and if we don't continue to look for ways that we can be even more relevant to people that write code for a living in ways that don't break what we've gotten right, well :)

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    You have not over-trained us. You have well-trained us. This is off-topic for SO. If you want to create this site, and when it's ready link from SO to a beta to try it, go for it. It's not any more off-topic than the careers site, so great. But if you bring it to the community to discuss it, inside the site dedicated to discussing the community, then this is the response you're going to get. It's off-topic. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 14:46
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    @Erick - would it help if you thought of this as a new feature of Stack Overflow, rather than some random website Joel Spolsky is creating for fun? Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 14:50
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    It just means SO has gotten too big a monster for the "owners" to tame
    – prusswan
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 16:58
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    This started as a community of programmers that worked together to solve problems and provide great answers that were easy to find. Then things changed. Suddenly we were told things had to fit a specific scope and definition for the site. Even though we might want to ask the community here a question that they would be best qualified to answer, we suddenly had to go elsewhere because the question didn't fit specific rules. Some users left, and those that remained had a higher concentration of rule-enforcers. And now you're suddenly surprised that Stack Exchange is subject to these rules too?
    – Rachel
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 19:02
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    That said, I think it would greatly help if you added more specifics to the question itself. For example, I was picturing hour long videos instead of 15 minute videos. And tutorials for introductions to languages/technologies, rather than brief comprehensive overviews. With such a vague description, everyone has a different idea of what is being proposed here, so I think it would greatly help if more specific details were provided
    – Rachel
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 19:03
  • Has there been any progress on this yet?
    – apaul
    Commented Feb 13, 2015 at 4:13
  • 1
    It's interesting, of course, that recorded videos fail on the advantages mentioned. If I see a typo, I can't submit a correction. If I learn faster or slower than the presenter is speaking, or I want to see whether this video shows significant amount of code, or demos a complex application, I have to scroll through thousands of frames of video. There won't be competition between multiple answers on the same topic where the best can get voted to the top, rather only videos officially filmed at SO headquarters will exist. Basically, the proposal is for Yahoo Answers TV. But even YA! votes
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Feb 13, 2015 at 5:28
38

I really don't see the point.

Stack Overflow is not a place where you can discuss about how to code. Stack Overflow is not a place where you can discuss about what technology/framework/language to choose. Stack Overflow is not a place where you can discuss at all. Anything opinion-based is literally banned from this website. If you're new to a framework and have a general question about it, Stack Overflow is not the place for you.

Stack Overflow is about asking specific questions and getting specific answers. Stack Overflow is a reference for all programming issues you could have. It's the top 10 results when you're googling for an error message you don't understand.

So please, tell me how is Stack Overflow even remotely related to video tutorials?? I don't get it.

