As I'm starting to review suggested edits, I noticed, as would anyone else, the following popup that occurs requesting a reason for the edit rejection. However, when I click Reject and Edit, the popup does not appear. Is this for a reason? I am rejecting the edit just the same as when using simply Reject, so it seems to me it would be desirable to offer feedback using this same popup behavior.
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19There is no need for that popup. When you click "reject" you want to tell the editor why their edit is bad. But when you select "reject and edit", then your edit tells the editor how the proper edit looks like.– TomCommented Jun 12, 2021 at 20:27
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22@Tom It's not as though there is just one "correct" edit where the original editor can see, "oh, that's what I should have done". Viewing the "proper" edit does not offer specific feedback about why their edit was rejected, which would inform future editing.– C. PeckCommented Jun 12, 2021 at 20:30
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5huh, not a bad request - I usually work around this by drafting a "response" edit message, but I highly doubt editors read them. Plus it feels like communicating via git commits.– 0ValtCommented Jun 12, 2021 at 20:42
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14I don't really agree with this. The only reason you'd be opting to "Reject and Improve" an edit is because it offered no improvement whatsoever. Thus, the edit you ended up submitting is all the guidance that any prospective editor needs about what they should have done instead. I don't see the merit in adding an additional click to this process.– Cody Gray ModCommented Jun 13, 2021 at 4:53
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9@CodyGray it's not "Reject and Improve", it's "Reject and Edit", so my edit may (likely?) bear no resemblance to the original edit... anyway, I maintain that the new edit itself very often doesn't provide the same feedback as the rejection reason.– C. PeckCommented Jun 13, 2021 at 12:14
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2If you really need to send a message to the original editor, then you can simply "Reject" and then edit it outside the review queue. That may be appropriate on rare occasions (spam/vandalism being one) but, as others have said, I don't see it being a useful feature in most cases.– Adrian MoleCommented Jun 13, 2021 at 16:51
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1Doesn't the reject reason in the previous editor's edit suggestion list say something along the lines of "This edit has been rejected, see the revision history for what should've been changed"? That is the gist of why the edit is rejected IMO. "You did(n't) do something that was(n't) supposed to happen, check what the new edit is to learn".– AdriaanCommented Jun 13, 2021 at 19:44
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5@AdrianMole if you straight out reject the edit you then may have to wait for additional rejections until you can edit it again. I can't see too many people doing that.– Dale KCommented Jun 13, 2021 at 20:14
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4Re my previous comment, back in 2015 the message the author of the rejected edit got upon a "reject and edit" was: "This edit did not correct critical issues with the post - view the revision history to see what should have been changed." I can't see newer ones, as I haven't suggested anything since 2016 or so, but this message captures the meaning quite well in my opinion. How would one of the canned reasons be more specific than this?– AdriaanCommented Jun 13, 2021 at 20:24
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@Adriaan - I think canned ones won't make a difference, true. As I mentioned to Braiam on their answer, oftentimes a reviewer (me at least) wants to not only provide feedback for the edit author but also educate them. Meta guidelines, external references, etc (something like what Peter does with their edits)– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 17:26
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1It would probably help to include an example so people could see where the differences between the suggested edit and the one you made instead need an explanation.– BSMPCommented Jun 18, 2021 at 19:53
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2I will admit the lack of an ability to indicate that an edit is incomplete or inappropriate is one reason I don’t “reject and edit” and instead just reject the edit entirely. Incomplete edits that ignore 20-30 grammatical in an existing contribution mistakes are simply not helpful– Security HoundCommented Jun 30, 2021 at 16:49
4 Answers
I support this proposal. If I ever suggest an edit, and I am told that my edit did not fix the critical issues with the post, then I'd like to know exactly what those critical issues to fix are.
Sometimes it isn't too obvious what mistakes were in the post, looking from the revision history, and I'd rather get some written feedback from the editor. If you argue that a canonical feedback for "reject and edit" is useless, then why do we even have the popup in the first place? I've learnt a lot about editing just from those canonical reject reasons, so if an edit of mine was rejected I would think, "Ok, don't do these types of edits. ".
Aditionally, "reject and edit" sends a different message to the editor than just "reject". If I simply reject an edit, I'm saying that the post's meaning was changed, or that the edit had no use. But if I reject and edit, I am telling the editor that they not only made a bad edit, but they also failed to identify and correct issues with the post, which every editor should be able to do.
I feel like the best way to implement this would be to open a popup with a custom reject reason when you click "reject and edit". The custom reject reason would be optional, but it would be possible for a reviewer to submit some feedback as to what they missed in the post.
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2or at lead provide a button to allow the reviewer to choose if they want to give custom feedback - anything would be better than communicating via edit summaries– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 17:02
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1Sometimes I reject edits because I want to start from the author’s original text and do a more complete fix. There may be nothing wrong with the suggested edit other than it prevents me from making the change I think is better. If the suggested edit was extensive, comparing the revisions gives more information than any length-limited or canned comment. I’m not going to spend time explaining why I wanted to start from the original text when it should be obvious from the changes I made. I’ll just pick the vaguest canned comment.– ColleenVCommented Jun 30, 2021 at 15:43
Rejecting an edit with your own edit implicitly tells the previous editor "you dun goofed". There's no need for additional context, because what exactly is the previous editor going to do with it? You've already overwritten their bad edit anyway - if they want to see how they goofed, they should be diffing their bad edit against your good one, not referring to some overly-simplified canned reasons.