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    I can't believe all the narrow minds here. The people who run stack overflow (no, I mean actually run it, who collect a salary) are clearly trying to do some bigger things than what SO normally does. And why shouldn't they? They have probably the biggest, smartest audience of devs in the world: why not try to parlay that into something more. This may or may not be the best idea, but it's quite silly to say that SO shouldn't do X, because SO doesn't usually do X. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 17:33
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    What about chat, the third(?) place (meta being the second) - aren't discussions allowed in chat? This could be the fourth place. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 18:10
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    @AdamRackis Sorry, just trying to find some consistency in there. The FAQ of Stackoverflow currently says: Don't ask about Product or service recommendations or comparisons, while the goal of those videos is described as: the viewer should know whether this is a technology they want to pursue further. If I ask this on Stackoverflow my question will be closed either as too broad or opinion based within seconds. I don't see any valid reason I should upvote this feature. Stackoverflow is a Q/A site for specific developer issues, not a place you start learning X or Y. That's just unrelated.
    – ken2k
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 18:47
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    @ken2k I would agree completely if they said they planned to do questions like this. If they're doing a programming based video to introduce people to technologies and not putting it on the main sight, but instead just giving it the name Stack Overflow TV to show the correlation of programming, I don't see as big an issue. I would argue... Different media, different rules. Chat vs. questions, for instance.
    – Kendra
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 19:01
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    If I ask this on Stackoverflow my question will be closed - It's pretty standard for the SE team to use MSO to announce new features and happenings that they're working on. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 19:19
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    @AdamRackis I was talking about the content of the videos, not the announcement itself. Pretty normal to talk about that here indeed.
    – ken2k
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 19:22
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    @ken2k - in that case you're making an even sillier argument. SE team is trying to do something NEW. Something they haven't done before. I don't know if these videos are a bad idea, but saying the videos should have to have content that comports with existing SO standards is kind of senseless, don't you think? Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 19:23
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    @Adam Because the most successful companies stick to doing one or two things really well, lest they lose their competitive edge. Resources are finite; new projects shouldn't be started just because they sound cool. Especially when your core brand (Stack Overflow) is festering. If the SE team has extra time, there are a lot more important things that they could be working on. The first rule of good management is knowing when to say "no". You have to decide what your mission is and focus on doing that. ken2k's point is that this seems to contradict SE's core mission.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 4:49
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    @AdamRackis: Nobody is telling them not to do videos. Yes, some people have pointed out the disadvantages in videos as a medium for teaching, but general backlash is about Stack abusing their position to bend their own rules for them. They could have used their blog and ads to promote it. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 6:06
  • @Cody - I'm glad the people at Google didn't have that mentality when someone pitched the idea of Android. I don't know how much the SO brand is festering, but I also don't think the resources they're putting on this (some video production equipment / people) are really taking away from cleanup up SO: Joel has plenty of devs on payroll at SE. Anything not getting fixed is likely for reasons other than lacking resources. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 13:54
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    @Adam: It's not about a couple of technical bugs; it's about a fundamental problem with SO that is well-documented on meta lately. It's all well and good saying "we have good devs here, why not use them?" but when you're in the middle of a brain drain with your experts leaving in hordes due to fundamental misclarity about SO's core mission, well, that doesn't seem like the right time to further confound the problem. Also I think you vastly underestimate the effort required to implement this idea. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 15:29
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit - I wasn't aware SO's devs were leaving. That probably is a problem if true. What I was trying to say is that the types of problems facing SO are incredibly hard. The hard part of fixing them is figuring out what to do, and how to address them. I don't think this idea prevents that, and if they ever do figure out HOW to keep the low quality crap off SO, I assume they have the devs to implement it. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 16:06
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit Where did you hear that? I'd be interested in hearing what former devs at SE say about why they left
    – Rachel
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 18:48
  • @Rachel: I'm not going to reproduce here the contents of the largest meta.SE threads all year. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 18:51
  • @Rachel: meta.stackexchange.com Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 19:28
34

The following line is what made me interested in this project:

the viewer should know whether this is a technology they want to pursue further.

I don't work for a traditional software company, and we have a wide range of experience in my department. We are often experimenting with new technology, and it has become a regular task to demo a technology for the group and decide whether we should use it in upcoming or active projects.

Providing a comprehensive demo of a technology without becoming an expert in it first can be difficult. Stringing together pieces of tutorials from the web and assembling a quick and dirty use-case often leaves out crucial features or limitations.

If the Stack Overflow TV provided the following, I think it could be very useful to a wide audience:

  • Demonstrate the strengths and limitations of the technology
  • Provide simple, real world use-cases
  • Compare the technology to its competition
  • Remain Objective (as much as possible)

Remaining objective will likely be one of the greatest challenges to this project, as the presenters obviously believe in what they are presenting. I've seen some concern in the other comments and answers regarding SO providing recommendations for products. If this is done objectively enough, I believe that viewers will understand that it's not a recommendation or endorsement, rather an informational "quick-start".

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    I feel people are assuming videos will be primarily "how do I add 2 numbers together", or some code example. If videos are conceptual, or a broad demo of a technology, I can really get behind that.
    – gunr2171
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 2:22
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    I think the other biggest objection is that Stack Overflow is a Q&A site, and my question would be deleted. That's what Stack Overflow is now, but why is change so terrible? They are planning to add a feature to "serve as a complement to Stack’s Q&A". Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 3:08
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    And (if it wasn't clear), I do agree with you. Though interestingly I would think the topics should be more about Programmers.SE, rather than Stack Overflow (concepts rather than specific questions).
    – gunr2171
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 12:15
26

As long as you put these out on a regular basis then it could be interesting.

I'm unlikely to ever watch them, but I much prefer text to podcasts or videos - simply due to time.

However there are many people who are different, and prefer videos and/or podcasts. The issue with your current podcast is that it isn't regular, and it isn't very compelling.

If you can produce videos on a regular basis (start out at one/month for now, then ramp up as you schedule forward) then you may end up with content that will attract an audience you don't currently cater to.

If your release schedule is irregular, though, or you don't make the videos reasonably compelling, then this is likely to become another albatross around your neck. Something you have to do, but no longer want to do because it's not gaining the traction/audience you were hoping. Not unlike your podcast.

I wish you luck! I hope you find what you are searching for with this endeavor.

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There are two axes of criticism here:

  1. Stack Overflow is again using "in-band" communication leverage of its Q&A meta-channel--which is trusted on good faith to be spiritually belonging to the volunteer community that built quite a lot of it--to do promotion for projects that are tangents. Such posts would be looked on harshly if non-SE-employees posted their own similar ideas.

  2. If Stack Overflow is considered a system which has finite resources to spend on addressing issues--expanding into new areas is not what the online MMO Q&A game addicts want right now. They want those resources applied to get the problems in the game patched up.

(It's funny that the sidebar advertisements promoting the role playing stuff remind me of how this really is very, very similar to trying to manage a D&D campaign. You want to get everyone to play nice, to keep people from walking away from the table. I think the stakes are higher here as I consider it education and a piece of planetary-scale problem solving, but games educate too in a way.)

I think #1 is foundational. In that vein, I have re-entered an off-topic close-vote in protest on this basis. Of course I'm not blind and know you run the site and can delete any vote I raise or post I make. But...I'll point out that you do control the ad space...and you have a blog. No one will get on your back any more than the "get a goob at Stack Exchange" ads that you don't charge yourself for (well, in a sense you might, if you had paid ads you're not running). But worth it for more clicks and less backlash.

Posting in-band here isn't fitting. There are other voices saying: "we are giving you feedback that you're encroaching on the part of the space that was promised to the community to manage issues of the game they bought into." Please think again the agreements of those coming to play at a D&D table, and the risks of appearing unfair to the point that people want to walk away. You benefit much more when people say "that was a good game, we'll be back next week!" vs. knocking all the pieces off the table and saying "YOU, SIR, ARE A TYRANT!"

(Though that can make for its own funny melodrama. Depends how zen you want to get. I'm trying to stay in character, a little.)

As for #2, that's fuzzy. I wouldn't like people telling me what I should or cannot do with my money and time; outside of pre-existing agreements, where I should live up to my promises. If someone told me I was a programmer and shouldn't make videos I'd inform them quickly that I left an engineering job in Seattle and went to attend film school in LA in 2005. Video isn't perfect for all things, but until we get our Diamond Age primers we're stuck with video, Ajax-Rube-Goldberg, and some Bret Victor stuff (which is often well-shared by means of video, for anyone doubting the value of the medium.)

So I don't feel as strongly that anyone has a right to mandate that SE doesn't use its investment dollars to expand; that's outside the "implied contract". I can only share a personal feeling that you may take or leave. That feeling comes from the observation that growing pains are overwhelming, yet I have not perceived the kind of "continuous advancement" from the site tech there once was. It's a spooky kind of Craigslist feeling, almost like the original developers died a long time ago--and now maintenance zombies run it, because nothing is changing at a speed one would call impressive.

I love unicoins and hats as much as the next person, but why haven't there been more trials of strongly supported feature-requests? I'll still plug mine as deserving at least a shot to see if it can make a statistical dent.

Pre-flight screening checklist for first/early posts--adaptively pick three items, tune with metrics

If you would just promote your video projects and women in technology ideas through the ad space, and announce new features at a rate that everyone felt the wheels of progress were turning...I don't think anyone will care if you make videos or buy solid gold computer desks. Yet the game has some implicit rules that the players feel you are breaking, and some of us are speaking up about it.