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35"what exactly is the previous editor going to do with it?" -- They will learn why their specific edit was rejected and, hopefully, not make the same mistake in the future when editing other posts. If "you dun goofed" is sufficient feedback for rejected edits, I'm confused what value the popup offers in the first place.– C. PeckCommented Jun 13, 2021 at 11:18
If you want to provide guidance about the rejection, how is an example of what they should've done not the best case scenario? Rejection reasons are useful only when the post isn't improved and can't be improved. Rejection with edit guides the editor with a example of what is wrong with the post and how to fix it, making the user a better editor. The rejection reasons just tells you what is wrong with the edit, but not how can you make better edits.
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3Slightly off topic but regarding this: "Rejection reasons are useful only when the post isn't improved and can't be improved." -- I'd choose "reject" when the edit is clearly wrong and I can't think of a substantive edit. Should I only do so if if I am certain the edit cannot possibly be improved?– C. PeckCommented Jun 14, 2021 at 16:10
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@C.Peck of course. How can you improve the post by editing if you don't know how you can do so?– BraiamCommented Jun 14, 2021 at 19:42
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More often than not, there is a FAQ on meta one would like to link to for the education of the editor, or a link to the dictionary definition, or to a grammar/syntax/semantics reference. We can't in the current setup unless we put all this either A. In the edit summary, B. In a comment on the post. Both options are subpar and are a misuse of features intended for something else.– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 17:08
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@OlegValter there's so much you can do with putting giant walls of text in front of users. A simple "if you see something that can be improved, click edit" is enough.– BraiamCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 18:25
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@Braiam I am not talking about putting giant walls anywhere - I am talking about providing actionable feedback for those who care to learn. Yes, there are those, contrary to what one might think. I've seen those with my own eyes. I really fail to see why we, reviewers, should communicate with those people via deliberate misuse of features.– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 19:03
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@OlegValter there's no actionable feedback to be had. "You've done goof" like the other answer says and "see here, this is how it's done" like my answer said. There's no redressing. Just a teaching moment.– BraiamCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 22:09
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@Braiam you are free to believe that. That doesn't mean there is no demand for giving actionable feedback. If you think there is none, I can only tell you that you are wrong - there is, a lot. Giving specific feedback is sometimes needed, providing more than just your own take on edit helps not only the post, but the editor whose edit got rejected as well.– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 22:25
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@OlegValter the actionable feedback was already given, with plenty of guidance. More won't do good. That's not something I believe, we've learned that on SO. Try ask Tim Post, Shog, Jon or any old school CM.– BraiamCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 23:10
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@Braiam I prefer not to make arguments based on authority. There's nothing really actionable with the current system: "your edit got rejected, and someone overrode it with theirs". That's all it conveys, nothing else. Whereas it could point to discussions, explanations of why things the way there are, or contain some personalized editors that still care.– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 23:39
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@OlegValter is not authority, it's experience. Experience that many of us were afraid SE would lose when most of them went away. Also, what you hope the editor which edit was rejected to do? Again, the actionable feedback was given before the edit was submitted, it wasn't correctly followed.– BraiamCommented Jun 16, 2021 at 12:56
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@Braiam if this is actionable feedback before submitting, I am the British queen. The only things editor gets are ambiguous, and if they want to learn, they have to do exactly what you say should not be done - they have to go to meta, find a FAQ/Q&A buried somewhere under the abyss of posts and read a wall of text. What's more, it is not all black&white either - there are specific errors in judgement of good editors that we, as reviewers, can help alleviate.– 0ValtCommented Jun 18, 2021 at 20:03
You could, in this case, briefly describe the motivation for your edit in your edit comment. This allows anyone reviewing the edit trail to understand what you were trying to correct about the edit you rejected.
Adriaan points out in a comment that the reject reason points folks to the review history, so there is some chance they would see the comment.
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Communicating with the editor through edit comments is not that helpful. I mean, what's the chance they'll see it?– 10 RepCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 16:49
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1I think you misunderstood my comment :) I find leaving reviewer comments in edit summaries a misuse of the feature - it is like communicating with collaborators via commit messages. It's not what these things are for.– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 17:12
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1@OlegValter It reminds me of when I used to chat with my friends through google docs by sharing the document :). Like this, that wasn't the way it was intended to be used. Also, is it even possible to leave a edit summary? I thought it would get overwrited...– 10 RepCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 17:18
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1@10Rep yeah, we did a similar thing at one point :) Re:summary - it's possible - I just take the edit summary and append my comments in square brackets in the hopes that the author notices the rejection and is curious enough to go into the post history (!) and read the comment– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 17:22
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1@OlegValter I just tried reject and edit, and I saw the edit summary I left. But the main problem is that the feedback doesn't suit what an edit summary is supposed to look like. Out of context someone might get confused...– 10 RepCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 17:27
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1@10Rep - yeah, exactly why I support this request :) It's a workaround misusing a feature not intended to be used like that– 0ValtCommented Jun 15, 2021 at 17:29