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    Perhaps we need to create videos explaining our feature requests and bug reports? I think a 5 minute short of the Stack Overflow homepage with periodic refreshing would be sufficient to make the point.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 4:54
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    I guess the other criticism is the overloading of the Stack Overflow name. Personally I don't have much criticism of that, because S.E. have created a successful brand that they naturally want to use for other initiatives. But it does leave us needing to differentiate clearly between Stack Overflow the site and Stack Overflow the name. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 6:52
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    Addendum to #1: Asking a non-question on here as a SE employee is especially ill-received if the OP then leaves for two days. There was virtually no interaction of OP with any of the responses except for the initial "oops, we failed to set up a mail address, fixed now" edit. We can clearly see how the "ask questions as an answer and we'll respond in the comments" model fails in this case, as it turns into "express your issues and hope anybody from SE ever reads them". And as Ganesh says, issue #3 is an unclear distinction between SO and side projects, potentially confusing even more new users.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 7:09
  • That was really well said. I think the argument for using MSO for this stuff, instead of the blog, is that the community can give feedback more easily here. An answer with 100+ upvotes stands out a lot more than a blog comment. Maybe I'm just more easy going in my old-age 30's - I take it for granted that the people who run this place can hijack MSO once in awhile for stuff like this, while I can't. I would never expect any different. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 13:49
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    @AdamRackis Well...if that were the angle, then it should be framed as a question like: "We live in a video era and have been wondering...how might StackOverflow incorporate video features into the site?" vs. "We have made a plan, and are doing it, and here is an ad for the thing we are doing--so e-mail us now." We don't know what reactions would be to the former because that is not how they've approached these new initiatives that people are complaining about. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 13:54
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    @HostileFork - fair. Or even "We live in a video era, and we have the following plan for incorporating .... What do you all think?" They probably could improve some of the soft skills the SE people have when they make these posts. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 13:57
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    @AdamRackis Yup. Or put their proposal as an answer to the question which can be voted independently from the question, and peer to answers that others might offer. (We cannot compare--for instance--@Rachel's counter-proposal popularity to theirs because they tied their plan in with the "question".) When you have a free labor force working for your success (and success of the Internet/world, hopefully), it does pay off to take steps to avoid alienating them. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 14:02
  • Regarding your first point...meta is still the place for the community to discuss and manage its issues. Posts like this one are relatively infrequent and don't prevent anyone from beginning or participating in any other community-started thread. Discussions started by SE staff can and do coexist with discussions started by users. You all are plenty happy to see staff here responding to your bugs and feature requests; why are you so hostile when we want to share new ideas with you?
    – Laura Staff
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 18:02
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    @Laura Science "proved" that women are not inferior to men, rather less differentiated. Hence the majority of problem users in moderation (disproportionate to usage by gender) are males. Am I allowed to post on Meta about my project to mentor low-bell-curve men? I'm joking--but the point is that things become tyrannical if you can do them and others cannot. I have cool projects too, but I can't just post them here and not have them closed. It's about fairness. Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 18:21
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    @Laura To add to the comment by HostileFork above, regarding your "You all are plenty happy to see staff here responding to your bugs and feature requests" - please do browse questions with the "feature-request" tag. Most of them have no official response whatsoever. The hostility might partially come from the fact that people feel completely ignored if highly upvoted proposals do not seem to grab your attention, but loosely SO-related side-projects do.
    – BartoszKP
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 20:24
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    @HostileFork you may be interested in the meta discussion on the use of meta for this type of announcement.
    – Amicable
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 20:27
  • @Laura but how can you even call this a "discussion started by SE staff"? OP posted this "question" and stuck around just long enough to respond to the first two comments and fix the mail address, then left for three days, then posted _one_(!) comment about the reasoning behind not giving the speakers money (which is, btw, helpful). The mentoring post was a discussion because SE staff actually interacted with the responses and cleared up many things that were unclear. Just like the mentoring post, this one would certainly benefit a lot from clearing things up, but nobody from SE does so.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 11:38
5

Why don't you make videos on the subjects covered on meta?

So we watch the videos, follow charismatic speeches and use Stack Overflow better. Stack Overflow's problem is that so many users have a very vague idea about how to ask questions, answer and vote.

Your business is not teaching programming: that's what your customers (we) do. Your business is to organize people into something more sophisticated than a mob.

5

Stack Overflow is two things for me:

  • A community of very talented experts, offering valuable assistance
  • A website offering most of the answers of my daily Google questions

So as a member of this community what would I have loved to see in videos?

  • Community related things
    • Interviews of some of theses great guys.
      • Who are they?
      • Why are they doing that?
      • What did they learn doing it?
      • What makes a question worth a response for them?
      • Are they part of the entity known as Jon Skeet?
    • What's new on Stack Overflow or on Stack Exchange?
      • What are the trends on meta?
      • Things we've fixed
      • Result of elections
      • Under the stack: meet technicians, executives, etc
  • Newbies related stuff, I'm pretty sure they will look at videos more often than read the warnings and FAQ
    • How to write good questions
    • How to search in previous answers
    • How to find gain reputation fast with great questions and great answers
    • Common misbehaviours
    • Anything that could help people to become part of the community.

Your proposal is about technologies: "should I invest some time in this tech", etc. This is a very tiny aspect of what a So-TV could do for Stack overflow. And it's something really hard to do. If I had enough time to make a perfect technology videos "X versus Y" or "10 big ideas to start X in the right way", with drawings, animations, great ideas, some jokes, stuff for newbies and tricks for experts... I would become a youtuber and hope some retributions on the millions of fans. But usually I do not have this amount of time and motivation, and I peak one or two questions like I would play a game.

My point here is not that everybody will react this way, but finding the great video teachers, the ones which make videos session worth a play, means building a new part of the community, I'm pretty sure theses videos stars will not be the same individuals as the current gurus. It will be a long quest. with a lot of bad stuff maybe.

So if you invest some time on video, I think you should certainly start with the basics and experiment technology-sessions as a very small subset of other subjects.

4

There are sure a lot of people criticizing the idea in these answers! And to be honest, I'm not convinced either. I guess the big question for me is, why do you want to do this? Is it:

  • To make more money (a perfectly valid reason for a for-profit company)
  • Because you think it will complement SO Q&A in a particular way
  • You want to try a new idea, like you did when starting SO at the beginning?

If you gave me a good reason why you want to start SO TV, I would be more willing to get on board with the idea and have a better idea of how SO Q&A and SO TV will eventually relate.

3

I see a lot of comments along the lines of "Intros aren't what SO is about." There are tons of people every day who ask a question on SO or programmers.SE for the first time thinking that's precisely what we're about, and they are rebuffed. I think it would be great to have a convenient place to point those people, and I for one welcome the idea. Everyone's a newbie in some areas, and videos are one of the best ways to introduce a topic, even if they are a poor reference.

I think it's a mistake about the speaking fees, though. You should consider exceptions for well-known authorities: Rich Hickey talking about Clojure, Dries Buytaert on Drupal, Simon Peyton Jones on Haskell, Linus Torvalds on git, Larry Wall on Perl, etc. You get a better feel for the philosophy behind a technology from its creator than from any other source. To be honest, on those kinds of topics, the quality of production and content is going to have to be pretty high to get me to look on SOTV for an introduction instead of a lecture straight from the source.

I think volunteer speakers are better suited for smaller, more general topics, something like "Immutability: what is it good for?" That's the kind of thing I would look to SOTV for, especially if it saves me from filtering out the cruft, and reliably points me toward more in-depth resources.

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    I don't know, I think "you can't ask that question here; go watch these videos instead" is still going to be counted by most people as a rebuff. If introducing a chat room feature didn't solve the problem of people wanting to ask off-topic questions, then I fail to see how Stack Overflow TV will.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 4:55
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    I would pay money to hear Linus give a talk on GIT. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 13:39
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    @AdamRackis youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8
    – tacaswell
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 18:07
  • The creator of a technology is certainly not the best impartial critic of it. I would prefer some independant experts on docker, mongodb or other fuzzing trends. -- but that is the hard part, choosing who should introduce a technology on SO, this is an editorial choice.
    – regilero
    Commented Sep 7, 2014 at 9:20
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    It has been said before that you could point them to the various SO chats. There newbies can interact with experts, free of charge. You can even copy/paste code.
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 9:14
3

There is only one set of videos that we need that would really apply for Stack Overflow.

Title: How to ask a technical question

Discusses the common issues with how to get to the point of writing a good question. Your own debugging, research, distilling the examples and the language of the text. It could show best-case examples from the commonly closed questions.

These would then by joined with:

Title: How to effectively answer a technical question

Discusses how to elicit information to the salient bits and then how to best convey that. It would in many ways be the next step of the first video. The questioner in the first video would be the encouraged to refine their question further and the answers would be distilled by third parties into canonical answers.

Both of these are extremely relevant on Stack Overflow and to many Stack Exchange sites. But the general idea of discussing new technology wouldn't really be appropriate here as many people above me have stated with excellent reasons.

2

What's the end goal of the experiment, SOTV or SETV? Can we foresee a Seasoned Advice episode? Something like "Pumpkin muffins by SAJ14SAJ"..?

Of course it has to start somewhere, and where else but the head site of the network?
I agree with all that raised the "get hands dirty" approach: reading explanations and dealing with bare code are a must, and a programming video may be clumsy for something that's pure text.

But, for high end discussions and conceptual/operational/life-experience presentations, yes, please, 100k+'s videos à la TED talks would be prime time.
What about "Pekka 웃: Being a programmer on an Atlantic island"?
Eight thousand views per day!


Comparing videos to the Stone Age may seem bad, but it's not. People passing knowledge to other people was done orally and face to face well before it went all papyrus and then all interwebs. Video on education is another step away from Gutenberg's middle ages. TV and Internet are 20th century technologies that together allow us to connect with our fellow humans in ancient ways. Audiovisuals never reached all of its educational potential; only taking a step further on the last few years with cameras everywhere and easy YouTube for a lot many of us.

1

Sometimes you're tired after a day of work, and you just want to sit back, relax, and watch something. I watch scientific lectures a lot, and they are much more enjoyable than reading the papers they are based on. The last 50+ years show that watching TV is one of homo sapiens'es most favourite things to do.

Some examples I would find interesting to watch:

  • A helloworld example with Hadoop and some cloud. Show what can be built in 1 day and $10.

  • Comparing 2 or more best-of-breed products side by side, such as 2 popular IDEs.

  • In general, I would find anything about the relationships of several different technologies to each other, and to typical design problems, more interesting than overviews focused on just one technology. For example: the relationship Java — Hibernate — MySQL I would prefer to watching something about just "Hibernate" (which I might have no idea about).

Folks are adamant that this site is not about recommendations, period. And yet, recommendations are one of the site's de facto most useful features.

0

This sounds like a great idea! Stack Overflow is a website specifically focused on answering programming questions. It is not the right format for tutorials. Creating a new service for short, focused, video tutorials would be really valuable.

It is well known that people learn in different ways. Some people learn easily by reading written tutorials, others prefer to hear or watch someone else do it. When you combine the senses, there's a higher chance that the information will be retained. Personally, I am a paid subscriber to many websites which offer screencasts and video tutorials. I find them extremely helpful in learning new subjects. I rarely seek out written tutorials on subjects that I know nothing about, or have no interest in. However, I would much rather watch and hear someone teach me something. Also, some people experience impediments (such as dyslexia, vision loss) which make it difficult to long articles/tutorials.

-1

I like the idea, but also like the comments/critique on making the experiment more useful . So perhaps:

  • Speaker/subject matter expert does the talk
  • After the talk, a "hangout" (or whatever, basically a live) Q&A session where the speaker answers questions from the audience are also recorded as part of the show.

I think this would enhance "...the viewer should know whether this is a technology they want to pursue further." and further SO as a place of learning, teaching, helping, solving.

This suggestion isn't "original", in fact, it's a "copy" of "developer conferences" e.g. Google I/O where: Presentation -> Q & A -> recorded -> made publicly available.

Hope this helps...

-1

Notwithstanding the arguments about whether video is a good medium for a tutorial, I think Stack Overflow would be redundant here - by being just one more place for tutorials instead of losing its core strength as a place of

  • Troubleshooting
  • Research
  • Problem solving

A tutorial has an aim to arouse interest in the subject, and I think that is the basic intention revealed here by the OP.

Here is my direct take on that one:

  • If someone already knows Stack Overflow, he isn't at a stage to need this kind of guidance.
  • If someone doesn't know Stack Overflow, he already has other sources that can tell him whether to pursue a subject / area or not.

So why this? And why on Stack Overflow?

Suggestion:

Maybe, make a list of YouTube video URLs that can serve as a quick-start or a for dummies kind of guide to each subject. They can complement Q & A that are too verbose for certain problems. Far better & cost-effective than those introductory tutorials by experts.

P.S.:

Notwithstanding everything I voiced, and considering this is adopted in practice, I still don't understand the need for in-person presentations like TED. Stack Overflow being a torch-bearer of remote work, there must be better way to leverage expertise across the globe without physically being together - unless this is some kind of conference imparting specialized technology knowledge, which I am sure this is not, at present.

So chat/present -> record -> upload -> shortlist -> publish would be a far better workflow.

-2

Unlike nearly everyone else, I like the idea. Why?

It Teaches Stuff

While it may be a departure from the traditional Q&A, it still accomplishes an intended goal - teaching. It may be a great way for some programmers to learn about new concepts, technologies, etc. To those that don't learn visually, don't watch the videos, but it could be great for people that do.

For those that say it dilutes the Q&A idea, past experiments not using Q&A haven't caused the apocalypse (See: Careers 2.0)

For those that say it is unrelated to the aim of the website, consider that it still teaches. Regardless of the format, why not just do it, so that people can learn stuff - the goal of this site. It's not like it is replacing Q&A - what's wrong with more ways to learn?

-2

Unless it's a joke (what month is it? April?), I'd vote yes for this. And I'd suggest features to be added in this.

Videos can be relevant to Stack Overflow

We can put them in tag wikis. That's because tag wikis are the place where people look if they want more information about the tag. And if the information is in the form of a video, it'll be better. Another feature we can put would be to post multiple videos in a single tag and upvote/downvote them as per the quality and relevance of the video to the tag.

Even if you won't implement my ideas, I'd still vote yes for the video feature :-) Go for it!!!

-2

Why are people saying this is such a bad idea? Perhaps it might not be something you personally are interested in but so what, a lot of other people could be.

I think there is a fairly simple solution if you disagree with the idea, don't contribute to it and don't participate.

As long as it doesn't affect the current free community service you get, who cares?

-4

I agree with a lot of what has been said here, and would like to make a single point if I may:

As long as the video integration doesn't get in the way of what SO was created for, go for it.

If I can ignore this feature as easy as I can consume it, no harm done.

-4

Great effort... You people thought of it, and I think it's great (period).

People always say: try not to bash into the walls too much. Do not try new things. Don't invest in innovations. But who cares?

And if you had obeyed such sort of pessimistic critics before, then Stack Overflow wouldn't have been there in the first place.

So: go for it. Great effort.

The videos will be like TED videos, and it's awesome that guys who help people find answers over at Stack Overflow will get to interact with the same people (what's more awesome is that Stack Overflow is ready to compensate the travel fare.)

-4

Yes, leverage technology, of course! Humanize this site a bit. After all, most of us are people and not binary-consuming keyboard jockeys. It makes sense to branch out based on what Stack Overflow does best -- answer questions. Because it is a vast repository for any inquisitive fact-finders of all walks of life, providing answers that can be consumed by the most people is how it will continually expand its usefulness and value. Talk about building confidence in the answers; real experts are sharing their knowledge directly through the camera, not through some semi-anonymous post.

Remember, you don't have to watch these videos, but videos illustrate and build confidence in ways simple words appearing on a screen can never do. Videos reinforce much more effectively, because it uses visuals, time, and sound -- it's how our brains are wired best to absorb as much knowledge as fast as possible. If you're just using Stack Overflow as a "snippet snatcher" and you think these videos will be a waste of time, don't watch them -- save the site bandwidth for someone who will.

If providing answers is Stack Overflow's main mission, then proliferating useful knowledge is its business and that means expanding the channels and diversifying how it can deliver those answers to more and be even more useful. People learn and absorb material differently, and we as a community could offer to type and edit the transcripts and there will be volunteers who will be happy, and thankful to be involved.

Videos are a great way to dig deeper into subject material and relate on a person-to-person level. They instill confidence because they're open and not anonymous, but also, they could make learning more difficult material easier for dumbies like myself. Lastly, it could be fun and encourage more involvement from the younger generations. Some don't like change, but did video really kill the radio star or did that radio star just decide he didn't want to show up on TV?

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    If a radio star is a radio star because he likes radio and not TV then, yes, video killed him. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 13:54
  • That is a suicide. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 14:07
  • No, it is not. If you want to be ridiculous about it then it's more like genocide: altering the environment to a degree that a species goes extinct. The radio star didn't decide to be a radio star: they were born with the inclination not to be a video star. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 14:10
  • Sorry, I never wanted to be ridiculous, I was apparently just born that way. By not seriously considering improving and adding methods we use to help people learn (the goal of providing answers is to learn) seems ridiculous to me.Let's just agree to disagree about it, keeping an open mind to new ways to reach people because brains are wired differently and people learn differently. That is an admirable goal Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 17:41
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    Perhaps but not at any cost Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 18:00
  • Btw, using your analogy above: we're altering the environment, yes, we're altering it by EXPANDING it. Giving your "species" more room to thrive, more tools to survive. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 18:01
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    Then the final sentence in your answer is irrelevant to the discussion, and should be removed. Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 18:30
-7

I guess it is against the Stack Exchange philosophy. Which is, from my understanding, about Question -> Answers. YouTube is already there for showing video.


Update: from my comments:

The Stack Exchange Network is better than any forum because of its implementation design, the format. So then the format of that video / layout / tagging should be as good as Stack Exchange is and much better than YouTube. Whether it is good content in those videos or bad it is not so important - people vote and then bad content will disappear. The format/design/user experience/searchability is important.

I'm an end user of Stack Exchange. And for me it is question-answers site, where only one answer is marked as right + votes. That's it. Whatever "philosophy" it follows officially. So it has nothing to do with teaching. I do not see it. A know good site for teaching, like Coursera or similar. But if one already decide that it is good idea, well - we will see. I'm ready to like or dislike it.

For example: Google is not YouTube, and YouTube is not Google. YouTube sucks compared to Google search. It is nearly impossible to find something using YouTube's search. So I use Google search to find stuff on YouTube. Well, Stack Exchange may tag a YouTube video to make it better. No need to store video on its own servers. So YouTube is just a storage with bad search. Google does search. Stack Exchange does tagging. Maybe it will work out, then we can search by tags - that is a question of categorizing and filtering then. And that should come with subtitles to make it possible to search by content. Or let Google do it over the Stack Exchange like it does now.

Stack Exchange without Google is zero... Well, 0.2, not zero. So far, so Stack Exchange + video should be searchable by text and tags I guess. And there is much stuff to improve in Stack Exchange itself (I wish it would be even better)... before jumping to video.

Speaking about improvements: For example, once I did an experiment: I did downvote without a reason for some guy's post (the post itself was good enough). And then everyone start downvoting that post, so that it goes from for ++ to --. People tend to follow someone's idea without even thinking. That should be improved. People should not be able to vote up or down without a reasonable/comment (at least as anonymous). Imagine if you have a good video for 'experienced developers' and then one newcomer with high scores downvotes it, because he found that it is too complicated for him or just do it for fun.

For me even this conversation is not "format", because there is no "right answer". It looks like like a general messy forum.

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    "You shouldn't create new things because old things already exist" is not a very compelling argument. Also, I don't see any reason why these videos couldn't be shared on YouTube, just like you can find TED talks there now. The philosophies of SE have always been "increase the signal to noise ratio" and "make the Internet better." Q&A is just one way of doing those things. There are others.
    – Bill the Lizard Mod
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 15:03
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    Stack Ex philosophy is about building a robust, amazing knowledge base; you have a myopic view of life if you think that can/should only ever mean Q&A. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 15:17
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    Also youtube has so many bad developers showing their bad skills and earning views and upvotes for it ( not all of them ofc ). If i were to make a mysql tutorial with php and would be using mysql_* function which are deprecated, i'd be the king of the hill.
    – deW1
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 16:28
  • The SE is better than any forum because of its implementation design, the format. So then the format of that video / layout / tagging should be as good as SE is and much better than YouTube. Whether it is good content in those video or bad it is not do important - people vote then bad content will disappear. The format/design/ux/searchability is important.
    – ses
    Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 17:42
  • I think StackEx could be an arbiter of quality and it could create a great learning resource. Commented Sep 4, 2014 at 23:50
  • I'm end user of SE. And for me it is question answers, where only one answer is marked as right + votes. That's it. What ever "philosophy" it follows officially. So it has nothing todo with teaching. I do not see it. A know good sites for teaching, like coursera or similar. But if one already decide that it is good idea, well - will see. I'm ready to like or dislike it.
    – ses
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 1:13
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    Just cause the irony amuses me: (1) If Google had decided not to build a search engine because it had already been done (which it had), there would be no Google. (2) That same Google...you know, the search engine company? Owns a little pretty-far-from-search-related video sharing site called YouTube. Branching out seems to have worked OK for them.
    – cHao
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 3:18
  • And SOTV isn't SO, and SO isn't SOTV. It's not like they're going to be putting videos on here. It's effectively its own project, just with SO's name attached.
    – cHao
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 3:25
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    Well Google is not YouTube, and YT is not G. Y sucks comparing to Google search. It is nearly impossible to find something using YT search. So I use G search to find stuff on YT Well SE may tagging YT video to make it better. No need to store video on its own servers. So the YT just a storage with bad search. Google does Search. SE does tagging. Maybe it will work out.
    – ses
    Commented Sep 5, 2014 at 3:32
  • But... but... SO doesn't get any cash from Youtube videos! And indeed that's what it all boils down to. Nothing is stopping anyone from making such videos today and uploading them to Youtube. It seems blatantly obvious that SO just wants a piece of the advertising cash, by "inventing" something that was already invented over ten years ago.
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 9:20
-13

Best-case scenario:

I think this is an amazing idea. It'll (no doubt) enhance/solidify the Stack Overflow brand (not as if Stack Overflow actually NEEDS it).

If anything, it just means Stack Overflow is "A BIG DEAL"; and every time someone is linked to an embedded Stack Overflow video, they'll be reminded of the brand, and how pervasive it is as a technological resource/powerhouse. It could also intrigue current high-school/college students to use the site.

Worst-case scenario:

Stack Overflow might even get bought out by a larger company, and begin charging for Stack Overflow resource material. And then... other sites will rise up to counter-act the newly implemented pay/pay-as-you-go model.

SOtv sounds pretty cool, but...

I don't want what happened to Business of Software (BoS) to happen to Stack Overflow. Where BoS used to be FREE!!!!!

But now, NO! You have to PAY to watch those videos. (Hear that Joel? CHANGE THAT!!!)

In retrospect:

I understand everybody has to eat, but if Stack Overflow were to do this, in a non "f*ck you" kind of way... I can see nothing bad coming from it. Just make it FREE!!!

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    What is BoS?​​​
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 10:33
  • from the site: "Practical learning from the best in the field: Speakers at previous editions have included Dharmesh Shah (Hubspot), Seth Godin, Joel Spolsky (Stack Exchange), Clayton Christensen, Alexis Ohanian (Reddit) Geoffrey Moore, Scott Farquhar (Atlassian), Eric Ries, Kathy Sierra (JavaRanch), Jason Fried (37 Signals)" ........ url: businessofsoftware.org ....... some videos: businessofsoftware.org/2014/08/… Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 18:24

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